I just returned from New Zealand getting my son off to University there and looked at a few boats for sale. One was a 40 some year old Des Townson 47 one off made of three skin native wood diagonal and longitudinal planks and sheathed over with fiberglass cloth. NZ was known for this building technique and they do it very well, producing high quality, strong and lightweight hulls. This particular boat had circumnavigated and it would need some refitting but while not as much as a carvel planked boat, somewhat more than a fully glass hulled boat. Still, it was a cool construction technique and certainly has stood the test of time.
I am a GRP hull man all the way though and love my Cape Dory's extra lay up hull and thick gelcoat. I have brought several boats back from the dead and I still thank god the wooden one was only a little Optimist! I was following the sale of Mayan, David Crosby's stunning John Alden wooden schooner and thought that even if I were capable of spending that amount I would still likely go for an GRP hull for serious voyaging. It is just a better material. However with that kind of funding I could see saving some of those beauties for posterity and as youth training and boatbuilding skill training vessels as a way of giving back - and having a great sail.
In canoe and portage country here in MN, Joe Seliga (Look him up) built wood canvas canoes and they are amazing things to behold and paddle in. He designed everything to be functional for the job at hand with the materials he had. I've worked on a bunch of them and seen young people have life changing adventures in them on extended wilderness canoe trips here and in Ontario. In fact, Camp Menogyn restores and maintains a fleet of working wood canvas canoes just for this reason and as a teaching tool for respect. But I asked a friend who worked with Joe and we both agreed that if he was designing and building canoes today he would use some form of glass reinforced plastic and modern materials. That is a craftsman's job I reckon.
I think us CD owners are lucky. We've a brand that took the best material at the time for the job, did their best to build a solid hull and deck and this material is still primarily the dominant thing used for cruising boats today - though there are carbon and kevlar variations and vacuum bagging refinements etc. CD's in general are built better than the average GRP sailboat. (Ask me how I know this!) So our boats should still go strong for a long while and still be able to be brought back from neglect with a reasonable amount of energy for an average Joe.
Well played Mr. Alberg and Mr. Vavolotis. Dare I say it - "A Standard of Value"!
The Voyages of H.W Tilman
Moderator: Jim Walsh
Re: The Voyages of H.W Tilman
Paul
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- Dick Kobayashi
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Re: The Voyages of H.W Tilman
fyi H.W. Tilman books seem to be available on Amazon in Kindle form, purchasable one by one or as a set. The bio also. I got the bio for $1.99 as a starter.
Dick K
CD 25D Susan B #104
Mattapoisett, MA
Fleet Captain - Northeast Fleet 2014/2015
Tempus Fugit. And not only that, it goes by fast. (Ron Vacarro 1945 - 1971)
CD 25D Susan B #104
Mattapoisett, MA
Fleet Captain - Northeast Fleet 2014/2015
Tempus Fugit. And not only that, it goes by fast. (Ron Vacarro 1945 - 1971)
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Re: The Voyages of H.W Tilman
Dick Kobayashi wrote:fyi H.W. Tilman books seem to be available on Amazon in Kindle form, purchasable one by one or as a set. The bio also. I got the bio for $1.99 as a starter.
The bios. So far as I know there are two:
1. High Mtns, Cold Seas by Anderson. Written in 1980. 400 pages. Anderson had access to Tilman's family, his log books, people who climbed and sailed with him as well as access to thousands of his letters dating back to his service as an artillery officer in WWI. Highly regarded. Anderson was a sailor and led at least one expedition to Newfoundland retracing the Viking routes. He knew Tilman personally. Anderson was nearly 70 years old when he wrote the bio in 1980. So more a man of Tilman's time perhaps viewing him through a similar lens. Perhaps his judgment of Tilman was colored by his esteem and friendship with him. I am reading this book now. So far, just superb.
2. The Last Hero by Tim Madge. 1995. 270 pages. A Phd candidate when he wrote the book. Reviews are mixed. His bio on the back overleaf states he is a "yacht master, pilot, climber, adventurer". I have not read this book yet. I read complaints on-line that Madge never interviewed the people who knew Tilman, climbed with him, or sailed with him and who were still alive and available when he wrote the book. Reviews of The Last Hero suggest it was more critical of Tilman in a salacious way. People that seemed to know state Madge wrote the book based on Tilman's books and the bio by Anderson rather than original source material. Not a fan of revisionist history if that's what it is. I don't know any of this first hand. I'll read it next. But I have a low tolerance for hit jobs or writing that is intended to provide publicity for the author at the expense of the subject.
Interestingly, Tim Madge wrote the forward to the 2017 reprint of Anderson's 1980 bio. It was a weird forward. It didn't make sense. But you can read it for yourself.
If you have to choose one I would recommend High Mtns, Cold Seas at this point.
MTF.
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Re: The Voyages of H.W Tilman
I finished High Mountains and Cold Seas. Great book. Marvelous read. What a stud.
I just started Wooden Boats as recommended by Tim. Very entertaining. I'll have more to say about it later but I am really enjoying it. About 50 pages in at the moment. No, I don't want a leaky wood boat....just thought I would get that out of the way up front.
I just started Wooden Boats as recommended by Tim. Very entertaining. I'll have more to say about it later but I am really enjoying it. About 50 pages in at the moment. No, I don't want a leaky wood boat....just thought I would get that out of the way up front.
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Re: The Voyages of H.W Tilman
You don't want a leaky wood boat yet...John Stone wrote:I just started Wooden Boats as recommended by Tim. Very entertaining. I'll have more to say about it later but I am really enjoying it. About 50 pages in at the moment. No, I don't want a leaky wood boat....
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Re: The Voyages of H.W Tilman
Hey John,
This is in reference to the wooden boat aspect of this thread rather than the Tilman books.
I think you are right that nowadays true wooden construction (as opposed to composite wood/fiberglass, for example) is only for either the very rich or for those rare people with the time, motivation, and skill who can do all the work themselves.
You wrote about how there are some beautiful wooden boats out there, and while I agree, I don't think that is the charm of wood; there are plenty of boats of other materials (with varnished wood accents on deck of course, and wooden interiors) that are just as beautiful as the wooden ones. The Far Reach is a perfect example. To me the real charm of true wooden construction is the feel of the boat underway. Wooden boat construction produces a boat that yields and flexes subtly in the waves, and that flexing acts as a kind of shock absorber that makes the seas smoother and more pleasant. To this day there are lobster fishermen in Maine who insist on wooden boats even though they know they won't last as long as fiberglass boats, yet they still buy them for this very reason; these guys are on their feet for 16 hours a day in the high season and they believe that a wooden boat is kinder on their bodies than fiberglass. Having sailed on a few classic wooden boats I have to say that I agree. The difference in motion between a wooden boat and a fiberglass boat is subtle, but to someone who has spent enough time on the sea it is discernable and quite seductive.
As for myself, barring winning the lottery I would never own a wooden boat, but I'm happy to pay money now and then to sail on wooden boats that other people maintain. If you have never sailed on a true wooden boat in a decent-sized sea, you have missed an experience. You should try it at least once in your life. Come up to Maine and go out for a daysail on one of the old wooden Friendship sloops (do your research because some Friendship sloops are fiberglass), or take a multi-day trip on one of the old schooners. But be careful--you might be smitten and have to go out and build a woody!
Smooth sailing,
Jim
This is in reference to the wooden boat aspect of this thread rather than the Tilman books.
I think you are right that nowadays true wooden construction (as opposed to composite wood/fiberglass, for example) is only for either the very rich or for those rare people with the time, motivation, and skill who can do all the work themselves.
You wrote about how there are some beautiful wooden boats out there, and while I agree, I don't think that is the charm of wood; there are plenty of boats of other materials (with varnished wood accents on deck of course, and wooden interiors) that are just as beautiful as the wooden ones. The Far Reach is a perfect example. To me the real charm of true wooden construction is the feel of the boat underway. Wooden boat construction produces a boat that yields and flexes subtly in the waves, and that flexing acts as a kind of shock absorber that makes the seas smoother and more pleasant. To this day there are lobster fishermen in Maine who insist on wooden boats even though they know they won't last as long as fiberglass boats, yet they still buy them for this very reason; these guys are on their feet for 16 hours a day in the high season and they believe that a wooden boat is kinder on their bodies than fiberglass. Having sailed on a few classic wooden boats I have to say that I agree. The difference in motion between a wooden boat and a fiberglass boat is subtle, but to someone who has spent enough time on the sea it is discernable and quite seductive.
As for myself, barring winning the lottery I would never own a wooden boat, but I'm happy to pay money now and then to sail on wooden boats that other people maintain. If you have never sailed on a true wooden boat in a decent-sized sea, you have missed an experience. You should try it at least once in your life. Come up to Maine and go out for a daysail on one of the old wooden Friendship sloops (do your research because some Friendship sloops are fiberglass), or take a multi-day trip on one of the old schooners. But be careful--you might be smitten and have to go out and build a woody!
Smooth sailing,
Jim