Black Box Theory--Inspect that Rig!

[John Stone]

As I get ready to sail home I start inspecting the rig very carefully. I always climb the mast before an offshore passage looking at the tangs and wire splices and the supporting hardware that keeps the mast up.

I climbed this morning and on the way up I did a double take on the forestay (stays'l) tang. It is what the top of the forestay is bolted to to secure it to the mast. It had two loose bolts! And not loose a little. Maybe three turns out for each. I had the tools I needed with me so I tightened them down. No pictures of the fitting. Sorry.

When I got back down on deck I noticed a little chafe on the jib halyard where it passes through the halyard diverter when the jib is hoisted. So I cut the buntline hitch from the shackle which allowed me to shorten it a few inches to position the diverter on new line. I used a butane micro-torch and a metal putty knife to cut and burn lines at the same time. Then I whipped the line.

As I was cleaning the shackle I noticed it was broken! Amazing. A chunk of the cheek had broken off. I dug through my spares box and found another. Then secured the halyard to the new shackle with another buntline hitch.

This is just another example of the wisdom reflected by John Vigors Black Box Theory.

http://johnvigor.blogspot.com/2014/02/t ... y.html?m=1

Happy and safe sailing.

[Paul D.]

I love the buntline hitch and use it frequently. Good catches John on the rig inspection. I agree it is important to do regular checks. Though much less needed up here on the great lakes, I love it when someone gives me grief for going up the mast in the spring without something to fix. Generally, they get an earful.

Having been up there gives me a good feeling come a few weeks later when you are in 30 plus knots.

Have a good passage friend.

[gonesail]

buntline hitch .. another knot for me to learn. good luck with your voyage back to the US.

[wikakaru]

Good thing you found those items--they both would have been a problem to handle at sea, especially if the halyard or shackle broke while the sail was up and you lost the halyard in the mast.

Maybe a little Loctite is needed on the bolts that came loose? If they loosened once, what's to keep it from happening again? Loctite can also help prevent dissimilar metal corrosion.

Smooth sailing,

Jim

[John Stone]

Good thing you found those items--they both would have been a problem to handle at sea, especially if the halyard or shackle broke while the sail was up and you lost the halyard in the mast.

Maybe a little Loctite is needed on the bolts that came loose? If they loosened once, what's to keep it from happening again? Loctite can also help prevent dissimilar metal corrosion.

Smooth sailing,

Jim

I agree 100 percent. I thought about the loc-tite but was worried about taking a bolt out and not being able to get it lined up with the backing plate when I reinstalled it half way up the mast.

[wikakaru]

I thought about the loc-tite but was worried about taking a bolt out and not being able to get it lined up with the backing plate when I reinstalled it half way up the mast.

Maybe you could back the bolt out a little, slather the exposed threads in Loctite, and screw it back in. I would think some of the Loctite would make it into the mast threads. Do you have any way of knowing how long the bolt is so you know how much you have to play with if you only partially remove it? Maybe a photo during the build?

Smooth sailing,

Jim

[John Stone]

I thought about the loc-tite but was worried about taking a bolt out and not being able to get it lined up with the backing plate when I reinstalled it half way up the mast.

Maybe you could back the bolt out a little, slather the exposed threads in Loctite, and screw it back in. I would think some of the Loctite would make it into the mast threads. Do you have any way of knowing how long the bolt is so you know how much you have to play with if you only partially remove it? Maybe a photo during the build?

Smooth sailing,

Jim

Thought about that. Went back through my photos but the file photos of the mast build is not with me.

So I think "do no harm" is what I have to keep in mind. In other words, don't make it worse. I'll keep an eye on it with my binos. When I get home and install the furler I can make a more permanent fix.

Least that is what I am thinking at this point.

[Jim Walsh]

I thought about the loc-tite but was worried about taking a bolt out and not being able to get it lined up with the backing plate when I reinstalled it half way up the mast.

Maybe you could back the bolt out a little, slather the exposed threads in Loctite, and screw it back in. I would think some of the Loctite would make it into the mast threads. Do you have any way of knowing how long the bolt is so you know how much you have to play with if you only partially remove it? Maybe a photo during the build?

Smooth sailing,

Jim

Thought about that. Went back through my photos but the file photos of the mast build is not with me.

So I think "do no harm" is what I have to keep in mind. In other words, don't make it worse. I'll keep an eye on it with my binos. When I get home and install the furler I can make a more permanent fix.

Least that is what I am thinking at this point.

Three turns might give you enough to apply a few drops of blue Loctite….which tends to travel down the threads, perhaps travel enough to reach the backing plate and provide a secure fit. It certainly couldn’t hurt. Even a bead of super glue under the head of the bolt might offer just enough resistance to keep them from working out again. I’m betting it wouldn’t take much force to keep them in place. Once you’re at sea the entire boat and all its components are a constant motion machine. Some don’t appreciate this concept and pay the price. Luckily you do recognize this and did a rig inspection while in harbor.
On a separate note that shackle failure is scary. Glad you spotted that. It would have waited for the most inopportune time to fail completely.

[John Stone]

Jim Walsh quote:
Three turns might give you enough to apply a few drops of blue Loctite….which tends to travel down the threads, perhaps travel enough to reach the backing plate and provide a secure fit. It certainly couldn’t hurt. Even a bead of super glue under the head of the bolt might offer just enough resistance to keep them from working out again. I’m betting it wouldn’t take much force to keep them in place. Once you’re at sea the entire boat and all its components are a constant motion machine. Some don’t appreciate this concept and pay the price. Luckily you do recognize this and did a rig inspection while in harbor.
On a separate note that shackle failure is scary. Glad you spotted that. It would have waited for the most inopportune time to fail completely.
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You guys are going to make it so I can't sleep. LOL. I'll think about it.

These two upper bolts are horizontally oriented. There is a lower bolt that is firmly attached. So the lower one is a non issue. I don't think locktite is going to do much with the little bit of thread I'd be willing to expose. If I lose access to that backing plate I might as well not even have a stays'l. And if it came out under sail it would be bad but it won't break my rig. The forestay is not structural. I could fly the stays'l free from the jib halyard. I'm just doing basic risk analysis here. My thinking is Indon't want to make a reasonable situation worse by performing exploratory surgery and create a problem I can't fix without pulling the mast.

But I'll mull on it some more. I am not being critical of the recommendations. Getting experienced honest input is what this forum is all about. So thanks very much even if I choose to let it be.

MTF

[Tom Keevil]

We did a routine mast inspection once before heading off on an overnight trip off the Oregon Coast, and discovered that one of the shrouds was missing the cotter pin from the clevis pin in the tang. That was sobering, and instructive. As we get older, climbing the mast becomes more challenging, but we still do it annually.

[wikakaru]

If I lose access to that backing plate I might as well not even have a stays'l. And if it came out under sail it would be bad but it won't break my rig. The forestay is not structural. I could fly the stays'l free from the jib halyard. I'm just doing basic risk analysis here. My thinking is Indon't want to make a reasonable situation worse by performing exploratory surgery and create a problem I can't fix without pulling the mast.

If the inner stay isn't structural in any way then it's less of an issue. If you happened to be standing below it when it let go, or if it the fitting went through a deck hatch, or fell overboard and snagged the prop, those could all be problems. But "do no harm" is a good creed. You know for sure that you can loosen the bolt as loose as it was before you tightened it. If that's not enough to get some Loctite in there, then I'd be inclined to wait until you got home.

Smooth sailing,

Jim