Gentlemen and ladies, or, more properly, Captains,
I arrived to the subject discussion late since I was on a cruise to the Florida Keys for the last two weeks. Nevertheless, I dutifully read all the old mail and wish to offer my sage advice.
First: I own a CD 30, cutter rig, although I have never owned the "Yankee" (After all, I am a descendent of Confederate veterans) . When I acquired the boat, it was outfitted with a 135%, or perhaps 140%, genny.
Second: I agree with Larry DeMers about tacking but offer the observation that is not the issue for REAL CRUISERS.
Third: The real issue for REAL CRUISERS is cruising in all its aspects which includes anchoring, unanchoring, and carrying a dinghy on deck when you are at sea.
Fourth: Which brings up the issue of foredeck clutter.
I believe that the CD 30 is too small a boat to be rigged as a cutter for REAL CRUISERS (not to be confused with day sailers).
Fifth: With the stay, the boom and the stay sail, anchoring becomes a real chore, even with a windlass. Moreover, carrying any significant sized dink on deck becomes almost impossible. (I have a Caribe 8 1/2' RIB, which is perhaps the world's best dink when being used as a dink. However, it requires a pretty big deck to accomodate it).
Sixth: My CD 30, sailed as a sloop with the 135% (or 140%) genny is clearly the fastest sailboat (proportionately) in the world. I sailed from Fort Lauderdale to West Palm Beach in East winds of 15 to 20 knots and seas of 3-6 feet, in six and one quarter (6 1/4) hours. The distance (measured by GPS) is 41 nautical miles. That is an average of 6.5 knots (confirmed by GPS) over a 41 mile course. Lest anyone believe I was aided by the Gulf Stream, I was never more than a mile from shore, therefore not affected by the Stream, which was experiencing 9 to 10 foot seas.
Seventh: Can you top that?
Eighth: The foregoing is true! However, I do have some very good lies which I am certainly willing to toss into the pot!
Will
"Jambalaya"
CD 30
whildenp@flinet.com
CD30, cutter or sloop? late entry
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
sloopjohnl
Re: CD30, cutter or sloop? late entry
regarding item "fourth" - i wouldn't tell Lin and Larry Pardey that!!!
will parker wrote: Gentlemen and ladies, or, more properly, Captains,
I arrived to the subject discussion late since I was on a cruise to the Florida Keys for the last two weeks. Nevertheless, I dutifully read all the old mail and wish to offer my sage advice.
First: I own a CD 30, cutter rig, although I have never owned the "Yankee" (After all, I am a descendent of Confederate veterans) . When I acquired the boat, it was outfitted with a 135%, or perhaps 140%, genny.
Second: I agree with Larry DeMers about tacking but offer the observation that is not the issue for REAL CRUISERS.
Third: The real issue for REAL CRUISERS is cruising in all its aspects which includes anchoring, unanchoring, and carrying a dinghy on deck when you are at sea.
Fourth: Which brings up the issue of foredeck clutter.
I believe that the CD 30 is too small a boat to be rigged as a cutter for REAL CRUISERS (not to be confused with day sailers).
Fifth: With the stay, the boom and the stay sail, anchoring becomes a real chore, even with a windlass. Moreover, carrying any significant sized dink on deck becomes almost impossible. (I have a Caribe 8 1/2' RIB, which is perhaps the world's best dink when being used as a dink. However, it requires a pretty big deck to accomodate it).
Sixth: My CD 30, sailed as a sloop with the 135% (or 140%) genny is clearly the fastest sailboat (proportionately) in the world. I sailed from Fort Lauderdale to West Palm Beach in East winds of 15 to 20 knots and seas of 3-6 feet, in six and one quarter (6 1/4) hours. The distance (measured by GPS) is 41 nautical miles. That is an average of 6.5 knots (confirmed by GPS) over a 41 mile course. Lest anyone believe I was aided by the Gulf Stream, I was never more than a mile from shore, therefore not affected by the Stream, which was experiencing 9 to 10 foot seas.
Seventh: Can you top that?
Eighth: The foregoing is true! However, I do have some very good lies which I am certainly willing to toss into the pot!
Will
"Jambalaya"
CD 30
-
Larry DeMers
Re: CD30, cutter or sloop? late entry
Will,
Don't know that I agree totally with the fourth point you try to make. The cutter rig *was designed* for cruisers..not day sailors. Day Sailors get upset at the narrow slot and inconvenience of wiggling that big genoa thru there, but a cruiser has his eye on a different set of standards. One of safety and versatility in all conditions, since you are out there exposed to the elements for a greater length of time. That is where the cutter rig shines my friend. With the reefed main and staysail only up, the boat looses it's heavy windward helm of a few minutes earlier, due to being overcanvased. She sits up better and is a happier feeling boat. You have also centered the sail area inboard more which balances the boat better in higher winds and is safer in that you do not have to go out on the bow to work your sails, assuming that the genoa is struck due to the winds. Will, how do you handle high winds above your genoas range?
We anchor out 2-3 times per weekend, for around 30 weekends a year. We have a staysail. Are you telling me that my foredeck is too crowded and I should not be doing this? Hah! Try adding a RIB to the foredeck to see crowded!
We have an Avon 9 ft.Roll-Away dinghy which we deflate and pop into a wood cradle located over the companionway hatch. There is a sunbrella tarp that we cover it with, as well as two sets of straps that hold the whole package to the cradle, which is itself anchored to the seahood frame...and it fits nice and neatly under the boom, and away from the mast. In short, we get to keep our staysail (which is quite literally why I bought the Cape Dory 30 in the first place), stow the dinghy out of the water for crossings and long passages, and have a clear deck to walk on and work on at all times.
A RIB stowed on the foredeck would have to be launched before you can even anchor wouldn't it?
What's with the 'Real Cruisers' caste you bring up? I think things are all relative. I am sure that if Lyn and Larry Pardey were the measurement standard for 'Real Cruisers' we would all fall short. In turn, if Lyn and Larry were then compared to the Hiscocks or Miles Smeeton or Shackelton, or any of a dozen who have gone before us, they would also fall short...maybe.
I think the point where your compromises dictated your choices is when the RIB found it's way to the foredeck. That is not the ideal place for a rigid dinghy on any 30 fter, as it bears the brunt of a lot of water and wind, as well as create a real traffic jam when trying to get around it for sailwork should that be needed (like removing your genoa and putting up storm sails, since you don't have the staysail stay to use for this), and anchoring in particular.
Lastly, I think I can vouch for what you say about speed in the CD30. We did a 102 mile crossing this summer in 14.5 hrs..a tad over 7kts. avg. This was in 7-9 fters coming over our starboard port quarter and we flew the reefed main and 140% genoa only (staysail would have blanketed the genoa so was stowed).
Glad you had an apparently great trip. I would suggest rethinking that dink on the bow and struck staysail however.
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
Don't know that I agree totally with the fourth point you try to make. The cutter rig *was designed* for cruisers..not day sailors. Day Sailors get upset at the narrow slot and inconvenience of wiggling that big genoa thru there, but a cruiser has his eye on a different set of standards. One of safety and versatility in all conditions, since you are out there exposed to the elements for a greater length of time. That is where the cutter rig shines my friend. With the reefed main and staysail only up, the boat looses it's heavy windward helm of a few minutes earlier, due to being overcanvased. She sits up better and is a happier feeling boat. You have also centered the sail area inboard more which balances the boat better in higher winds and is safer in that you do not have to go out on the bow to work your sails, assuming that the genoa is struck due to the winds. Will, how do you handle high winds above your genoas range?
We anchor out 2-3 times per weekend, for around 30 weekends a year. We have a staysail. Are you telling me that my foredeck is too crowded and I should not be doing this? Hah! Try adding a RIB to the foredeck to see crowded!
We have an Avon 9 ft.Roll-Away dinghy which we deflate and pop into a wood cradle located over the companionway hatch. There is a sunbrella tarp that we cover it with, as well as two sets of straps that hold the whole package to the cradle, which is itself anchored to the seahood frame...and it fits nice and neatly under the boom, and away from the mast. In short, we get to keep our staysail (which is quite literally why I bought the Cape Dory 30 in the first place), stow the dinghy out of the water for crossings and long passages, and have a clear deck to walk on and work on at all times.
A RIB stowed on the foredeck would have to be launched before you can even anchor wouldn't it?
What's with the 'Real Cruisers' caste you bring up? I think things are all relative. I am sure that if Lyn and Larry Pardey were the measurement standard for 'Real Cruisers' we would all fall short. In turn, if Lyn and Larry were then compared to the Hiscocks or Miles Smeeton or Shackelton, or any of a dozen who have gone before us, they would also fall short...maybe.
I think the point where your compromises dictated your choices is when the RIB found it's way to the foredeck. That is not the ideal place for a rigid dinghy on any 30 fter, as it bears the brunt of a lot of water and wind, as well as create a real traffic jam when trying to get around it for sailwork should that be needed (like removing your genoa and putting up storm sails, since you don't have the staysail stay to use for this), and anchoring in particular.
Lastly, I think I can vouch for what you say about speed in the CD30. We did a 102 mile crossing this summer in 14.5 hrs..a tad over 7kts. avg. This was in 7-9 fters coming over our starboard port quarter and we flew the reefed main and 140% genoa only (staysail would have blanketed the genoa so was stowed).
Glad you had an apparently great trip. I would suggest rethinking that dink on the bow and struck staysail however.
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
will parker wrote: Gentlemen and ladies, or, more properly, Captains,
I arrived to the subject discussion late since I was on a cruise to the Florida Keys for the last two weeks. Nevertheless, I dutifully read all the old mail and wish to offer my sage advice.
First: I own a CD 30, cutter rig, although I have never owned the "Yankee" (After all, I am a descendent of Confederate veterans) . When I acquired the boat, it was outfitted with a 135%, or perhaps 140%, genny.
Second: I agree with Larry DeMers about tacking but offer the observation that is not the issue for REAL CRUISERS.
Third: The real issue for REAL CRUISERS is cruising in all its aspects which includes anchoring, unanchoring, and carrying a dinghy on deck when you are at sea.
Fourth: Which brings up the issue of foredeck clutter.
I believe that the CD 30 is too small a boat to be rigged as a cutter for REAL CRUISERS (not to be confused with day sailers).
Fifth: With the stay, the boom and the stay sail, anchoring becomes a real chore, even with a windlass. Moreover, carrying any significant sized dink on deck becomes almost impossible. (I have a Caribe 8 1/2' RIB, which is perhaps the world's best dink when being used as a dink. However, it requires a pretty big deck to accomodate it).
Sixth: My CD 30, sailed as a sloop with the 135% (or 140%) genny is clearly the fastest sailboat (proportionately) in the world. I sailed from Fort Lauderdale to West Palm Beach in East winds of 15 to 20 knots and seas of 3-6 feet, in six and one quarter (6 1/4) hours. The distance (measured by GPS) is 41 nautical miles. That is an average of 6.5 knots (confirmed by GPS) over a 41 mile course. Lest anyone believe I was aided by the Gulf Stream, I was never more than a mile from shore, therefore not affected by the Stream, which was experiencing 9 to 10 foot seas.
Seventh: Can you top that?
Eighth: The foregoing is true! However, I do have some very good lies which I am certainly willing to toss into the pot!
Will
"Jambalaya"
CD 30
demers@sgi.com
-
D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: Definition of a "Cutter"....
Captains,
The reference is "The American Heritage Dictionary. Definition is: "Nautical. a. A single-masted, fore-and-aft-rigged sailing vessel with two or more headsails and a mast set somewhat farther aft than that on a sloop".
A Cape Dory 30 Cutter meets this definition. Please note, there is NO mention as to which rig is BETTER. It doesn't talk about slots, foredeck clutter or ANYTHING else. It is simply a different sail plan than the merids of others available. I am sure that some would think the junk rig is the best thing since sliced bread, but to each his own opinion.
And, we all KNOW that a Cape Dory 30 Cutter CAN be competitive at sea, DON'T we? FWIW.........your HUMBLE servant......
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA #1
The reference is "The American Heritage Dictionary. Definition is: "Nautical. a. A single-masted, fore-and-aft-rigged sailing vessel with two or more headsails and a mast set somewhat farther aft than that on a sloop".
A Cape Dory 30 Cutter meets this definition. Please note, there is NO mention as to which rig is BETTER. It doesn't talk about slots, foredeck clutter or ANYTHING else. It is simply a different sail plan than the merids of others available. I am sure that some would think the junk rig is the best thing since sliced bread, but to each his own opinion.
And, we all KNOW that a Cape Dory 30 Cutter CAN be competitive at sea, DON'T we? FWIW.........your HUMBLE servant......
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30C
CDSOA #1
-
Mark Yashinsky
Re: Definition of a "CD Cutter"???
Based on an earlier thread (CD30 Cutter to Sloop), I thought that CD "cutters" were really double headed sloops??? Was this ever finalized and agreed on???
-
Bill
Re: Definition of a "CD Cutter"???
From the FWIW department, I have a brochure from Edey & Duff on the SS Crocker designed Stonehorse. In the sales brochure they say "There are many conventions used to distinguish between the two (sloop vs cutter). The one we subscribe to says that a cutter, of no matter how many headsails has less than 50% of her measured sail area in the mainsail."
Just FWIW.
Fair winds and Happy Holidays
Bill
S/V Rhapsody (the Original)
cd25d@rhapsodysails.com
Just FWIW.
Fair winds and Happy Holidays
Bill
S/V Rhapsody (the Original)
Mark Yashinsky wrote: Based on an earlier thread (CD30 Cutter to Sloop), I thought that CD "cutters" were really double headed sloops??? Was this ever finalized and agreed on???
cd25d@rhapsodysails.com
-
Olli Wendelin
Re: CD30, cutter or sloop? late entry
I too just got back in town. Been working on ships in Pearl Harbor. Not as nice as sailing, but at least the weather is pleasant.
Definitions, even nautical ones, do seem to change with time. Cutters were used in the Revolution and before. The reference was to size, armament, and having a fore & aft rig.
In many older cutters the staysail attached at the bow. The yankee attached at the bowsprit, which might be 4 times longer (relative) than those on Cape Dorys. Working sail was what you carried in light air (no genoa). As wind increased the headsails were reefed, not replaced. For an example take a look at the Pardy's boats.
The CD cutters do not have running backstays. These would be prudent if using the staysail in storm conditions.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil
Definitions, even nautical ones, do seem to change with time. Cutters were used in the Revolution and before. The reference was to size, armament, and having a fore & aft rig.
In many older cutters the staysail attached at the bow. The yankee attached at the bowsprit, which might be 4 times longer (relative) than those on Cape Dorys. Working sail was what you carried in light air (no genoa). As wind increased the headsails were reefed, not replaced. For an example take a look at the Pardy's boats.
The CD cutters do not have running backstays. These would be prudent if using the staysail in storm conditions.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil
-
will parker
Re: CD30, cutter or sloop? late entry
Larry,
All seriousness aside,
its hard to disagree with anything you say since you base your conclusions on facts, logic and common sense; whereas, as you can see I base mine on creation of controversy. (I am a recovering lawyer).
Therefore if you would take the trouble to argue without thinking, you would see the validity of all my points. Nevertheless, since I am mostly a singlehander, (my wife can't swim, is afraid of water, and concerned about drowning), sailing my boat as a cutter, including aanchoring, etc., is a real challenge. Unfortunately, I chose the wrong dinghy for the CD30. I really should have got a fully inflatable(and therefore fully deflatable) dink, even if it isn't the best dink. Indeed, carrying this RIB on the foredeck, even without the staysail, is too difficult. I have been carrying it behind the mast with the bow tube deflated, but that really creates a visibility problem. I think I'm going to trade down on the dink.
With regard to reefing down the jib, I haven't experienced winds over 25 knots in this boat yet. So I haven't really had to face the challenge, although I have reefed the jib just to see if it would be a problem. It takes a lot of wind to get this boat overpowered.
Thanks.
Will
"Jambalaya"
whildenp@flinet.com
All seriousness aside,
its hard to disagree with anything you say since you base your conclusions on facts, logic and common sense; whereas, as you can see I base mine on creation of controversy. (I am a recovering lawyer).
Therefore if you would take the trouble to argue without thinking, you would see the validity of all my points. Nevertheless, since I am mostly a singlehander, (my wife can't swim, is afraid of water, and concerned about drowning), sailing my boat as a cutter, including aanchoring, etc., is a real challenge. Unfortunately, I chose the wrong dinghy for the CD30. I really should have got a fully inflatable(and therefore fully deflatable) dink, even if it isn't the best dink. Indeed, carrying this RIB on the foredeck, even without the staysail, is too difficult. I have been carrying it behind the mast with the bow tube deflated, but that really creates a visibility problem. I think I'm going to trade down on the dink.
With regard to reefing down the jib, I haven't experienced winds over 25 knots in this boat yet. So I haven't really had to face the challenge, although I have reefed the jib just to see if it would be a problem. It takes a lot of wind to get this boat overpowered.
Thanks.
Will
"Jambalaya"
Larry DeMers wrote:
Will,
Don't know that I agree totally with the fourth point you try to make. The cutter rig *was designed* for cruisers..not day sailors. Day Sailors get upset at the narrow slot and inconvenience of wiggling that big genoa thru there, but a cruiser has his eye on a different set of standards. One of safety and versatility in all conditions, since you are out there exposed to the elements for a greater length of time. That is where the cutter rig shines my friend. With the reefed main and staysail only up, the boat looses it's heavy windward helm of a few minutes earlier, due to being overcanvased. She sits up better and is a happier feeling boat. You have also centered the sail area inboard more which balances the boat better in higher winds and is safer in that you do not have to go out on the bow to work your sails, assuming that the genoa is struck due to the winds. Will, how do you handle high winds above your genoas range?
We anchor out 2-3 times per weekend, for around 30 weekends a year. We have a staysail. Are you telling me that my foredeck is too crowded and I should not be doing this? Hah! Try adding a RIB to the foredeck to see crowded!
We have an Avon 9 ft.Roll-Away dinghy which we deflate and pop into a wood cradle located over the companionway hatch. There is a sunbrella tarp that we cover it with, as well as two sets of straps that hold the whole package to the cradle, which is itself anchored to the seahood frame...and it fits nice and neatly under the boom, and away from the mast. In short, we get to keep our staysail (which is quite literally why I bought the Cape Dory 30 in the first place), stow the dinghy out of the water for crossings and long passages, and have a clear deck to walk on and work on at all times.
A RIB stowed on the foredeck would have to be launched before you can even anchor wouldn't it?
What's with the 'Real Cruisers' caste you bring up? I think things are all relative. I am sure that if Lyn and Larry Pardey were the measurement standard for 'Real Cruisers' we would all fall short. In turn, if Lyn and Larry were then compared to the Hiscocks or Miles Smeeton or Shackelton, or any of a dozen who have gone before us, they would also fall short...maybe.
I think the point where your compromises dictated your choices is when the RIB found it's way to the foredeck. That is not the ideal place for a rigid dinghy on any 30 fter, as it bears the brunt of a lot of water and wind, as well as create a real traffic jam when trying to get around it for sailwork should that be needed (like removing your genoa and putting up storm sails, since you don't have the staysail stay to use for this), and anchoring in particular.
Lastly, I think I can vouch for what you say about speed in the CD30. We did a 102 mile crossing this summer in 14.5 hrs..a tad over 7kts. avg. This was in 7-9 fters coming over our starboard port quarter and we flew the reefed main and 140% genoa only (staysail would have blanketed the genoa so was stowed).
Glad you had an apparently great trip. I would suggest rethinking that dink on the bow and struck staysail however.
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
will parker wrote: Gentlemen and ladies, or, more properly, Captains,
I arrived to the subject discussion late since I was on a cruise to the Florida Keys for the last two weeks. Nevertheless, I dutifully read all the old mail and wish to offer my sage advice.
First: I own a CD 30, cutter rig, although I have never owned the "Yankee" (After all, I am a descendent of Confederate veterans) . When I acquired the boat, it was outfitted with a 135%, or perhaps 140%, genny.
Second: I agree with Larry DeMers about tacking but offer the observation that is not the issue for REAL CRUISERS.
Third: The real issue for REAL CRUISERS is cruising in all its aspects which includes anchoring, unanchoring, and carrying a dinghy on deck when you are at sea.
Fourth: Which brings up the issue of foredeck clutter.
I believe that the CD 30 is too small a boat to be rigged as a cutter for REAL CRUISERS (not to be confused with day sailers).
Fifth: With the stay, the boom and the stay sail, anchoring becomes a real chore, even with a windlass. Moreover, carrying any significant sized dink on deck becomes almost impossible. (I have a Caribe 8 1/2' RIB, which is perhaps the world's best dink when being used as a dink. However, it requires a pretty big deck to accomodate it).
Sixth: My CD 30, sailed as a sloop with the 135% (or 140%) genny is clearly the fastest sailboat (proportionately) in the world. I sailed from Fort Lauderdale to West Palm Beach in East winds of 15 to 20 knots and seas of 3-6 feet, in six and one quarter (6 1/4) hours. The distance (measured by GPS) is 41 nautical miles. That is an average of 6.5 knots (confirmed by GPS) over a 41 mile course. Lest anyone believe I was aided by the Gulf Stream, I was never more than a mile from shore, therefore not affected by the Stream, which was experiencing 9 to 10 foot seas.
Seventh: Can you top that?
Eighth: The foregoing is true! However, I do have some very good lies which I am certainly willing to toss into the pot!
Will
"Jambalaya"
CD 30
whildenp@flinet.com
-
Leo MacDonald CD33
CD__, 'cutter' late entry
Hi All,
The CD 'cutters' (other than CD30) have 'intermediate after shrouds' attached between the mast (area of the inner forestay attachment) and chainplates on the deck just aft of the after lower shroud chainplates. This arrangement allows a heavier load on the inner forestay, as in storm conditions.
The CD30 'cutters' do not have these 'intermediate after shrouds', making heavy weather loads on the inner forestay to be problematic. (Long ago a message on this board mentioned a conversation with Andy V. at a boat show with Andy referring to the inner forestry on a CD30 as a sales aid??)
Fair Winds,
Leo
macdore@aol.com
The CD 'cutters' (other than CD30) have 'intermediate after shrouds' attached between the mast (area of the inner forestay attachment) and chainplates on the deck just aft of the after lower shroud chainplates. This arrangement allows a heavier load on the inner forestay, as in storm conditions.
The CD30 'cutters' do not have these 'intermediate after shrouds', making heavy weather loads on the inner forestay to be problematic. (Long ago a message on this board mentioned a conversation with Andy V. at a boat show with Andy referring to the inner forestry on a CD30 as a sales aid??)
Fair Winds,
Leo
macdore@aol.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: CD30, cutter or sloop? late entry
Hi Will,
I admit to being cornfused about your msg. heh..we talked while you were buying Jambalaya I believe, and I understood your level of sailing differently. But your being a recovering lawyer explains the direction of your comments in the last msg. ;^)
What I would suggest for you is the Avon Roll-Away dinghy. I have 3 years on ours now, and love everything about it..***EXCEPT THEIR ABYSMAL OAR LOCKS!!!*** They are the worlds worst oar locks and I hate those !@$!@#@# things. The oar continually slips out of the lock, and there is no good way to lock it down (they provide a couple pathetic bungee cord twist cords which pull out or break in a year or two. Except for this, the dinghy is great. It holds air all summer without topping off, rolls up into a tight little package, and weighs about 80 lbs.
Lastly, I would recommend that you at least have equipment and plans in place to handle winds above 25 should you get caught in them while out and about. You just returned from a trip, and it will form a good basis to imagine what you would need to do to assure you and your boats safety if the winds become rambunctious..ie:35kts and higher.
This will happen with certainty, if you are cruising at all. So a plan must be in place to depower the boat and handle these situations.
While the rib is a great dinghy if the mother vessel is large enough to handle the darn thing, it has to be stowed onboard when making a passage, and there lies the problem. I know of no answer either, as I wrestled with this one before buying the Avon. Forget davits..our CD30's rear ends are too fine to support that weight. It leaves storage under the boom. Any dinghy that has a floor will block your forward view to some extent..ours certainly does this too. I put in a helmsman seat across the back of the boat..which is slightly arched, lifting the helmsperson up a little, allowing them to see over the dinghy. Pretty comfortable. This was constructed (a few weeks ago) from 2 plywood arches, with teak 2 x 1/4 in. strips running across the two plywood pieces. The whole shebang was epoxied up and sealed. I will order a Bottom-Siders foam cushion to cover this seat with. They will fit an arched seat with snaps to hold the cushion in place. So that hopefully will cure the line of sight problem.
Glad you had a good trip!
Larry
demers@sgi.com
I admit to being cornfused about your msg. heh..we talked while you were buying Jambalaya I believe, and I understood your level of sailing differently. But your being a recovering lawyer explains the direction of your comments in the last msg. ;^)
What I would suggest for you is the Avon Roll-Away dinghy. I have 3 years on ours now, and love everything about it..***EXCEPT THEIR ABYSMAL OAR LOCKS!!!*** They are the worlds worst oar locks and I hate those !@$!@#@# things. The oar continually slips out of the lock, and there is no good way to lock it down (they provide a couple pathetic bungee cord twist cords which pull out or break in a year or two. Except for this, the dinghy is great. It holds air all summer without topping off, rolls up into a tight little package, and weighs about 80 lbs.
Lastly, I would recommend that you at least have equipment and plans in place to handle winds above 25 should you get caught in them while out and about. You just returned from a trip, and it will form a good basis to imagine what you would need to do to assure you and your boats safety if the winds become rambunctious..ie:35kts and higher.
This will happen with certainty, if you are cruising at all. So a plan must be in place to depower the boat and handle these situations.
While the rib is a great dinghy if the mother vessel is large enough to handle the darn thing, it has to be stowed onboard when making a passage, and there lies the problem. I know of no answer either, as I wrestled with this one before buying the Avon. Forget davits..our CD30's rear ends are too fine to support that weight. It leaves storage under the boom. Any dinghy that has a floor will block your forward view to some extent..ours certainly does this too. I put in a helmsman seat across the back of the boat..which is slightly arched, lifting the helmsperson up a little, allowing them to see over the dinghy. Pretty comfortable. This was constructed (a few weeks ago) from 2 plywood arches, with teak 2 x 1/4 in. strips running across the two plywood pieces. The whole shebang was epoxied up and sealed. I will order a Bottom-Siders foam cushion to cover this seat with. They will fit an arched seat with snaps to hold the cushion in place. So that hopefully will cure the line of sight problem.
Glad you had a good trip!
Larry
will parker wrote: Larry,
All seriousness aside,
its hard to disagree with anything you say since you base your conclusions on facts, logic and common sense; whereas, as you can see I base mine on creation of controversy. (I am a recovering lawyer).
Therefore if you would take the trouble to argue without thinking, you would see the validity of all my points. Nevertheless, since I am mostly a singlehander, (my wife can't swim, is afraid of water, and concerned about drowning), sailing my boat as a cutter, including aanchoring, etc., is a real challenge. Unfortunately, I chose the wrong dinghy for the CD30. I really should have got a fully inflatable(and therefore fully deflatable) dink, even if it isn't the best dink. Indeed, carrying this RIB on the foredeck, even without the staysail, is too difficult. I have been carrying it behind the mast with the bow tube deflated, but that really creates a visibility problem. I think I'm going to trade down on the dink.
With regard to reefing down the jib, I haven't experienced winds over 25 knots in this boat yet. So I haven't really had to face the challenge, although I have reefed the jib just to see if it would be a problem. It takes a lot of wind to get this boat overpowered.
Thanks.
Will
"Jambalaya"
Larry DeMers wrote:
Will,
Don't know that I agree totally with the fourth point you try to make. The cutter rig *was designed* for cruisers..not day sailors. Day Sailors get upset at the narrow slot and inconvenience of wiggling that big genoa thru there, but a cruiser has his eye on a different set of standards. One of safety and versatility in all conditions, since you are out there exposed to the elements for a greater length of time. That is where the cutter rig shines my friend. With the reefed main and staysail only up, the boat looses it's heavy windward helm of a few minutes earlier, due to being overcanvased. She sits up better and is a happier feeling boat. You have also centered the sail area inboard more which balances the boat better in higher winds and is safer in that you do not have to go out on the bow to work your sails, assuming that the genoa is struck due to the winds. Will, how do you handle high winds above your genoas range?
We anchor out 2-3 times per weekend, for around 30 weekends a year. We have a staysail. Are you telling me that my foredeck is too crowded and I should not be doing this? Hah! Try adding a RIB to the foredeck to see crowded!
We have an Avon 9 ft.Roll-Away dinghy which we deflate and pop into a wood cradle located over the companionway hatch. There is a sunbrella tarp that we cover it with, as well as two sets of straps that hold the whole package to the cradle, which is itself anchored to the seahood frame...and it fits nice and neatly under the boom, and away from the mast. In short, we get to keep our staysail (which is quite literally why I bought the Cape Dory 30 in the first place), stow the dinghy out of the water for crossings and long passages, and have a clear deck to walk on and work on at all times.
A RIB stowed on the foredeck would have to be launched before you can even anchor wouldn't it?
What's with the 'Real Cruisers' caste you bring up? I think things are all relative. I am sure that if Lyn and Larry Pardey were the measurement standard for 'Real Cruisers' we would all fall short. In turn, if Lyn and Larry were then compared to the Hiscocks or Miles Smeeton or Shackelton, or any of a dozen who have gone before us, they would also fall short...maybe.
I think the point where your compromises dictated your choices is when the RIB found it's way to the foredeck. That is not the ideal place for a rigid dinghy on any 30 fter, as it bears the brunt of a lot of water and wind, as well as create a real traffic jam when trying to get around it for sailwork should that be needed (like removing your genoa and putting up storm sails, since you don't have the staysail stay to use for this), and anchoring in particular.
Lastly, I think I can vouch for what you say about speed in the CD30. We did a 102 mile crossing this summer in 14.5 hrs..a tad over 7kts. avg. This was in 7-9 fters coming over our starboard port quarter and we flew the reefed main and 140% genoa only (staysail would have blanketed the genoa so was stowed).
Glad you had an apparently great trip. I would suggest rethinking that dink on the bow and struck staysail however.
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
will parker wrote: Gentlemen and ladies, or, more properly, Captains,
I arrived to the subject discussion late since I was on a cruise to the Florida Keys for the last two weeks. Nevertheless, I dutifully read all the old mail and wish to offer my sage advice.
First: I own a CD 30, cutter rig, although I have never owned the "Yankee" (After all, I am a descendent of Confederate veterans) . When I acquired the boat, it was outfitted with a 135%, or perhaps 140%, genny.
Second: I agree with Larry DeMers about tacking but offer the observation that is not the issue for REAL CRUISERS.
Third: The real issue for REAL CRUISERS is cruising in all its aspects which includes anchoring, unanchoring, and carrying a dinghy on deck when you are at sea.
Fourth: Which brings up the issue of foredeck clutter.
I believe that the CD 30 is too small a boat to be rigged as a cutter for REAL CRUISERS (not to be confused with day sailers).
Fifth: With the stay, the boom and the stay sail, anchoring becomes a real chore, even with a windlass. Moreover, carrying any significant sized dink on deck becomes almost impossible. (I have a Caribe 8 1/2' RIB, which is perhaps the world's best dink when being used as a dink. However, it requires a pretty big deck to accomodate it).
Sixth: My CD 30, sailed as a sloop with the 135% (or 140%) genny is clearly the fastest sailboat (proportionately) in the world. I sailed from Fort Lauderdale to West Palm Beach in East winds of 15 to 20 knots and seas of 3-6 feet, in six and one quarter (6 1/4) hours. The distance (measured by GPS) is 41 nautical miles. That is an average of 6.5 knots (confirmed by GPS) over a 41 mile course. Lest anyone believe I was aided by the Gulf Stream, I was never more than a mile from shore, therefore not affected by the Stream, which was experiencing 9 to 10 foot seas.
Seventh: Can you top that?
Eighth: The foregoing is true! However, I do have some very good lies which I am certainly willing to toss into the pot!
Will
"Jambalaya"
CD 30
demers@sgi.com
-
Ken Coit
Re: CD30, cutter or sloop? late entry
Larry,
OK, I want pics of the helmsman's seat and the cradle for your rollaway. Please send post haste as winter is very short down here in the Carolinas. Not sure we are going to have to drain the tanks this year!
Ken
pPPParfait@nc.rr.com (delete repetitive chars)
OK, I want pics of the helmsman's seat and the cradle for your rollaway. Please send post haste as winter is very short down here in the Carolinas. Not sure we are going to have to drain the tanks this year!
Ken
Larry DeMers wrote: Hi Will,
I admit to being cornfused about your msg. heh..we talked while you were buying Jambalaya I believe, and I understood your level of sailing differently. But your being a recovering lawyer explains the direction of your comments in the last msg. ;^)
What I would suggest for you is the Avon Roll-Away dinghy. I have 3 years on ours now, and love everything about it..***EXCEPT THEIR ABYSMAL OAR LOCKS!!!*** They are the worlds worst oar locks and I hate those !@$!@#@# things. The oar continually slips out of the lock, and there is no good way to lock it down (they provide a couple pathetic bungee cord twist cords which pull out or break in a year or two. Except for this, the dinghy is great. It holds air all summer without topping off, rolls up into a tight little package, and weighs about 80 lbs.
Lastly, I would recommend that you at least have equipment and plans in place to handle winds above 25 should you get caught in them while out and about. You just returned from a trip, and it will form a good basis to imagine what you would need to do to assure you and your boats safety if the winds become rambunctious..ie:35kts and higher.
This will happen with certainty, if you are cruising at all. So a plan must be in place to depower the boat and handle these situations.
While the rib is a great dinghy if the mother vessel is large enough to handle the darn thing, it has to be stowed onboard when making a passage, and there lies the problem. I know of no answer either, as I wrestled with this one before buying the Avon. Forget davits..our CD30's rear ends are too fine to support that weight. It leaves storage under the boom. Any dinghy that has a floor will block your forward view to some extent..ours certainly does this too. I put in a helmsman seat across the back of the boat..which is slightly arched, lifting the helmsperson up a little, allowing them to see over the dinghy. Pretty comfortable. This was constructed (a few weeks ago) from 2 plywood arches, with teak 2 x 1/4 in. strips running across the two plywood pieces. The whole shebang was epoxied up and sealed. I will order a Bottom-Siders foam cushion to cover this seat with. They will fit an arched seat with snaps to hold the cushion in place. So that hopefully will cure the line of sight problem.
Glad you had a good trip!
Larry
will parker wrote: Larry,
All seriousness aside,
its hard to disagree with anything you say since you base your conclusions on facts, logic and common sense; whereas, as you can see I base mine on creation of controversy. (I am a recovering lawyer).
Therefore if you would take the trouble to argue without thinking, you would see the validity of all my points. Nevertheless, since I am mostly a singlehander, (my wife can't swim, is afraid of water, and concerned about drowning), sailing my boat as a cutter, including aanchoring, etc., is a real challenge. Unfortunately, I chose the wrong dinghy for the CD30. I really should have got a fully inflatable(and therefore fully deflatable) dink, even if it isn't the best dink. Indeed, carrying this RIB on the foredeck, even without the staysail, is too difficult. I have been carrying it behind the mast with the bow tube deflated, but that really creates a visibility problem. I think I'm going to trade down on the dink.
With regard to reefing down the jib, I haven't experienced winds over 25 knots in this boat yet. So I haven't really had to face the challenge, although I have reefed the jib just to see if it would be a problem. It takes a lot of wind to get this boat overpowered.
Thanks.
Will
"Jambalaya"
Larry DeMers wrote:
Will,
Don't know that I agree totally with the fourth point you try to make. The cutter rig *was designed* for cruisers..not day sailors. Day Sailors get upset at the narrow slot and inconvenience of wiggling that big genoa thru there, but a cruiser has his eye on a different set of standards. One of safety and versatility in all conditions, since you are out there exposed to the elements for a greater length of time. That is where the cutter rig shines my friend. With the reefed main and staysail only up, the boat looses it's heavy windward helm of a few minutes earlier, due to being overcanvased. She sits up better and is a happier feeling boat. You have also centered the sail area inboard more which balances the boat better in higher winds and is safer in that you do not have to go out on the bow to work your sails, assuming that the genoa is struck due to the winds. Will, how do you handle high winds above your genoas range?
We anchor out 2-3 times per weekend, for around 30 weekends a year. We have a staysail. Are you telling me that my foredeck is too crowded and I should not be doing this? Hah! Try adding a RIB to the foredeck to see crowded!
We have an Avon 9 ft.Roll-Away dinghy which we deflate and pop into a wood cradle located over the companionway hatch. There is a sunbrella tarp that we cover it with, as well as two sets of straps that hold the whole package to the cradle, which is itself anchored to the seahood frame...and it fits nice and neatly under the boom, and away from the mast. In short, we get to keep our staysail (which is quite literally why I bought the Cape Dory 30 in the first place), stow the dinghy out of the water for crossings and long passages, and have a clear deck to walk on and work on at all times.
A RIB stowed on the foredeck would have to be launched before you can even anchor wouldn't it?
What's with the 'Real Cruisers' caste you bring up? I think things are all relative. I am sure that if Lyn and Larry Pardey were the measurement standard for 'Real Cruisers' we would all fall short. In turn, if Lyn and Larry were then compared to the Hiscocks or Miles Smeeton or Shackelton, or any of a dozen who have gone before us, they would also fall short...maybe.
I think the point where your compromises dictated your choices is when the RIB found it's way to the foredeck. That is not the ideal place for a rigid dinghy on any 30 fter, as it bears the brunt of a lot of water and wind, as well as create a real traffic jam when trying to get around it for sailwork should that be needed (like removing your genoa and putting up storm sails, since you don't have the staysail stay to use for this), and anchoring in particular.
Lastly, I think I can vouch for what you say about speed in the CD30. We did a 102 mile crossing this summer in 14.5 hrs..a tad over 7kts. avg. This was in 7-9 fters coming over our starboard port quarter and we flew the reefed main and 140% genoa only (staysail would have blanketed the genoa so was stowed).
Glad you had an apparently great trip. I would suggest rethinking that dink on the bow and struck staysail however.
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
pPPParfait@nc.rr.com (delete repetitive chars)
-
will parker
Re: CD30, cutter or sloop? late entry
Thanks, Larry, for your reply. As usual you provide useful information based on your extensive experience. I may go for the AVON or similar, but I do need an outboard bracket. I'm not real interested in a lot of rowing, whether the oar locks are good or not. The Caribe is perfect in the water because of its hard bottom and huge tubes (18"). It provides a nice "dry" ride. I hate to give that up but I think I will have to. Know anybody who needs a Caribe RIB?
BTW, I also dropped some advise to you on moving to Florida but that was sent very late as a reply to one of yours. You probably didn't see it. Mainly, I agreed with everyone else, except offered the observation that Florida's West Coast is too shallow for sailboats, and nobody needs the quantity of lightning they experience. Besides, West Palm Beach is a great jumping off place for the Bahamas.
Just for information, I added a 100 watt solar panel, and have acquired, but not yet installed a Balmar high output alternator and regulator. I followed your descriptions of doing same with great interest. You have the Volvo engine while I have the Universal, but they are about the same hp. Mine is rated at 14. Have you had problems losing power to the alternator?
Will
"Jambalaya"
whildenp@flinet.com
BTW, I also dropped some advise to you on moving to Florida but that was sent very late as a reply to one of yours. You probably didn't see it. Mainly, I agreed with everyone else, except offered the observation that Florida's West Coast is too shallow for sailboats, and nobody needs the quantity of lightning they experience. Besides, West Palm Beach is a great jumping off place for the Bahamas.
Just for information, I added a 100 watt solar panel, and have acquired, but not yet installed a Balmar high output alternator and regulator. I followed your descriptions of doing same with great interest. You have the Volvo engine while I have the Universal, but they are about the same hp. Mine is rated at 14. Have you had problems losing power to the alternator?
Will
"Jambalaya"
Larry DeMers wrote: Hi Will,
I admit to being cornfused about your msg. heh..we talked while you were buying Jambalaya I believe, and I understood your level of sailing differently. But your being a recovering lawyer explains the direction of your comments in the last msg. ;^)
What I would suggest for you is the Avon Roll-Away dinghy. I have 3 years on ours now, and love everything about it..***EXCEPT THEIR ABYSMAL OAR LOCKS!!!*** They are the worlds worst oar locks and I hate those !@$!@#@# things. The oar continually slips out of the lock, and there is no good way to lock it down (they provide a couple pathetic bungee cord twist cords which pull out or break in a year or two. Except for this, the dinghy is great. It holds air all summer without topping off, rolls up into a tight little package, and weighs about 80 lbs.
Lastly, I would recommend that you at least have equipment and plans in place to handle winds above 25 should you get caught in them while out and about. You just returned from a trip, and it will form a good basis to imagine what you would need to do to assure you and your boats safety if the winds become rambunctious..ie:35kts and higher.
This will happen with certainty, if you are cruising at all. So a plan must be in place to depower the boat and handle these situations.
While the rib is a great dinghy if the mother vessel is large enough to handle the darn thing, it has to be stowed onboard when making a passage, and there lies the problem. I know of no answer either, as I wrestled with this one before buying the Avon. Forget davits..our CD30's rear ends are too fine to support that weight. It leaves storage under the boom. Any dinghy that has a floor will block your forward view to some extent..ours certainly does this too. I put in a helmsman seat across the back of the boat..which is slightly arched, lifting the helmsperson up a little, allowing them to see over the dinghy. Pretty comfortable. This was constructed (a few weeks ago) from 2 plywood arches, with teak 2 x 1/4 in. strips running across the two plywood pieces. The whole shebang was epoxied up and sealed. I will order a Bottom-Siders foam cushion to cover this seat with. They will fit an arched seat with snaps to hold the cushion in place. So that hopefully will cure the line of sight problem.
Glad you had a good trip!
Larry
will parker wrote: Larry,
All seriousness aside,
its hard to disagree with anything you say since you base your conclusions on facts, logic and common sense; whereas, as you can see I base mine on creation of controversy. (I am a recovering lawyer).
Therefore if you would take the trouble to argue without thinking, you would see the validity of all my points. Nevertheless, since I am mostly a singlehander, (my wife can't swim, is afraid of water, and concerned about drowning), sailing my boat as a cutter, including aanchoring, etc., is a real challenge. Unfortunately, I chose the wrong dinghy for the CD30. I really should have got a fully inflatable(and therefore fully deflatable) dink, even if it isn't the best dink. Indeed, carrying this RIB on the foredeck, even without the staysail, is too difficult. I have been carrying it behind the mast with the bow tube deflated, but that really creates a visibility problem. I think I'm going to trade down on the dink.
With regard to reefing down the jib, I haven't experienced winds over 25 knots in this boat yet. So I haven't really had to face the challenge, although I have reefed the jib just to see if it would be a problem. It takes a lot of wind to get this boat overpowered.
Thanks.
Will
"Jambalaya"
Larry DeMers wrote:
Will,
Don't know that I agree totally with the fourth point you try to make. The cutter rig *was designed* for cruisers..not day sailors. Day Sailors get upset at the narrow slot and inconvenience of wiggling that big genoa thru there, but a cruiser has his eye on a different set of standards. One of safety and versatility in all conditions, since you are out there exposed to the elements for a greater length of time. That is where the cutter rig shines my friend. With the reefed main and staysail only up, the boat looses it's heavy windward helm of a few minutes earlier, due to being overcanvased. She sits up better and is a happier feeling boat. You have also centered the sail area inboard more which balances the boat better in higher winds and is safer in that you do not have to go out on the bow to work your sails, assuming that the genoa is struck due to the winds. Will, how do you handle high winds above your genoas range?
We anchor out 2-3 times per weekend, for around 30 weekends a year. We have a staysail. Are you telling me that my foredeck is too crowded and I should not be doing this? Hah! Try adding a RIB to the foredeck to see crowded!
We have an Avon 9 ft.Roll-Away dinghy which we deflate and pop into a wood cradle located over the companionway hatch. There is a sunbrella tarp that we cover it with, as well as two sets of straps that hold the whole package to the cradle, which is itself anchored to the seahood frame...and it fits nice and neatly under the boom, and away from the mast. In short, we get to keep our staysail (which is quite literally why I bought the Cape Dory 30 in the first place), stow the dinghy out of the water for crossings and long passages, and have a clear deck to walk on and work on at all times.
A RIB stowed on the foredeck would have to be launched before you can even anchor wouldn't it?
What's with the 'Real Cruisers' caste you bring up? I think things are all relative. I am sure that if Lyn and Larry Pardey were the measurement standard for 'Real Cruisers' we would all fall short. In turn, if Lyn and Larry were then compared to the Hiscocks or Miles Smeeton or Shackelton, or any of a dozen who have gone before us, they would also fall short...maybe.
I think the point where your compromises dictated your choices is when the RIB found it's way to the foredeck. That is not the ideal place for a rigid dinghy on any 30 fter, as it bears the brunt of a lot of water and wind, as well as create a real traffic jam when trying to get around it for sailwork should that be needed (like removing your genoa and putting up storm sails, since you don't have the staysail stay to use for this), and anchoring in particular.
Lastly, I think I can vouch for what you say about speed in the CD30. We did a 102 mile crossing this summer in 14.5 hrs..a tad over 7kts. avg. This was in 7-9 fters coming over our starboard port quarter and we flew the reefed main and 140% genoa only (staysail would have blanketed the genoa so was stowed).
Glad you had an apparently great trip. I would suggest rethinking that dink on the bow and struck staysail however.
Cheers and Happy Holidays,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
whildenp@flinet.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: CD30, cutter or sloop? late entry
Hi Will,
Our Avon Roll-Away has 18 or 19 inch tubes (nice and dry most of the time!), and a hard transom for your outboard to mount to. We also use an outboard for motivation rather than oars, since the inflatables are horrible to row.
I have noticed that if you are at very low rpm's while this 90 sec. period is occuring, and you don't increase the throttle setting a bit to compensate for the coming load as the alt. goes to full output power, the alt. will actually "lock up". Ie: the field gets energized, and the engine does not have enough speed to carry the rotor around past the field windings, then the windings will attract the nearest face on the rotor, and stop rotation of the alternator shaft, causing the belt to slip and squeal, despite belt tension settings.
This is an artifact of high output alternators, I am afraid. The fix is to install a alternator field current cutoff switch. Right now, I use the "start key"..turning the key off to kill field current since I take the field 12vdc voltage from the ignition switched power to the oil pressure switch. This kills the field current and allows me to maneuver the boat with full power, returning the ignition switch to on when finished with the maneuver. The longer term fix is to make the 12vdc power fromt he ignition switch go thru another SPST toggle switch, mounted in a waterproof box near the helm. This would then cut off the field current when needed.
We are setup with a Group 31 House 1 bank (130 AH for lights, radios etc.) and a set of Golf Cart Batteries (Trojans..225 AH) for House Bank 2 (Reefer only). So combined House Ampacity is 355 AH and useable Ampacity is ~175 AH (50% of total). We have gone 3 days without recharging while at anchor, awaiting the fog to clear etc. with about 40AH being used per day, with reefer/freezer, lights, stereo etc. To recharge this load, which is about 2/3 of the useable Ampacity, the alternator took about 1.5 hr. of engine time. Since the wind was down and we wanted to move to another island, this worked out great. This turned out to be quite typical of our recharging protocol while out anchored. We sometimes ran the engine for 15 minutes at a time only, adding up to about an hours worth by nightfall.
We have enough power to go 5 days without running the engine at all, and that was the design goal at the very beginning.
Try adding the cutout switch to your alternators field wire, (per Balmars instructions if needed). Then the load will not occur at the wrong times.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
Our Avon Roll-Away has 18 or 19 inch tubes (nice and dry most of the time!), and a hard transom for your outboard to mount to. We also use an outboard for motivation rather than oars, since the inflatables are horrible to row.
Yes..the 80amp Balmar alternator requires about 3 hp to run when fully loaded down. This is noticeable of course. What they do have in their regulators is a timer that allows ~90 seconds of time before the alternator is ramped up to the full requested power. This allows the alt. belt to heat up and the engine to warm and expand..and presumably will allow you to get out of your slip before the alt. requires more power.will parker wrote: Just for information, I added a 100 watt solar panel, and have acquired, but not yet installed a Balmar high output alternator and regulator. I followed your descriptions of doing same with great interest. You have the Volvo engine while I have the Universal, but they are about the same hp. Mine is rated at 14. Have you had problems losing power to the alternator?
I have noticed that if you are at very low rpm's while this 90 sec. period is occuring, and you don't increase the throttle setting a bit to compensate for the coming load as the alt. goes to full output power, the alt. will actually "lock up". Ie: the field gets energized, and the engine does not have enough speed to carry the rotor around past the field windings, then the windings will attract the nearest face on the rotor, and stop rotation of the alternator shaft, causing the belt to slip and squeal, despite belt tension settings.
This is an artifact of high output alternators, I am afraid. The fix is to install a alternator field current cutoff switch. Right now, I use the "start key"..turning the key off to kill field current since I take the field 12vdc voltage from the ignition switched power to the oil pressure switch. This kills the field current and allows me to maneuver the boat with full power, returning the ignition switch to on when finished with the maneuver. The longer term fix is to make the 12vdc power fromt he ignition switch go thru another SPST toggle switch, mounted in a waterproof box near the helm. This would then cut off the field current when needed.
We are setup with a Group 31 House 1 bank (130 AH for lights, radios etc.) and a set of Golf Cart Batteries (Trojans..225 AH) for House Bank 2 (Reefer only). So combined House Ampacity is 355 AH and useable Ampacity is ~175 AH (50% of total). We have gone 3 days without recharging while at anchor, awaiting the fog to clear etc. with about 40AH being used per day, with reefer/freezer, lights, stereo etc. To recharge this load, which is about 2/3 of the useable Ampacity, the alternator took about 1.5 hr. of engine time. Since the wind was down and we wanted to move to another island, this worked out great. This turned out to be quite typical of our recharging protocol while out anchored. We sometimes ran the engine for 15 minutes at a time only, adding up to about an hours worth by nightfall.
We have enough power to go 5 days without running the engine at all, and that was the design goal at the very beginning.
Try adding the cutout switch to your alternators field wire, (per Balmars instructions if needed). Then the load will not occur at the wrong times.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: CD30, cutter or sloop? late entry
Ahhem..well, the cradle is on the boat now, covered with tarp, and we're not likely to be opening it up until March 25th or so..sooner if this weather holds. The helmsman seat is in the basement and in process of finishing, so that I can grab a photo of when I am off over Christmas.
Now to remember it...sigh.
Larry
demers@sgi.com
Now to remember it...sigh.
Larry
Ken Coit wrote: Larry,
OK, I want pics of the helmsman's seat and the cradle for your rollaway. Please send post haste as winter is very short down here in the Carolinas. Not sure we are going to have to drain the tanks this year!
Ken
Larry DeMers wrote: Hi Will,
I admit to being cornfused about your msg. heh..we talked while you were buying Jambalaya I believe, and I understood your level of sailing differently. But your being a recovering lawyer explains the direction of your comments in the last msg. ;^)
What I would suggest for you is the Avon Roll-Away dinghy. I have 3 years on ours now, and love everything about it..***EXCEPT THEIR ABYSMAL OAR LOCKS!!!*** They are the worlds worst oar locks and I hate those !@$!@#@# things. The oar continually slips out of the lock, and there is no good way to lock it down (they provide a couple pathetic bungee cord twist cords which pull out or break in a year or two. Except for this, the dinghy is great. It holds air all summer without topping off, rolls up into a tight little package, and weighs about 80 lbs.
Lastly, I would recommend that you at least have equipment and plans in place to handle winds above 25 should you get caught in them while out and about. You just returned from a trip, and it will form a good basis to imagine what you would need to do to assure you and your boats safety if the winds become rambunctious..ie:35kts and higher.
This will happen with certainty, if you are cruising at all. So a plan must be in place to depower the boat and handle these situations.
While the rib is a great dinghy if the mother vessel is large enough to handle the darn thing, it has to be stowed onboard when making a passage, and there lies the problem. I know of no answer either, as I wrestled with this one before buying the Avon. Forget davits..our CD30's rear ends are too fine to support that weight. It leaves storage under the boom. Any dinghy that has a floor will block your forward view to some extent..ours certainly does this too. I put in a helmsman seat across the back of the boat..which is slightly arched, lifting the helmsperson up a little, allowing them to see over the dinghy. Pretty comfortable. This was constructed (a few weeks ago) from 2 plywood arches, with teak 2 x 1/4 in. strips running across the two plywood pieces. The whole shebang was epoxied up and sealed. I will order a Bottom-Siders foam cushion to cover this seat with. They will fit an arched seat with snaps to hold the cushion in place. So that hopefully will cure the line of sight problem.
Glad you had a good trip!
Larry
will parker wrote: Larry,
All seriousness aside,
its hard to disagree with anything you say since you base your conclusions on facts, logic and common sense; whereas, as you can see I base mine on creation of controversy. (I am a recovering lawyer).
Therefore if you would take the trouble to argue without thinking, you would see the validity of all my points. Nevertheless, since I am mostly a singlehander, (my wife can't swim, is afraid of water, and concerned about drowning), sailing my boat as a cutter, including aanchoring, etc., is a real challenge. Unfortunately, I chose the wrong dinghy for the CD30. I really should have got a fully inflatable(and therefore fully deflatable) dink, even if it isn't the best dink. Indeed, carrying this RIB on the foredeck, even without the staysail, is too difficult. I have been carrying it behind the mast with the bow tube deflated, but that really creates a visibility problem. I think I'm going to trade down on the dink.
With regard to reefing down the jib, I haven't experienced winds over 25 knots in this boat yet. So I haven't really had to face the challenge, although I have reefed the jib just to see if it would be a problem. It takes a lot of wind to get this boat overpowered.
Thanks.
Will
"Jambalaya"
demers@sgi.com