Is "she" doomed?

[Jerry Hammernik]

John,
I spend a lot of time, money and effort on my boat. I also spend a lot of time money and effort on my wife (and daughters) and all of them, boat, wife, daughters, take good care of me. So my boat will always be "she" to me. It's a sign of mutual respect. Should my daughters grow up to have a boat and refer to it as "he" I would take it as a personal compliment and positive reflection on my influence in their lives (even if it comes from a boyfriend or husband's influence).

I try to see the reasons for some political correctness issues, one is never to old to learn more about our fellow travelers. But I can't see how anyone could be hurt by having their gender used to refer to something as near and dear to people's hearts as their boat.

So please, let's all use the term that best fits our personal relationship with that wonderful creature of wind and sea, our boat!

Thanks for starting an interesting thread. I never get tired of the wit and wisdom of this board!

Jerry Hammernik
Lion's Paw CD 28 #341

I have two questions for the erudite Cape Dory users of this board. As a boating journalist and author, I am faced with a mounting campaign to refer to boats as "it," rather than "she." Newspapers all over the country use the Associated Press stylebook, which mandates the use of "it," and several major book publishers have also adopted this rule.

While we all recognize the need to avoid sexist expressions in our speech and writing, isn't this taking things too far? After all, ships and boats have been feminine in English for so long now that nobody remembers how it started. Yet perhaps it's time the practice was stopped. I'd like to know if that's so.

So my questions are these:

* Are there any women Cape Dory sailors who object to seeing and hearing boats referred to as "she" and "her"? Conversely, are there any women who think we should retain the traditional usage? Let's hear your opinions, please.

* Does anyone have a good substitute for the word helmsman? It's the word that gives me the most trouble of all these days. Helmsperson and steersperson are too ugly and cumbersome to contemplate. Pilot is a possibility, but is not yet universally understood. Any suggestions?

John Vigor
CD25D "Jabula"

dauntles@execpc.com

[Geezer]

Much of the confusion in this discussion arises from the failure to distinguish between gender and sex. Gender is a grammatical concept, as with the French le chien and la chatte. This does not mean that the French think all dogs are sexually male and cats female. Even in English there is a strong tendency to observe this cat/dog distinction.

Sex is a biological concept, distinguishing men from women.

But assigning "ship" a feminine gender has nothing to with women's lib, or denigrating females or whatever. As other have written here, this is a heritage of our great language which should not be casually discarded. I urge John to vigorously oppose this trend.

That said, I will report that my grandfather, who went to sea at age 14, told me the reason a ship is called "she" is because her riggin' is worth more than her hull.

[zeida]

This board is the reason why after a crazy day's work, I count the minutes it takes me to finish my chores at the house, feed the dog, the cats, myself, clean-up some, get ready for tomorrow, and RUN to the computer and the CD website!... Such a pleasure to read the threads of all you different sailors about being "sexist" by calling boats and ships "she". First thing I looked for, was there any other woman sailor replying to this? Catherine, where are you? Then I had to question myself: what do I think? Like everyone, I have always referred to boats as "her" or "she". But is it right? Should we (women) object to this? And then I thought... I LOVE IT!
The objects of such attention, of such devotion, of such obsession as men have traditionally showered on their vessels, OF COURSE they must be "a SHE!" As a woman sailor, and one who shares the obsession, It made me feel proud that the objects of our attention are indeed of the female gender. What's wrong with that? Boats, ships, vessels, they are objects of beauty in their own way, in the way we all connect with them, in the way we put our lives in their hands... boats have a spirit.. they have a sixth sense! I'm sure we all can relate to that... I hope we all keep calling our beautiful vessels "she". There's love implied in that, no question. From Marco Polo to Francis Drake, to Columbus, to Magellan and everyone else ... they must have ached so much for the care, attention and love they left behind, that the closest thing for them was their ships. And they became "her" and "she"... The power of the female gender! Like Paul McCartney (beatles) said..."Let it be"!



zcecil@attglobal.net

[Leo MacDonald, CD30K]

Hi Zeida, John,

[Like Paul McCartney (Beatles) said..."Let it be"!] - Concur!!

FYI; Cathy (as well as other CD'ers) has already put to sea to meet our Rendezvous 2001 / sailing events commitments I'll relay this question on Tuesday AM at Shelter Isl.

Fair Winds All,
Leo MacDonald, Heather Ann, CD30K #57






macdore@aol.com

[Dan Moore]

If nothing else, John, your questions have generated the most interesting reading on this Board in months. For that, I thank you.
As most of the respondents (male and female) have suggested, the traditions of the seafarers and of the vessels which carried them outweigh any contemporary need for political correctness. Thoughtful mariners will concur.



Ride9618@RIDE.RI.NET

[John Vigor]

Thanks, Leo: I'd be interested to hear what Cathy has to say about it.

Cheers,

John V.



jvigor@qwest.net

[Jack Chamberlain]

As a journalist, I wrote a series of articles about community colleges which the editors entitled "College For Everyman." You never heard such a fuss from the feminine side, particlularly one high school English teacher who should have known that Everyman was a classical reference to all of humanity. I'm am sick of terms like chairperson or chair instead of chairman. What's next? "Hey, you in the street, look out, someone left the cover off that personhole." Actually, that sounds down right rude! So, John, fight the good fight. Resist political correctness. My CD 33 is "Maggie Rose" and she will always be a she to me. My nameless car is an "it." As for helmsman, my wife is a great helmsman. She wouldn't have it any other way.




jchamber@crosslink.net

[Jack Chamberlain]

As a journalist, I once wrote a series about community colleges, which the editors entitled "College for Everyman." Such a fuss, particularly from a high school English teacher who should have known that Everyman was a classical reference to all of humanity. I'm really tired of such terms as chair or chairperson when chairman refers to either gender. What's next? "Hey, you in the street, watch out for that open personhole!" Actually, that sounds rather rude. Our CD 33 is named "Maggie Rose" and she will always be a she. Our nameless car is an it. As for helmsman, my wife is a great helmsman and she wouldn't have it any other way. So, John, keep up the good fight against excessive political correctness. Man the barricades! Oh, sorry. Person the barricades!



jchamber@crosslink.net

[Nautical Traditions Offic]

Captain Vigor,

Reviewed your post and am concerned that for "Politically Correct" reasons a great tradition at sea may be lost. Vessels are typically refered as she for a number of reasons, the most significant being that when at sea, all sailors depend upon the vessel for no less than there LIVES! "SHE" provides shelter from the howling gales, keeps them from drowning, provides sustenance, keeps them warm when it is cold, provides shade when it is hot, and basically takes care of the sailor as a fine woman would ashore.

There are a number of other reasons, a little trival, but still significant. First both a woman and a ship look a lot better with a gallon of paint on 'em, second, they are both broad in the beam, and third, their top hamper is very attractive, also they are both very expensive to maintain! (OH, I'M GOING TO TAKE A BEATING FOR THIS!!), but I'm only kidding.

In short, Sir, refering to a vessel as "She" is NOT demeaning in any sense of the word. It is traditional!!!

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30
Nautical Traditions Officer
CDSOA

[Steve Alarcon]

John,

Those who will be offended by the use of "she" when refering to a vessel, or to terms like "helmsman" or "crewman", will certainly find something else to be offended by once those terms are dehumanized. I suspect that the AP rule book mandates the change so as to avoid litigation costs. My vote is to honor and respect human beings, and hang onto traditions that do not violate those concepts based on your own good consience.

Steve Alarcon
CD36 Tenacity
Seattle



alarcon3@prodigy.net

[alonzo jones]

>>"She's a bitch to get to windward."<<

The proper statement is, "She prefers sailing off the wind."

Compare "She's a bitch to get to windward," with "It's a bitch to get to windward."

One is a crude statement about a particular vessel's sailing characteristics, the other is a fact of life.

This is tooooo funny!!! I just fell out of my chair laughing!

-- alonzo



ltjones@ualr.edu

[Captain Patty]

I have two questions for the erudite Cape Dory users of this board. As a boating journalist and author, I am faced with a mounting campaign to refer to boats as "it," rather than "she." Newspapers all over the country use the Associated Press stylebook, which mandates the use of "it," and several major book publishers have also adopted this rule.

While we all recognize the need to avoid sexist expressions in our speech and writing, isn't this taking things too far? After all, ships and boats have been feminine in English for so long now that nobody remembers how it started. Yet perhaps it's time the practice was stopped. I'd like to know if that's so.

So my questions are these:

* Are there any women Cape Dory sailors who object to seeing and hearing boats referred to as "she" and "her"? Conversely, are there any women who think we should retain the traditional usage? Let's hear your opinions, please.

* Does anyone have a good substitute for the word helmsman? It's the word that gives me the most trouble of all these days. Helmsperson and steersperson are too ugly and cumbersome to contemplate. Pilot is a possibility, but is not yet universally understood. Any suggestions?

John Vigor
CD25D "Jabula"

Although I value the time honored traditional sailing terms I have to admit that sometimes there are simpler words. When racing we often refer to the helmsman as "driver". Hard-a-lee ends up "tacking". In my sailing school business I often hear, "I don't know the terms but I'm a good sailor". In all instances they have turned out not to be even close to good sailors. One actually hanked on the jib upside down and attached the main halyard to the clue! Quite a sight.In reference to a boat being "she" I take that as a great compliment as in what many before me have stated.
Patty



captpatty@aol.com

[Jo Chamberlain]

* Are there any women Cape Dory sailors who object to seeing and hearing boats referred to as "she" and "her"? Conversely, are there any women who think we should retain the traditional usage? Let's hear your opinions, please.

I have always felt a special affinity to the boats we've owned. Each had its own personality. As I skippered a mostly female crew in a distance race this past weekend, I found myself talking to our CD33 Maggie Rose, giving HER words of praise and encouragement as we worked our way up river, against the tide, in light air. She is beautiful, gracious, and a hard worker. Referring to her as an "it" would be nautical sacrilidge. I'm proud to share my gender with her.



jchamber@crosslink.net

[Jo Chamberlain]

* Are there any women Cape Dory sailors who object to seeing and hearing boats referred to as "she" and "her"? Conversely, are there any women who think we should retain the traditional usage? Let's hear your opinions, please.

I have always felt a special affinity to the boats we've owned. Each had its own personality. As I skippered a mostly female crew in a distance race this past weekend, I found myself talking to our CD33 Maggie Rose, giving HER words of praise and encouragement as we worked our way up river, against the tide, in light air. She is beautiful, gracious, and a hard worker. Referring to her as an "it" would be nautical sacrilidge. I'm proud to share my gender with her.



jchamber@crosslink.net

[Pete Turpel]

Mister Vigor:

I took great delight in reading your posting of 7/13/01.

In any event....a boat by any other name is a SHE. Some things a boat does greater than a man....is float across the sea! That means the boat must be a SHE. SHE puts up with a lot, receives much love and complains less.

Still don't make her angry......

Pete Turpel



pete@phoneonhold.com