new rudder needed for 1985 31' CD sailboat

[Lynn Mendelman]

A split has formed in the rudder, along the rudder post of this 1985 31' (LOA) Cape Dory sailboat. Is there a method to purchase these rudders?



lynnmendelman@harbormarina.com

[john doyle]

A split has formed in the rudder, along the rudder post of this 1985 31' (LOA) Cape Dory sailboat. Is there a method to purchase these rudders?

The rudder can be repaired. they are made in 2 halfs & fiberglassed together.
John CD31 #18



redzeplin@yahoo.com

[John Nuttall]

.... a new rudder would cost thousands.

Have a surveyor examine it, and determine the best course of action. It could turn out to be a simple repair....

Good luck,
John Nuttall
CD31 #28
Oriental, NC



aimless@nc.rr.com

[len]

lynn

no new rudder is available even if you needed one which hopefully you don't - i think the big question will be whether the rudder can be repaired in place or has to be removed - removal is a substantial job but can be done by someone handy or any good boatyard - if the split is large and deep it may be best to remove the rudder to be sure it is totally repaired, you don't want it to fail under use - prior threads discuss rudder removal - feel free to email me directly

len



md.frel@nwh.org

[Larry DeMers]

I don't think you have a choice..it has to be removed and the water drained out of it, rinsed with fresh water and redried. The metal armature (should be S.S., but I don't know if it is or not) that is incorporated into the rudder will now be wet, and with salt water yet. S.S. will rust like any other iron when deprived of oxygen for long..crevice corrosion etc. This you do not want to happen after the split has been dealt with.
In fact..you really need to know what caused it to split in the first place. A leak would do that..the rust that forms expands, allowing more water intrusion, resulting in more rust, which expands etc. (Much like the freeze-thaw effect in rocks). There is only one way to do this repair properly. Remove the rudder, break the two halves open enough to reveal the armature in totality. Inspect it carefully. Rebuild the damaged or removed area of fiberglass if the armature is not rusting at all, and then recombine the two halves as originally done.
A suggestion. Take several good photos of the rudder for shape and size comparison for later use..take photos of the armature too, for future reference should this process happen again downwind in time. You will know where the armature is in relation to the rudder post for instance..could be useful.
If you need to remove one of the halves completely to get at and replace the metal armature, it would be wise to record as much info about the shape of the rudder ahead of time as possible. Make cardboard or door skin cutout of the leading and trailing edges of the rudder, for shape and thickness. Trace out the actual shape on butchers paper..a couple times even. This will be the template by which you rebuild the rudder.

Additionally, you can also make a doorskin gauge of the rudder at various equidistant, and marked stations from top to bottom. What this is, is a plywood piece that has the exact horizontal (fore to aft)shape of the rudder cut into it at the top, bottom and say 3 locations between. Imagine the rudder standing vertical. The plywood would be offered up to the rudder from the sides, and on a horizontal plane, at the top, bottom and 3 other marked and equidistant locations between the two ends. One person holds the ply in place carefully, while the other scribes the shape of the rudder on the ply with a compass. Then the shape would be cut out carefully with a scroll saw. Do it for both sides before any intrusive work is done.

This IS NOT a floating rudder by the by..it weighs probably 100 lbs with the shaft.

Sounds like a very interesting project. Wish you were up here in my neck-o-the-woods, as I would like to get involved with it.

Please keep us up on how it goes. With some luck, maybe the damage is not too bad and repairable with out disassembly..hope so. But even if not..remember that people have done this very thing before..by themselves..while on uninhabited atolls in the Pacific.
I once edited and then published a 16 installment set of letters from a sailor on Raro in the Pacific, aboard his 27fter..had to remove and rebuild his own diesel engine over the hurricane season ..on hurricane prone Rarotonga. No travel lift or sling available, so had to build his own lift from a mess of WWII discarded steel pipe, a welder from the local street dept. and some axel/tire combos he dug up to make the trailer to haul the boat inland a safe distance. His name was Austin Whitten..currently in New Zealand. He rebuilt the rudder as an after thought, when he discoverd rust seeping from the core.

Keep this site in hand if you get stuck..lots of talented people here with good experience to share with you.

Best of Luck,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

A split has formed in the rudder, along the rudder post of this 1985 31' (LOA) Cape Dory sailboat. Is there a method to purchase these rudders?

demers@sgi.com

[Ken Coit]

Lynn,

It sounds to me as if Larry needs another winter project. Why don't you ship it to him?

Ken

I don't think you have a choice..it has to be removed and the water drained out of it, rinsed with fresh water and redried. The metal armature (should be S.S., but I don't know if it is or not) that is incorporated into the rudder will now be wet, and with salt water yet. S.S. will rust like any other iron when deprived of oxygen for long..crevice corrosion etc. This you do not want to happen after the split has been dealt with.
In fact..you really need to know what caused it to split in the first place. A leak would do that..the rust that forms expands, allowing more water intrusion, resulting in more rust, which expands etc. (Much like the freeze-thaw effect in rocks). There is only one way to do this repair properly. Remove the rudder, break the two halves open enough to reveal the armature in totality. Inspect it carefully. Rebuild the damaged or removed area of fiberglass if the armature is not rusting at all, and then recombine the two halves as originally done.
A suggestion. Take several good photos of the rudder for shape and size comparison for later use..take photos of the armature too, for future reference should this process happen again downwind in time. You will know where the armature is in relation to the rudder post for instance..could be useful.
If you need to remove one of the halves completely to get at and replace the metal armature, it would be wise to record as much info about the shape of the rudder ahead of time as possible. Make cardboard or door skin cutout of the leading and trailing edges of the rudder, for shape and thickness. Trace out the actual shape on butchers paper..a couple times even. This will be the template by which you rebuild the rudder.

Additionally, you can also make a doorskin gauge of the rudder at various equidistant, and marked stations from top to bottom. What this is, is a plywood piece that has the exact horizontal (fore to aft)shape of the rudder cut into it at the top, bottom and say 3 locations between. Imagine the rudder standing vertical. The plywood would be offered up to the rudder from the sides, and on a horizontal plane, at the top, bottom and 3 other marked and equidistant locations between the two ends. One person holds the ply in place carefully, while the other scribes the shape of the rudder on the ply with a compass. Then the shape would be cut out carefully with a scroll saw. Do it for both sides before any intrusive work is done.

This IS NOT a floating rudder by the by..it weighs probably 100 lbs with the shaft.

Sounds like a very interesting project. Wish you were up here in my neck-o-the-woods, as I would like to get involved with it.

Please keep us up on how it goes. With some luck, maybe the damage is not too bad and repairable with out disassembly..hope so. But even if not..remember that people have done this very thing before..by themselves..while on uninhabited atolls in the Pacific.
I once edited and then published a 16 installment set of letters from a sailor on Raro in the Pacific, aboard his 27fter..had to remove and rebuild his own diesel engine over the hurricane season ..on hurricane prone Rarotonga. No travel lift or sling available, so had to build his own lift from a mess of WWII discarded steel pipe, a welder from the local street dept. and some axel/tire combos he dug up to make the trailer to haul the boat inland a safe distance. His name was Austin Whitten..currently in New Zealand. He rebuilt the rudder as an after thought, when he discoverd rust seeping from the core.

Keep this site in hand if you get stuck..lots of talented people here with good experience to share with you.

Best of Luck,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

A split has formed in the rudder, along the rudder post of this 1985 31' (LOA) Cape Dory sailboat. Is there a method to purchase these rudders?

parfait@nc.rr.com

[Hobby Marine]

Lynn:

I would be glad to repair or offer a replacement rudder for your boat. I have the molds for the rudder for the 300MS and know how Cape Dory put these together. If you are willing to ship it to me I will either repair or build you a new one. Just let me know. In any case, the rudder must be dried out to prevent corrosion of the S.S.

Best of luck to you.
Glen



glen@hobbymarine.com

[Larry DeMers]

Heh... Whoa there! Not necessarily..;^) I have done this before though, and after you get over the idea that you are rebuilding a rudder, and the implications of it all.. well, it is actually a fun project. All the elements for success are there; You have the final shape already determined and available for duplication. The work exposes you to the inner sanctum of how a rudder is built using the armature method, and also involves some original thinking on your part as you determine what to remove and what to improve, etc. The end result will be with you for the life of the boat, giving you a sense of satisfaction at repairing a major part of the boat on your own pretty much. That is invaluable for the sailor that seeks indepence from shoreside suppport systems and hired 'experts' that would do the work for you..at a price. Confidence building is an essential part in allowing one to consider pushing the horizon out a bit, and this project can be a large source of confidence building for someone that wants to tackle it.


Lastly, a magazine recently published the whole process for rebuilding a rudder, with great photos too. I am having trouble recalling if it was 'Good Old Boat' or another like Ocean Navigator or Latts and Atts. Will have to see if I can find it for reference.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer

Lynn,

It sounds to me as if Larry needs another winter project. Why don't you ship it to him?

Ken

I don't think you have a choice..it has to be removed and the water drained out of it, rinsed with fresh water and redried. The metal armature (should be S.S., but I don't know if it is or not) that is incorporated into the rudder will now be wet, and with salt water yet. S.S. will rust like any other iron when deprived of oxygen for long..crevice corrosion etc. This you do not want to happen after the split has been dealt with.
In fact..you really need to know what caused it to split in the first place. A leak would do that..the rust that forms expands, allowing more water intrusion, resulting in more rust, which expands etc. (Much like the freeze-thaw effect in rocks). There is only one way to do this repair properly. Remove the rudder, break the two halves open enough to reveal the armature in totality. Inspect it carefully. Rebuild the damaged or removed area of fiberglass if the armature is not rusting at all, and then recombine the two halves as originally done.
A suggestion. Take several good photos of the rudder for shape and size comparison for later use..take photos of the armature too, for future reference should this process happen again downwind in time. You will know where the armature is in relation to the rudder post for instance..could be useful.
If you need to remove one of the halves completely to get at and replace the metal armature, it would be wise to record as much info about the shape of the rudder ahead of time as possible. Make cardboard or door skin cutout of the leading and trailing edges of the rudder, for shape and thickness. Trace out the actual shape on butchers paper..a couple times even. This will be the template by which you rebuild the rudder.

Additionally, you can also make a doorskin gauge of the rudder at various equidistant, and marked stations from top to bottom. What this is, is a plywood piece that has the exact horizontal (fore to aft)shape of the rudder cut into it at the top, bottom and say 3 locations between. Imagine the rudder standing vertical. The plywood would be offered up to the rudder from the sides, and on a horizontal plane, at the top, bottom and 3 other marked and equidistant locations between the two ends. One person holds the ply in place carefully, while the other scribes the shape of the rudder on the ply with a compass. Then the shape would be cut out carefully with a scroll saw. Do it for both sides before any intrusive work is done.

This IS NOT a floating rudder by the by..it weighs probably 100 lbs with the shaft.

Sounds like a very interesting project. Wish you were up here in my neck-o-the-woods, as I would like to get involved with it.

Please keep us up on how it goes. With some luck, maybe the damage is not too bad and repairable with out disassembly..hope so. But even if not..remember that people have done this very thing before..by themselves..while on uninhabited atolls in the Pacific.
I once edited and then published a 16 installment set of letters from a sailor on Raro in the Pacific, aboard his 27fter..had to remove and rebuild his own diesel engine over the hurricane season ..on hurricane prone Rarotonga. No travel lift or sling available, so had to build his own lift from a mess of WWII discarded steel pipe, a welder from the local street dept. and some axel/tire combos he dug up to make the trailer to haul the boat inland a safe distance. His name was Austin Whitten..currently in New Zealand. He rebuilt the rudder as an after thought, when he discoverd rust seeping from the core.

Keep this site in hand if you get stuck..lots of talented people here with good experience to share with you.

Best of Luck,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

A split has formed in the rudder, along the rudder post of this 1985 31' (LOA) Cape Dory sailboat. Is there a method to purchase these rudders?

demers@sgi.com

[Ken Coit]

I finally got to the correct pile of mags and found the article on rudder repair. Try Pp 33 - 37 of the May / June 2001 issue of Good Old Boat. There is also an article on rudder tubes Pp 38 - 39. Maybe those who need it can get it with their free copy of the mag if they don't already subscribe.

Keep on sailing those good old boats,

Ken
CD/36 Parfait
Raleigh, NC

Heh... Whoa there! Not necessarily..;^) I have done this before though, and after you get over the idea that you are rebuilding a rudder, and the implications of it all.. well, it is actually a fun project. All the elements for success are there; You have the final shape already determined and available for duplication. The work exposes you to the inner sanctum of how a rudder is built using the armature method, and also involves some original thinking on your part as you determine what to remove and what to improve, etc. The end result will be with you for the life of the boat, giving you a sense of satisfaction at repairing a major part of the boat on your own pretty much. That is invaluable for the sailor that seeks indepence from shoreside suppport systems and hired 'experts' that would do the work for you..at a price. Confidence building is an essential part in allowing one to consider pushing the horizon out a bit, and this project can be a large source of confidence building for someone that wants to tackle it.


Lastly, a magazine recently published the whole process for rebuilding a rudder, with great photos too. I am having trouble recalling if it was 'Good Old Boat' or another like Ocean Navigator or Latts and Atts. Will have to see if I can find it for reference.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer

Lynn,

It sounds to me as if Larry needs another winter project. Why don't you ship it to him?

Ken

I don't think you have a choice..it has to be removed and the water drained out of it, rinsed with fresh water and redried. The metal armature (should be S.S., but I don't know if it is or not) that is incorporated into the rudder will now be wet, and with salt water yet. S.S. will rust like any other iron when deprived of oxygen for long..crevice corrosion etc. This you do not want to happen after the split has been dealt with.
In fact..you really need to know what caused it to split in the first place. A leak would do that..the rust that forms expands, allowing more water intrusion, resulting in more rust, which expands etc. (Much like the freeze-thaw effect in rocks). There is only one way to do this repair properly. Remove the rudder, break the two halves open enough to reveal the armature in totality. Inspect it carefully. Rebuild the damaged or removed area of fiberglass if the armature is not rusting at all, and then recombine the two halves as originally done.
A suggestion. Take several good photos of the rudder for shape and size comparison for later use..take photos of the armature too, for future reference should this process happen again downwind in time. You will know where the armature is in relation to the rudder post for instance..could be useful.
If you need to remove one of the halves completely to get at and replace the metal armature, it would be wise to record as much info about the shape of the rudder ahead of time as possible. Make cardboard or door skin cutout of the leading and trailing edges of the rudder, for shape and thickness. Trace out the actual shape on butchers paper..a couple times even. This will be the template by which you rebuild the rudder.

Additionally, you can also make a doorskin gauge of the rudder at various equidistant, and marked stations from top to bottom. What this is, is a plywood piece that has the exact horizontal (fore to aft)shape of the rudder cut into it at the top, bottom and say 3 locations between. Imagine the rudder standing vertical. The plywood would be offered up to the rudder from the sides, and on a horizontal plane, at the top, bottom and 3 other marked and equidistant locations between the two ends. One person holds the ply in place carefully, while the other scribes the shape of the rudder on the ply with a compass. Then the shape would be cut out carefully with a scroll saw. Do it for both sides before any intrusive work is done.

This IS NOT a floating rudder by the by..it weighs probably 100 lbs with the shaft.

Sounds like a very interesting project. Wish you were up here in my neck-o-the-woods, as I would like to get involved with it.

Please keep us up on how it goes. With some luck, maybe the damage is not too bad and repairable with out disassembly..hope so. But even if not..remember that people have done this very thing before..by themselves..while on uninhabited atolls in the Pacific.
I once edited and then published a 16 installment set of letters from a sailor on Raro in the Pacific, aboard his 27fter..had to remove and rebuild his own diesel engine over the hurricane season ..on hurricane prone Rarotonga. No travel lift or sling available, so had to build his own lift from a mess of WWII discarded steel pipe, a welder from the local street dept. and some axel/tire combos he dug up to make the trailer to haul the boat inland a safe distance. His name was Austin Whitten..currently in New Zealand. He rebuilt the rudder as an after thought, when he discoverd rust seeping from the core.

Keep this site in hand if you get stuck..lots of talented people here with good experience to share with you.

Best of Luck,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Lake Superior

pPPParfait@nc.rr.com (del PPP)