LOOSE FOOTED MAIN REVIEW

[Larry DeMers]

Last weekend we installed and tested our new UK Sails Loose Footed Main. The sail options that we included in the design were: 3 reef points, double stitching, web reinforcement of all cringles, 7.5 oz cloth, full batten at the top only with a Harken Batt Car, partial battens for the remainder (gives extra drive off the top 6 ft. of the sail), cunningham adjustment, and extra large teflon sailslides to support the anticipated increased loading.

The loose footed sail has a unique feature over the captured foot sail..a bonnet that hangs below the boom, which increases the overall area of the sail. This comes into play more on runs that beating..more on this later.

This sail has a single large sail slide for the boom..at the clew. You provide a set of block and tackle to adjust the outhaul, similar to the standard captured foot sails. The difference is that now, you have 100 % control of the draft of that main, and man o man does it work nice. Changing the position of the clew by 1 foot take sthe sail from essentially flat to a full round belly, so these adjsutments are powerful.

Beating:
Performance with this sail was easily 1 kt faster than the old sail. We had 10-15 kts steady winds, and 1 ft. seas and fog while testing this point of sail. 7.5 kts on the GPS (WAAS), and control of the draft to the point that allowed us to heel 15 deg. in this wind. Later that morning, wind increased to 20 kts with 3 ft. seas. Beating into this was easy, and we used slightly more draft for additional punch through the waves..the power can be felt in your feet on deck. It seems to add to the carry of the boat thru the waves. Heeling seemed easily 3-5 deg. less for any given speed compared to the original 18 yr.old main being replaced.

RUNNING:
Wow..here it shined even more surprisingly. I left the sail flat while switching to a running heading, then I adjusted the sails outhaul to give a large pocket in the sail center. The speedo went from 6 to well over 7.5kts in about 10 sec. and this acceleration actually threw me off balance enough to have to reach for the binnacle guard.

CONCLUSIONS:
I find no bad habits inherent in the loos footed main design, and a pot full of advantages over the vanilla flavored captured foot sail. I will be using the loose footed main from now on, regardless of boat. The additional ability to adjust the draft of this sail in minute increments from 0-100% essentially gives you a variable first reef setting that you can easily set to any wind condition..fast and easy from the cockpit. We saw over 24 kt gusts, and a continuous wind of 20 kts. while beating, and we were no where near reefing at only 15 deg. heel, where formerly, 18 kts was the reef point. So things have improved on DeLaMer.

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailign Lake Superior -faster!~~~~



demers@sgi.com

[Richard Stephens]

Larry,

I got a new main last season for my Typhoon, very similar to yours (full top batten, loose foot). I agree that the draft control and extra area at the foot does make a big difference.

I have four tell-tales down the leech of the main, and I have had a lot of fun tweaking the traveler, outhaul and Cunningham to get them all flying. Maybe I am a closet racer!

Regards,
Richard.



richard@memory-map.com

[Ed Haley]

Maybe I am a closet racer! I think we all are even though some would never admit it!

I had a loose footed main made for my ex-CD28 and found it too made a nice difference. I'm still looking for my next CD (CD330) but have an O'Day DaySailer III that I sail on my lake. I just had the main modified from a captured-foot to a loose foot and hope to see the same difference. I'm gonna try it out today. The original main could not be shaped to eliminate a belly. Hopefully I can do so now.

I liked Larry's idea on DeLaMer's main although I would have put battcars completely down the luff. His increased performance should make him a winner when he begins tweaking his sails in his role as a closet racer, which I'm sure he is! Thanks for the input, Larry!



eghaley@twcny.rr.com

[Warren Kaplan]

Larry,
A VERY timely review since Sine Qua Non is begging me for a new mainsail. (Actually I'm begging me...but that's another story).
A few questions. You mentioned that while beating the wind rose to 20kts and 3 ft seas. You increased the draft (read more belly in the sail) to punch thru the waves and you healed 3-5 deg less at that boat speed than with the old sail and comparable boat speed. Do you attribute that you healed less than with the old sail to the fact that you could reach that boat speed with less wind speed, therefore lessening "healing pressure" to get that boat speed? Let me ask you this. Leaving boat speed aside and just considering the same wind speed on the sails, do you think DeLaMer would still heal less with the new sail AND fuller draft than with the old sail and lesser draft? Shesh! Talk about confusing sentences.
Couple of other small questions. I know you mentioned that that "bonnet" hanging below the boom adds to sail area, but is the new sail significantly larger in sail area than the old sail? Also, what is the effect on weather helm when increasing draft that much? Did it cause any big problems there? Last, and really of minor interest, did you have to make any adjustments to lazy jacks or dutchman's with the loose foot? Sounds like you are gonna' have alot of fun with this sail this summer.
Thanks as always,
Warren
S/V Sine Qua Non
CD27



Setsail728@aol.com

[Mike Wainfeld]

Richard-I'll also be needing a new main for my Typhoon. Who made your new sail? Were you happy with the sailmaker? Can anyone else recommend a sailmaker on Long Island? Thanks.

Mike Wainfeld



mwainfeld@erols.com

[Catherine Monaghan]

Mike,

If you want the same sail that Larry purchased, there's a UK loft on City Island, NY.

All of Realization's sails are UK sails and they all came from that loft. We have been very satisfied with them. Our newest sail, purchased in 1996, is a UK Flasher (cruising spinnaker).

Their contact info follows:

<a href="http://www.uksailmakers.com/">UK Sailmakers</a>
175 City Island Ave.
City Island, NY 10464
Tel: 718-885-1700 800-992-9422
Fax: 718-885-1726
E-mail: uknewyork@uksailmakers.com
Contacts: Butch Ulmer, Kerry Klingler, Tom Nye


catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

Richard-I'll also be needing a new main for my Typhoon. Who made your new sail? Were you happy with the sailmaker? Can anyone else recommend a sailmaker on Long Island? Thanks.

Mike Wainfeld

catherine_monaghan@merck.com

[Ron Musk]

Last weekend we installed and tested our new UK Sails Loose Footed Main. The sail options that we included in the design were: 3 reef points, double stitching, web reinforcement of all cringles, 7.5 oz cloth, full batten at the top only with a Harken Batt Car, partial battens for the remainder (gives extra drive off the top 6 ft. of the sail), cunningham adjustment, and extra large teflon sailslides to support the anticipated increased loading.

The loose footed sail has a unique feature over the captured foot sail..a bonnet that hangs below the boom, which increases the overall area of the sail. This comes into play more on runs that beating..more on this later.

This sail has a single large sail slide for the boom..at the clew. You provide a set of block and tackle to adjust the outhaul, similar to the standard captured foot sails. The difference is that now, you have 100 % control of the draft of that main, and man o man does it work nice. Changing the position of the clew by 1 foot take sthe sail from essentially flat to a full round belly, so these adjsutments are powerful.

Beating:
Performance with this sail was easily 1 kt faster than the old sail. We had 10-15 kts steady winds, and 1 ft. seas and fog while testing this point of sail. 7.5 kts on the GPS (WAAS), and control of the draft to the point that allowed us to heel 15 deg. in this wind. Later that morning, wind increased to 20 kts with 3 ft. seas. Beating into this was easy, and we used slightly more draft for additional punch through the waves..the power can be felt in your feet on deck. It seems to add to the carry of the boat thru the waves. Heeling seemed easily 3-5 deg. less for any given speed compared to the original 18 yr.old main being replaced.

RUNNING:
Wow..here it shined even more surprisingly. I left the sail flat while switching to a running heading, then I adjusted the sails outhaul to give a large pocket in the sail center. The speedo went from 6 to well over 7.5kts in about 10 sec. and this acceleration actually threw me off balance enough to have to reach for the binnacle guard.

CONCLUSIONS:
I find no bad habits inherent in the loos footed main design, and a pot full of advantages over the vanilla flavored captured foot sail. I will be using the loose footed main from now on, regardless of boat. The additional ability to adjust the draft of this sail in minute increments from 0-100% essentially gives you a variable first reef setting that you can easily set to any wind condition..fast and easy from the cockpit. We saw over 24 kt gusts, and a continuous wind of 20 kts. while beating, and we were no where near reefing at only 15 deg. heel, where formerly, 18 kts was the reef point. So things have improved on DeLaMer.

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Sailign Lake Superior -faster!~~~~

Larry,
Your review sounds very convincing and is appreciated.I will give loose footedness serious consideration when we are ready for a new main,(next year maybe).Did you modify your out haul with a track or was the standard set up satisfactory.I assume you adjust more frequently with the new sail.It's a grand feeling when something works out better than expected!
Ron Musk
s/v "R&R"
CD30



ccerre@massed.net

[Richard]

Richard-I'll also be needing a new main for my Typhoon. Who made your new sail?

Mike,

Here's my post on the subject last year, when the sail was new:
<a href=http://www.toolworks.com/cgi-bin/tw/wwb ... i?cd&13944>
http://www.toolworks.com/cgi-bin/tw/wwb ... d&13944</a>

Regards,
Richard.



richard@memory-map.com

[Bob Padlowski]

Richard-I'll also be needing a new main for my Typhoon. Who made your new sail? Were you happy with the sailmaker? Can anyone else recommend a sailmaker on Long Island? Thanks.

Hello Mike,

I also replaced my sails last year on my CD27. I used UK Sails on City Island. Tom Nye is the guy you'll want to speak to in the loft; he really knows his stuff. I followed his (seemingly radical) design recommendations, and it worked out better than I hoped. The sails he made fit perfectly, are extremely well-made, and added at least 1-1.5 kt of speed under many conditions. Light-air performance is now incredible; as you know, that's an issue on LI Sound. Previously, the boat would barely move in light winds, sails slatting; eventually, we'd turn on the "iron genny". No more!

I'm very pleased with UK. They cut a lot of racing sails, too. Their phone number is 718-885-1700. Check out their website - I included the link below. My boat was in Mamaroneck, NY at the time my sails were made. I'm sure L.I. is no problem for them.

I cannot emphasize the huge difference in speed and handling the new sails have made.

Good luck!

Bob



rpadlowski@hotmail.com

[Bob Padlowski]

Last weekend we installed and tested our new UK Sails Loose Footed Main.

Larry,

We recently bought a similar suit of sails from UK in City Island. In our case though, we got the "Batmain", which has 4 full-length battens. Tom Nye at UK talked me into it, and I'm glad he did. On Long Island Sound, we often get very light winds midsummer; the full battens make all the difference in the world in the light air. The sail holds it shape much better with the full-length battens under those conditions. The slight downside of the big battens is that we've got to be dead into the wind when raising the main, or the battens will either jam the slide in the mast track or hang up in the lazy jacks. It's a minor convenience but well worth it for all the performance gain we're getting.

We didn't get the battcars though. Did you have to attach a rail to the mast for the battcar to ride in?

What arrangement of blocks and cleat do you have to control the outhaul? My boat came with none at all, and I'm wondering what would be best.

We also bought the "Passagemaker", a 150 genoa; it's on a harken roller furler. It seemed huge, as we formerly used a 135, but it also helps a lot in light air. Big sail, though! They are both beautifully made, well-engineered sails.

We also added a rigid boom vang, and discarded the fixed wire topping lift. With the extra roach on the main, the wire would really chafe on the wire.

Bob Padlowski

S/V "Abigail"
CD27



rpadlowski@hotmail.com

[Larry DeMers]

Bob,

To your note:

We didn't get the battcars though. Did you have to attach a rail to the mast for the battcar to ride in?

No, the top batten is the only full batten, so the torquing you are experiencing on the batt car does not happen with only the top batten being full, yet we do not get any flogging of the sail when it stalls because the top of the sail would stall first, and it is held steady, preventing it from starting the flogging action.. enough to allow you time to correct the angle of attack to prevent flogging.

What arrangement of blocks and cleat do you have to control the outhaul? My boat came with none at all, and I'm wondering what would be best.

We installed a double Harken block on the boom end, in the lower hole of the end plate..just under the topping lift attachment. Then we put on a Harken double block with becket on the sail clew, and then mounted a 5 in. cleat on the boom side, slightly canted towards the sail to allow fair leads.

To adjust the outhaul, I bring her into the wind a bit, to relieve some sail pressure, and simply undo the cleated line, pull it in one handed (the Harken Blocks REALLY make a difference here). The tension is low, and the adjustment is fast and very easy.

We also bought the "Passagemaker", a 150 genoa; it's on a harken roller furler. It seemed huge, as we formerly used a 135, but it also helps a lot in light air. Big sail, though! They are both beautifully made, well-engineered sails.

Good Info, as we are going to replace our 140% genoa next year. There is a wide choice of makers for that sail, and the differences are in some cases major. I bet you will love that 150.. That IS the secret to getting the CD's moving by the way..a large reefing genoa with foam luff and reinforcement of the last half of the sail, where it will be used in higher winds. Our current genoa is a Hild 140 which was made with 3 cloth weights..each progressively heavier for the expected heavier winds a reefed genoa would be used in, It's 18 years old now, so ready for the spare sailcloth heap in the garage..that heap is getting a mite high these days.

We also added a rigid boom vang, and discarded the fixed wire topping lift. With the extra roach on the main, the wire would really chafe on the wire.

Well, we found that the sail is meant to support the boom while aloft, so we loosened the topping lift to allow this to happen. Consequently, the sail, when tacking does not abrade the topping lift wire at all. It rarely even touches it in fact. But it sure would if you kept the topping lift tension too tight, not letting the mains leech take the load of the boom.

Cheers! and great sailing


Larry DeMers

Bob Padlowski

S/V "Abigail"
CD27

demers@sgi.com

[Larry DeMers]

Ron,

Nope, we used the provided teflon impregnated sail slug that fits in the booms bolt rope channel, then added 2 double blocks (Harken), one with a becket (the block with becket is mounted to the sail clew).
Yes, you are right..I am now learning that this adjustment will win the race for you! (not that i race much..one time in my whole life..and finished 5th of 10). It is a seriously powerful adjustment..far, far more powerful than main sheet car positioning for instance. Even more powerful than using a cunningham, which I also have mounted on the main.

Combining an outhaul for the boom mounted staysail with the mains outhaul, I am super pleased with the variety of 'reefing' setups I have at our discretion. We were in 20 kts continually, with some gusts topping 25 Sunday and Monday, and we never exceeded 20 deg. heel with all sails flying full. This would have been a definite reefed sail with the old main, which usually got reefed at 18. We never even considered reefing in fact...just flatten the main a little more, and we maintained our 6.5 kts to windward just dandy.

Cheers!

Larry

Larry,
Your review sounds very convincing and is appreciated.I will give loose footedness serious consideration when we are ready for a new main,(next year maybe).Did you modify your out haul with a track or was the standard set up satisfactory.I assume you adjust more frequently with the new sail.It's a grand feeling when something works out better than expected!
Ron Musk
s/v "R&R"
CD30

demers@sgi.com

[Larry DeMers]

Hi Warren!
Good Questions Sir! To your letter for clarity:

Larry,
A VERY timely review since Sine Qua Non is begging me for a new mainsail. (Actually I'm begging me...but that's another story).

Yeah, that is probably the truth for about 90 % of our upgrades the past two years..but the boat appreciates it by going faster and looking better too.

A few questions. You mentioned that while beating the wind rose to 20kts and 3 ft seas. You increased the draft (read more belly in the sail) to punch thru the waves and you healed 3-5 deg less at that boat speed than with the old sail and comparable boat speed. Do you attribute that you healed less than with the old sail to the fact that you could reach that boat speed with less wind speed, therefore lessening "healing pressure" to get that boat speed?

Yes, along with the fact that the draft is farther forward (where it really needs to be), so when it is enlarged for power, you slip it back to where the old sail (god rest her faithful sail type soul) used to be when it's outhaul was tight. A big difference in performance.

Let me ask you this. Leaving boat speed aside and just considering the same wind speed on the sails, do you think DeLaMer would still heal less with the new sail AND fuller draft than with the old sail and lesser draft? Shesh! Talk about confusing sentences.

Yup, that is our impression. The forward speed being totally higher than with the old sail, makes the comparison still a little tricky, as the keel is moving through the water faster, thus generating more lift also. But the undeniable fact is that we never reached 20 deg. heeling this weekend, while the N.E. winds were in the 20-25 kt range for about half of the two day sail. Sails were all full and we were making good 6.5 kts avg. on GPS (WAAS [= more accurate speeds]).

Couple of other small questions. I know you mentioned that that "bonnet" hanging below the boom adds to sail area, but is the new sail significantly larger in sail area than the old sail?

Not really. It's kinda funny looking up and seeing basicly the same looking sail, but then I look up at the windicator and see that we are well within the 45 deg. 'no-sail' zone of the indicator..never came close to this before. This 'bonnet' will add to the total sail area especially downwind..where the loose footed-ness *really* adds boat speed. Up wind it's pointing ability..5-10 deg. to the apparent winds..tacking thru 30-35 deg. regularly..when we had good winds to do so. Downwind, it's boat speed that impproves, by opening the outhaul up wide, and forming a mini-spinnaker sort of. We gianed 2 kts easily here.

Also, what is the effect on weather helm when increasing draft that much? Did it cause any big problems there?

There may have been some increase in weather helm, but realize that my cutoff point before reefing for weatherhelm is the wheel's Top Dead Center moving 90 deg. either way. If I exceed that parameter, I reef. We hit maybe 75 deg. a few times in gusts but mainly we were about 1-2 spokes into weatherhelm, which is about perfect. I can trim most of that excessive weatherhelm out..in moderate winds of course. High winds in the 30-45kts range will have to wait until we encounter them, which we will fairly soon I expect, as we will be sailing non stop for 3 weeks starting on the 18th of June.

Last, and really of minor interest, did you have to make any adjustments to lazy jacks or dutchman's with the loose foot?

Yes, the lazy jacks had to loosened a mite to accomodate the occasional full belly (not mine..I lost weight!..the sails!). This may induce us to add some lite shock cording to allow some control of the tension of the lazy jacks.

Sounds like you are gonna' have alot of fun with this sail this summer.

Absolutely! You know how you anticipate a steak dinner ahead of time..you gotta be hungry to get this effect I guess, and it's almost lunch time here, so it fits..well that is the anticipation we are into now. 6 weeks of solid sailing time all total, in two 3 week segments. All in Nothern Superior waters..the only worry is the weather up here is still in the 30's a night, and 45 during the day, so the lake has not shifted out of winter patterns yet. We could get snow or ice but hey, that's what the fireplace is for!~

Cheers and Beers!


Larry

Thanks as always,
Warren
S/V Sine Qua Non
CD27

demers@sgi.com The Loose Footed Guy...

[Larry DeMers]

I can ceratinly recommend UK sails for the work they did with our main and staysails. They were the lowest price for the option we needed..er, wanted.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer

Richard-I'll also be needing a new main for my Typhoon. Who made your new sail? Were you happy with the sailmaker? Can anyone else recommend a sailmaker on Long Island? Thanks.

Mike Wainfeld

demers@sgi.com

[Larry DeMers]

You are certainly welcome.

Just to clarify, we onl y have a single full batten..at the very top. The rest are partial battens. We get the best advantage the full batten sail gives one..sail control when a non-full top batten main would be luffing. We also do not have the problem with Batt cars jamming up unless the sail is completely unloaded when being hoisted or dropped. Nor do we have the cost for good cars like Harken. Only one car is needed, and it moves smoothly because it is on a short 'full batten'-only 3 ft. long.

Larry DeMers

Maybe I am a closet racer! I think we all are even though some would never admit it!

I had a loose footed main made for my ex-CD28 and found it too made a nice difference. I'm still looking for my next CD (CD330) but have an O'Day DaySailer III that I sail on my lake. I just had the main modified from a captured-foot to a loose foot and hope to see the same difference. I'm gonna try it out today. The original main could not be shaped to eliminate a belly. Hopefully I can do so now.

I liked Larry's idea on DeLaMer's main although I would have put battcars completely down the luff. His increased performance should make him a winner when he begins tweaking his sails in his role as a closet racer, which I'm sure he is! Thanks for the input, Larry!

demers@sgi.com