Hand signals between bow and helm
Moderator: Jim Walsh
- wikakaru
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Jan 13th, '18, 16:19
- Location: 1980 Typhoon #1697 "Dory"; 1981 CD22 #41 "Arietta"
Hand signals between bow and helm
(This is in response to a tangent about hand signals that occurred in the thread http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... 05#p218205).
My wife and I use a set of hand signals for maneuvering the boat when we need to operate with one person on the bow and the other at the helm. This is useful when picking up or dropping a mooring or when deploying or retrieving the anchor. While it is not all that uncommon for couples to use hand signals for steering like this, I think the system we use is unique. I have certainly never seen anyone else use one quite like it.
With many systems we have observed other people using, the person at the bow points in the direction they want the boat to go. The problem with this is that the person at the helm can't visually determine what angle the person at the bow is actually pointing in. We were guests aboard a boat where a married couple used this system, and at the end of trying to anchor the boat they were both stressed out and mad at each other. It was stressful for us just watching them anchor, so I can imagine how stressful it was for them pinning the anchoring safety of their pride and joy to this process.
OVERVIEW
The basic idea of our system is that the person at the bow is essentially "driving" the boat, while the person at the helm is essentially a visually-operated remote autopilot. It's like in movies of big ships, where the captain says, "slow ahead, 1/3 right rudder". The commands go to the engine room; the captain just talks. In this case, instead of talking the person at the foredeck is using hand signals.
The advantage of this system is that the person at the bow has a much better view of the object in the water, and can judge distances to nearby objects better than the person at the helm, and therefore can direct the boat better.
The set of hand signals we use is based roughly on bicycle hand signals for turning and stopping. While there are other hand signal systems that could also be adapted, I chose bicycles as the root because both I and my wife already knew and understood them, so there was less of a learning curve. If you don't know bicycle hand signals, try here: https://www.bikelaw.com/2021/03/bike-hand-signals/
The system is also designed to be done with one hand, so if you need the other hand to hold the boat hook or the washdown pump nozzle, or to hold on for dear life, that hand is available.
There are two types of commands: throttle/gear commands and direction commands. They work in fundamentally different ways: with throttle/gear commands, the throttle and/or shifter stay set in the same position until a different command is given; with direction commands, the helm is operated in the indicated direction only so long as the command is being given, and if no command is given the helm is centered.
(All of the following assume that the person at the bow is facing forwards, with their back to the helmsman.)
TURNING COMMANDS
The direction commands are basically bicycle turning commands. You can do them with either hand. Signaling with the left hand, to indicate left rudder, point left; to indicate right rudder, raise the left arm bent 90 degrees, with shoulder-to-elbow horizontal and the forearm upward. I also stick my thumb out pointing to the right so it enhances the idea I want a right turn. If you are signaling with the right hand, then extending the arm rightward means turn right, and the raised 90 degree arm (with thumb pointing left) means turn left.
When you quit signaling the turn, the helmsman returns the helm to center.
Agree in advance on a standard amount that the helm will be turned--so many spokes of the wheel, or to a specific position of the tiller. Start with whatever is half-way to the rudder locks and see how it works for your boat. You may need to adjust this amount of rudder based on how maneuverable your boat is. Practice a few times and figure it out before you use the system for real.
Sometimes you need to signal a hard turn--all the way to the rudder stops. For this you emphasize the turning gesture. So if you are pointing left to go left, move your left hand in and out a little while pointing to indicate hard left. If you are using the right-angle raised arm to indicate the turn to the other side than the one your arm is raised on, swing your thumb-pointing hand a bit towards your head then back to vertical. As long as you are making the emphasized motion the helm stays hard over in that direction. If you stop emphasizing, the helm returns to standard rudder, and if you stop the hand signal, the helm returns to center.
THROTTLE/GEAR COMMANDS
Forward gear: Raise your arm at a 45 degree angle above the horizon and wave your upper arm forward and back with your palm open, like you are gesturing "come this way". The helmsman should put the throttle in forward gear, idle speed.
Neutral: With your arm extended out horizontally to the side, swing your forearm fully forward then out to the side a few times, kind of like half of an umpire's "runner safe" signal in baseball. The helmsman puts the gear shifter in neutral and throttle at idle.
Reverse: Extend your arm at a 45 degree angle below horizontal and wave your hand backwards, like you are gesturing "back up". The helmsman puts the gear shifter in reverse at idle speed
Increase throttle: Point your arm skyward, with the index finger extended, and twirl your hand in circles, like "whoopee"! You can have preset amounts of throttle, so the first set of "whoopees" brings 1/3 throttle, a second set of "whoopees" increases to 2/3 throttle, and a third "whoopee" increases to full throttle.
Decrease throttle. Point your arm downward, with index finger extended, and twirl your hand in circles, like you are pointing at a bunch of crazy NASCAR ants running in small circles on the deck (or, to look at it another way, like a downward whoopee). If the throttle is at full, the first set of "crazy ants" decreases to 2/3; another set of "crazy ants" decreases to 1/3, and another set decreases to idle.
Remember that the throttle and gears stay in the position indicated until another signal changes it, so you don't need to keep "making whoopee" or whatever; your signaling hand is then free to indicate direction.
CONFIRMATIONS
If you chose to, you can have the helmsman orally confirm that they received and understood the commands, saying things like "forward", "neutral", "reverse", "right rudder", "left rudder", "hard starboard", "hard port". Usually the person at the helm is facing forward and the person at the bow can hear the confirmations, but in strong wind this isn't the case so we don't like to rely on them. You might consider using voice confirmations when first learning the system in calm weather, and as you gain confidence, stop using them. My wife is an attentive helmsman, and I am confident if I give a signal she sees it, but if you lack that confidence in your helmsman, oral confirmation can be helpful, but it does increase the level of sound that maneuvering takes.
One vocal communication I will add in regards to finding a spot to anchor, is that sometimes it is helpful for the "driver" at the bow to know what the depth is, but the depth meter is back at the helm. I extend my thumb pointing down as a signal that I want to know the depth, and the mate calls it out to me.
CONCLUSION
It can be difficult to communicate on a boat. Large distances between bow and helm, impediments to soundwaves like cockpit canvas, and wind blowing away your words all make verbal communication difficult. The bigger the boat, the more canvas you have, and the worse the weather, the more important a system like this is.
I think it is a nice show of seamanship to come into an anchorage, drop the anchor, pay it out while backing the boat in a straight line downwind, snub up the anchor, and back down to fully set the anchor and ensure the anchor isn't dragging, all without a single word being spoken. We have gotten plenty of comments to that effect from boats that have watched us anchor in perfect silence using this communication system, and we have found it immensely helpful and rewarding. And it sure beats shouting.
Smooth sailing,
Jim
My wife and I use a set of hand signals for maneuvering the boat when we need to operate with one person on the bow and the other at the helm. This is useful when picking up or dropping a mooring or when deploying or retrieving the anchor. While it is not all that uncommon for couples to use hand signals for steering like this, I think the system we use is unique. I have certainly never seen anyone else use one quite like it.
With many systems we have observed other people using, the person at the bow points in the direction they want the boat to go. The problem with this is that the person at the helm can't visually determine what angle the person at the bow is actually pointing in. We were guests aboard a boat where a married couple used this system, and at the end of trying to anchor the boat they were both stressed out and mad at each other. It was stressful for us just watching them anchor, so I can imagine how stressful it was for them pinning the anchoring safety of their pride and joy to this process.
OVERVIEW
The basic idea of our system is that the person at the bow is essentially "driving" the boat, while the person at the helm is essentially a visually-operated remote autopilot. It's like in movies of big ships, where the captain says, "slow ahead, 1/3 right rudder". The commands go to the engine room; the captain just talks. In this case, instead of talking the person at the foredeck is using hand signals.
The advantage of this system is that the person at the bow has a much better view of the object in the water, and can judge distances to nearby objects better than the person at the helm, and therefore can direct the boat better.
The set of hand signals we use is based roughly on bicycle hand signals for turning and stopping. While there are other hand signal systems that could also be adapted, I chose bicycles as the root because both I and my wife already knew and understood them, so there was less of a learning curve. If you don't know bicycle hand signals, try here: https://www.bikelaw.com/2021/03/bike-hand-signals/
The system is also designed to be done with one hand, so if you need the other hand to hold the boat hook or the washdown pump nozzle, or to hold on for dear life, that hand is available.
There are two types of commands: throttle/gear commands and direction commands. They work in fundamentally different ways: with throttle/gear commands, the throttle and/or shifter stay set in the same position until a different command is given; with direction commands, the helm is operated in the indicated direction only so long as the command is being given, and if no command is given the helm is centered.
(All of the following assume that the person at the bow is facing forwards, with their back to the helmsman.)
TURNING COMMANDS
The direction commands are basically bicycle turning commands. You can do them with either hand. Signaling with the left hand, to indicate left rudder, point left; to indicate right rudder, raise the left arm bent 90 degrees, with shoulder-to-elbow horizontal and the forearm upward. I also stick my thumb out pointing to the right so it enhances the idea I want a right turn. If you are signaling with the right hand, then extending the arm rightward means turn right, and the raised 90 degree arm (with thumb pointing left) means turn left.
When you quit signaling the turn, the helmsman returns the helm to center.
Agree in advance on a standard amount that the helm will be turned--so many spokes of the wheel, or to a specific position of the tiller. Start with whatever is half-way to the rudder locks and see how it works for your boat. You may need to adjust this amount of rudder based on how maneuverable your boat is. Practice a few times and figure it out before you use the system for real.
Sometimes you need to signal a hard turn--all the way to the rudder stops. For this you emphasize the turning gesture. So if you are pointing left to go left, move your left hand in and out a little while pointing to indicate hard left. If you are using the right-angle raised arm to indicate the turn to the other side than the one your arm is raised on, swing your thumb-pointing hand a bit towards your head then back to vertical. As long as you are making the emphasized motion the helm stays hard over in that direction. If you stop emphasizing, the helm returns to standard rudder, and if you stop the hand signal, the helm returns to center.
THROTTLE/GEAR COMMANDS
Forward gear: Raise your arm at a 45 degree angle above the horizon and wave your upper arm forward and back with your palm open, like you are gesturing "come this way". The helmsman should put the throttle in forward gear, idle speed.
Neutral: With your arm extended out horizontally to the side, swing your forearm fully forward then out to the side a few times, kind of like half of an umpire's "runner safe" signal in baseball. The helmsman puts the gear shifter in neutral and throttle at idle.
Reverse: Extend your arm at a 45 degree angle below horizontal and wave your hand backwards, like you are gesturing "back up". The helmsman puts the gear shifter in reverse at idle speed
Increase throttle: Point your arm skyward, with the index finger extended, and twirl your hand in circles, like "whoopee"! You can have preset amounts of throttle, so the first set of "whoopees" brings 1/3 throttle, a second set of "whoopees" increases to 2/3 throttle, and a third "whoopee" increases to full throttle.
Decrease throttle. Point your arm downward, with index finger extended, and twirl your hand in circles, like you are pointing at a bunch of crazy NASCAR ants running in small circles on the deck (or, to look at it another way, like a downward whoopee). If the throttle is at full, the first set of "crazy ants" decreases to 2/3; another set of "crazy ants" decreases to 1/3, and another set decreases to idle.
Remember that the throttle and gears stay in the position indicated until another signal changes it, so you don't need to keep "making whoopee" or whatever; your signaling hand is then free to indicate direction.
CONFIRMATIONS
If you chose to, you can have the helmsman orally confirm that they received and understood the commands, saying things like "forward", "neutral", "reverse", "right rudder", "left rudder", "hard starboard", "hard port". Usually the person at the helm is facing forward and the person at the bow can hear the confirmations, but in strong wind this isn't the case so we don't like to rely on them. You might consider using voice confirmations when first learning the system in calm weather, and as you gain confidence, stop using them. My wife is an attentive helmsman, and I am confident if I give a signal she sees it, but if you lack that confidence in your helmsman, oral confirmation can be helpful, but it does increase the level of sound that maneuvering takes.
One vocal communication I will add in regards to finding a spot to anchor, is that sometimes it is helpful for the "driver" at the bow to know what the depth is, but the depth meter is back at the helm. I extend my thumb pointing down as a signal that I want to know the depth, and the mate calls it out to me.
CONCLUSION
It can be difficult to communicate on a boat. Large distances between bow and helm, impediments to soundwaves like cockpit canvas, and wind blowing away your words all make verbal communication difficult. The bigger the boat, the more canvas you have, and the worse the weather, the more important a system like this is.
I think it is a nice show of seamanship to come into an anchorage, drop the anchor, pay it out while backing the boat in a straight line downwind, snub up the anchor, and back down to fully set the anchor and ensure the anchor isn't dragging, all without a single word being spoken. We have gotten plenty of comments to that effect from boats that have watched us anchor in perfect silence using this communication system, and we have found it immensely helpful and rewarding. And it sure beats shouting.
Smooth sailing,
Jim
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Re: Hand signals between bow and helm
Jimwikakaru wrote:(This is in response to a tangent about hand signals that occurred in the thread http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... 05#p218205).
My wife and I use a set of hand signals for maneuvering the boat when we need to operate with one person on the bow and the other at the helm. This is useful when picking up or dropping a mooring or when deploying or retrieving the anchor. While it is not all that uncommon for couples to use hand signals for steering like this, I think the system we use is unique. I have certainly never seen anyone else use one quite like it.
With many systems we have observed other people using, the person at the bow points in the direction they want the boat to go. The problem with this is that the person at the helm can't visually determine what angle the person at the bow is actually pointing in. We were guests aboard a boat where a married couple used this system, and at the end of trying to anchor the boat they were both stressed out and mad at each other. It was stressful for us just watching them anchor, so I can imagine how stressful it was for them pinning the anchoring safety of their pride and joy to this process.
OVERVIEW
The basic idea of our system is that the person at the bow is essentially "driving" the boat, while the person at the helm is essentially a visually-operated remote autopilot. It's like in movies of big ships, where the captain says, "slow ahead, 1/3 right rudder". The commands go to the engine room; the captain just talks. In this case, instead of talking the person at the foredeck is using hand signals.
The advantage of this system is that the person at the bow has a much better view of the object in the water, and can judge distances to nearby objects better than the person at the helm, and therefore can direct the boat better.
The set of hand signals we use is based roughly on bicycle hand signals for turning and stopping. While there are other hand signal systems that could also be adapted, I chose bicycles as the root because both I and my wife already knew and understood them, so there was less of a learning curve. If you don't know bicycle hand signals, try here: https://www.bikelaw.com/2021/03/bike-hand-signals/
The system is also designed to be done with one hand, so if you need the other hand to hold the boat hook or the washdown pump nozzle, or to hold on for dear life, that hand is available.
There are two types of commands: throttle/gear commands and direction commands. They work in fundamentally different ways: with throttle/gear commands, the throttle and/or shifter stay set in the same position until a different command is given; with direction commands, the helm is operated in the indicated direction only so long as the command is being given, and if no command is given the helm is centered.
(All of the following assume that the person at the bow is facing forwards, with their back to the helmsman.)
TURNING COMMANDS
The direction commands are basically bicycle turning commands. You can do them with either hand. Signaling with the left hand, to indicate left rudder, point left; to indicate right rudder, raise the left arm bent 90 degrees, with shoulder-to-elbow horizontal and the forearm upward. I also stick my thumb out pointing to the right so it enhances the idea I want a right turn. If you are signaling with the right hand, then extending the arm rightward means turn right, and the raised 90 degree arm (with thumb pointing left) means turn left.
When you quit signaling the turn, the helmsman returns the helm to center.
Agree in advance on a standard amount that the helm will be turned--so many spokes of the wheel, or to a specific position of the tiller. Start with whatever is half-way to the rudder locks and see how it works for your boat. You may need to adjust this amount of rudder based on how maneuverable your boat is. Practice a few times and figure it out before you use the system for real.
Sometimes you need to signal a hard turn--all the way to the rudder stops. For this you emphasize the turning gesture. So if you are pointing left to go left, move your left hand in and out a little while pointing to indicate hard left. If you are using the right-angle raised arm to indicate the turn to the other side than the one your arm is raised on, swing your thumb-pointing hand a bit towards your head then back to vertical. As long as you are making the emphasized motion the helm stays hard over in that direction. If you stop emphasizing, the helm returns to standard rudder, and if you stop the hand signal, the helm returns to center.
THROTTLE/GEAR COMMANDS
Forward gear: Raise your arm at a 45 degree angle above the horizon and wave your upper arm forward and back with your palm open, like you are gesturing "come this way". The helmsman should put the throttle in forward gear, idle speed.
Neutral: With your arm extended out horizontally to the side, swing your forearm fully forward then out to the side a few times, kind of like half of an umpire's "runner safe" signal in baseball. The helmsman puts the gear shifter in neutral and throttle at idle.
Reverse: Extend your arm at a 45 degree angle below horizontal and wave your hand backwards, like you are gesturing "back up". The helmsman puts the gear shifter in reverse at idle speed
Increase throttle: Point your arm skyward, with the index finger extended, and twirl your hand in circles, like "whoopee"! You can have preset amounts of throttle, so the first set of "whoopees" brings 1/3 throttle, a second set of "whoopees" increases to 2/3 throttle, and a third "whoopee" increases to full throttle.
Decrease throttle. Point your arm downward, with index finger extended, and twirl your hand in circles, like you are pointing at a bunch of crazy NASCAR ants running in small circles on the deck (or, to look at it another way, like a downward whoopee). If the throttle is at full, the first set of "crazy ants" decreases to 2/3; another set of "crazy ants" decreases to 1/3, and another set decreases to idle.
Remember that the throttle and gears stay in the position indicated until another signal changes it, so you don't need to keep "making whoopee" or whatever; your signaling hand is then free to indicate direction.
CONFIRMATIONS
If you chose to, you can have the helmsman orally confirm that they received and understood the commands, saying things like "forward", "neutral", "reverse", "right rudder", "left rudder", "hard starboard", "hard port". Usually the person at the helm is facing forward and the person at the bow can hear the confirmations, but in strong wind this isn't the case so we don't like to rely on them. You might consider using voice confirmations when first learning the system in calm weather, and as you gain confidence, stop using them. My wife is an attentive helmsman, and I am confident if I give a signal she sees it, but if you lack that confidence in your helmsman, oral confirmation can be helpful, but it does increase the level of sound that maneuvering takes.
One vocal communication I will add in regards to finding a spot to anchor, is that sometimes it is helpful for the "driver" at the bow to know what the depth is, but the depth meter is back at the helm. I extend my thumb pointing down as a signal that I want to know the depth, and the mate calls it out to me.
CONCLUSION
It can be difficult to communicate on a boat. Large distances between bow and helm, impediments to soundwaves like cockpit canvas, and wind blowing away your words all make verbal communication difficult. The bigger the boat, the more canvas you have, and the worse the weather, the more important a system like this is.
I think it is a nice show of seamanship to come into an anchorage, drop the anchor, pay it out while backing the boat in a straight line downwind, snub up the anchor, and back down to fully set the anchor and ensure the anchor isn't dragging, all without a single word being spoken. We have gotten plenty of comments to that effect from boats that have watched us anchor in perfect silence using this communication system, and we have found it immensely helpful and rewarding. And it sure beats shouting.
Smooth sailing,
Jim
These are well thought out and very practical. Thanks for sharing them. Perhaps they should be formalized at sailing schools. An article i. Cruising world or whatever it is people read these days.
We will give them a try and let you know how they work.
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Re: Hand signals between bow and helm
My wife and I use a very simple set of hand signals. Hand parallel to the water means neutral. Finger forward means put it in gear with no throttle. Thumb back means reverse, with just enough throttle to stop forward motion. Fingers pinching together means add a little throttle. We just use the point to the object method for steering, with one exception. Hard to port or hard to starboard is indicated by a bigger gesture.
By the time we get to hand signals, our boat speed is already down to just enough to maintain steerage. It's the last 50 to 100 feet where verbal communication becomes problematic. The last verbal command is when I let her know we are in neutral and letting momentum carry us. You're right, though. I've heard plenty of shouting and frustrated couples because they couldn't hear or understand each other.
By the time we get to hand signals, our boat speed is already down to just enough to maintain steerage. It's the last 50 to 100 feet where verbal communication becomes problematic. The last verbal command is when I let her know we are in neutral and letting momentum carry us. You're right, though. I've heard plenty of shouting and frustrated couples because they couldn't hear or understand each other.
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Re: Hand signals between bow and helm
Carl Thunberg wrote:My wife and I use a very simple set of hand signals. Hand parallel to the water means neutral. Finger forward means put it in gear with no throttle. Thumb back means reverse, with just enough throttle to stop forward motion. Fingers pinching together means add a little throttle. We just use the point to the object method for steering, with one exception. Hard to port or hard to starboard is indicated by a bigger gesture.
By the time we get to hand signals, our boat speed is already down to just enough to maintain steerage. It's the last 50 to 100 feet where verbal communication becomes problematic. The last verbal command is when I let her know we are in neutral and letting momentum carry us. You're right, though. I've heard plenty of shouting and frustrated couples because they couldn't hear or understand each other.
I have been sailing alone for so long I don't need much help to pick up a mooring or anchor etc. I have done all the normal mooring and anchoring maneuvers under sail with little difficulty. Now I have an engine. And with G on board we are working together. So I'm still figuring out how to change gears. I have to be able to do it two ways--by myself (no comms with anyone else required) and with her (definitely comms required). That's why I had a little trouble the other day. I took it for granted and I was not as careful and methodical as I am by myself. She was not sure how to communicate it.
So, I see Jim's hand and arm signals as very valuable. Capable of nuance and useable day and night. We are going to try it and give them a good workout. But in a couple weeks I'll be alone again and go back to the way I have always done it. If Jim's signals work as well as I think they will they will become our SOP.
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Re: Hand signals between bow and helm
If your system works well for you, have at it. Like John Candy says in the movie Splash, "If something works for me, I stick with it!"Carl Thunberg wrote:My wife and I use a very simple set of hand signals. Hand parallel to the water means neutral. Finger forward means put it in gear with no throttle. Thumb back means reverse, with just enough throttle to stop forward motion. Fingers pinching together means add a little throttle. We just use the point to the object method for steering, with one exception. Hard to port or hard to starboard is indicated by a bigger gesture.
By the time we get to hand signals, our boat speed is already down to just enough to maintain steerage. It's the last 50 to 100 feet where verbal communication becomes problematic. The last verbal command is when I let her know we are in neutral and letting momentum carry us. You're right, though. I've heard plenty of shouting and frustrated couples because they couldn't hear or understand each other.
We have found our system is helpful in plenty of other situations beyond anchoring or picking up a mooring. We have used it when navigating waters filled with coral heads, either with the observer at the bow or sitting up on the spreaders. Sometimes the weather is not benign and the need is much greater than just doing the last 50 feet in calm water. We have picked up more than one "man" (hat) overboard in bad weather when the waves are bouncing the boat all over and the wind blows the bow off course in an instant. It's when the chips are down and the conditions are bad that we are especially happy to have a well-practiced, versatile system.
Smooth sailing,
Jim
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Re: Hand signals between bow and helm
Hey John,John Stone wrote:I have been sailing alone for so long I don't need much help to pick up a mooring or anchor etc. I have done all the normal mooring and anchoring maneuvers under sail with little difficulty. Now I have an engine. And with G on board we are working together. So I'm still figuring out how to change gears. I have to be able to do it two ways--by myself (no comms with anyone else required) and with her (definitely comms required). That's why I had a little trouble the other day. I took it for granted and I was not as careful and methodical as I am by myself. She was not sure how to communicate it.
So, I see Jim's hand and arm signals as very valuable. Capable of nuance and useable day and night. We are going to try it and give them a good workout. But in a couple weeks I'll be alone again and go back to the way I have always done it. If Jim's signals work as well as I think they will they will become our SOP.
I usually think of using the engine as the easy part, and performing the maneuvers that most people do under engine with sail power alone is the hard part. It's interesting to think about learning things the other way around!
I find picking up a mooring alone under sail easy enough if the mooring has a pick-up buoy or pendant, but I keep wondering what I will do when I encounter the type of mooring that is just a mooring buoy with a small eye on the top to pass your own line through. Double-handing I would have one person go out in the dinghy to run the line through the eye first to make our own pendant, but that's not possible single-handing, (at least, not unless the wind is so calm that I can tow the boat myself from the dinghy). I guess with my small, low-freeboard boats it isn't such a big deal, because I'm sure I could reach that kind of buoy from on deck, but a full-sized cruising sailboat with high topsides is another story.
Smooth sailing,
Jim
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Re: Hand signals between bow and helm
I've seen specialty boat hooks that magically pass a line through a ring and bring it back to the operator. That could be a handy device if you faced that situation often enough. For me this is not about maneuvering tactics or pick up techniques. It's about communication techniques especially in reduced visibility or windier than normal conditions. That's why I like your hand and arm signals. They seem simple and clear yet nuanced. Skills like these are an important part of seamanship.wikakaru wrote:Hey John,John Stone wrote:I have been sailing alone for so long I don't need much help to pick up a mooring or anchor etc. I have done all the normal mooring and anchoring maneuvers under sail with little difficulty. Now I have an engine. And with G on board we are working together. So I'm still figuring out how to change gears. I have to be able to do it two ways--by myself (no comms with anyone else required) and with her (definitely comms required). That's why I had a little trouble the other day. I took it for granted and I was not as careful and methodical as I am by myself. She was not sure how to communicate it.
So, I see Jim's hand and arm signals as very valuable. Capable of nuance and useable day and night. We are going to try it and give them a good workout. But in a couple weeks I'll be alone again and go back to the way I have always done it. If Jim's signals work as well as I think they will they will become our SOP.
I usually think of using the engine as the easy part, and performing the maneuvers that most people do under engine with sail power alone is the hard part. It's interesting to think about learning things the other way around!
I find picking up a mooring alone under sail easy enough if the mooring has a pick-up buoy or pendant, but I keep wondering what I will do when I encounter the type of mooring that is just a mooring buoy with a small eye on the top to pass your own line through. Double-handing I would have one person go out in the dinghy to run the line through the eye first to make our own pendant, but that's not possible single-handing, (at least, not unless the wind is so calm that I can tow the boat myself from the dinghy). I guess with my small, low-freeboard boats it isn't such a big deal, because I'm sure I could reach that kind of buoy from on deck, but a full-sized cruising sailboat with high topsides is another story.
Smooth sailing,
Jim
Re: Hand signals between bow and helm
Alternate idea:
Single handing - I come alongside the ball or whip. I have a big Wichard clip on a 30' dock line line that runs up to the bow cleat, outside everything. Just boathook the pendant out of the water from beside the cockpit and "clip" this temporary bow line onto the pendant and drop back into the water. Done.
After clipping on, let the boat begin to settle .. then go to the bow pull up to the ball slowly, pull pendant up and cleat. It's a very tight anchorage that can't allow for this temporary 20 ft extension. Even then you can be up to the bow and snugging up in a much more relaxed way.
It's so much easier to modulate the position of the boat/ball when it's right there under your chin where you can see it ... no leaning out over the bow of the boat etc. And you just go around again if you miss.
No reason not do this with two or more onboard either. You gotta be aware of (contra) current that might overpower light wind and put the ball under the boat, and be circumspect putting the prop in gear. Pendants can be floating out at weird angles from a ball. But folks overshoot bow approaches all the time and get in tangles too. (esp fin keels, spade rudders).
Anyway, just a suggestion, it works great for me, especially at night when you really can't see the ball and you are by yourself - one more arrow in the quiver.
get the 6" clip
edit: if there are no pendants just a ring you can clip to the ring and the clip plus line becomes your pendant for the night.
https://www.westmarine.com/wichard--sta ... 60_002_004
Single handing - I come alongside the ball or whip. I have a big Wichard clip on a 30' dock line line that runs up to the bow cleat, outside everything. Just boathook the pendant out of the water from beside the cockpit and "clip" this temporary bow line onto the pendant and drop back into the water. Done.
After clipping on, let the boat begin to settle .. then go to the bow pull up to the ball slowly, pull pendant up and cleat. It's a very tight anchorage that can't allow for this temporary 20 ft extension. Even then you can be up to the bow and snugging up in a much more relaxed way.
It's so much easier to modulate the position of the boat/ball when it's right there under your chin where you can see it ... no leaning out over the bow of the boat etc. And you just go around again if you miss.
No reason not do this with two or more onboard either. You gotta be aware of (contra) current that might overpower light wind and put the ball under the boat, and be circumspect putting the prop in gear. Pendants can be floating out at weird angles from a ball. But folks overshoot bow approaches all the time and get in tangles too. (esp fin keels, spade rudders).
Anyway, just a suggestion, it works great for me, especially at night when you really can't see the ball and you are by yourself - one more arrow in the quiver.
get the 6" clip
edit: if there are no pendants just a ring you can clip to the ring and the clip plus line becomes your pendant for the night.
https://www.westmarine.com/wichard--sta ... 60_002_004
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Last edited by fmueller on Apr 20th, '22, 11:39, edited 2 times in total.
Fred Mueller
Jerezana
CD 27 Narragansett Bay
Jerezana
CD 27 Narragansett Bay
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Re: Hand signals between bow and helm
I ran across this slick gizmo not too long ago. While I freely admit I seem to gravitate towards doing things the simple but hard way this is a pretty clever device. Fascinating to watch it work even in slow-mo. Truly, "necessity is the mother of invention."
Seems like just the thing for passing a line through a buoy ring.
https://youtu.be/rMsyxnryt-s
Seems like just the thing for passing a line through a buoy ring.
https://youtu.be/rMsyxnryt-s
Re: Hand signals between bow and helm
The boat I bought last year had one of the hooks John linked to. As I haven't used it other to practice with at the dock I can't tell you how easy/hard it is to use in real conditions.
Something I had read and haven't tried is to tie a line to one cleat and holding the other end in your hand, drop the coil in the water around the ball. Tie it to a cleat after pulling it to a short length. This will catch the mooring line under the ball and give you time to thread the regular line through the eye. This seems like a quick easy way to get a temporary hold of the mooring ball.
Something I had read and haven't tried is to tie a line to one cleat and holding the other end in your hand, drop the coil in the water around the ball. Tie it to a cleat after pulling it to a short length. This will catch the mooring line under the ball and give you time to thread the regular line through the eye. This seems like a quick easy way to get a temporary hold of the mooring ball.
Chris Anderheggen
CD25 "Windsong"
Catalina 30 "Kestrel"
Catalina 387 " Parrot Cay"
Credo quia absurdum
CD25 "Windsong"
Catalina 30 "Kestrel"
Catalina 387 " Parrot Cay"
Credo quia absurdum
- wikakaru
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- Location: 1980 Typhoon #1697 "Dory"; 1981 CD22 #41 "Arietta"
Re: Hand signals between bow and helm
That's a bit like how I anchor by myself under sail alone, but in reverse. I pre-flake the anchor rode on the foredeck to an appropriate scope for the water depth, then run the anchor and the short chain outside the lifelines back to the cockpit. When I get to the spot where I want to anchor, I just toss the anchor overboard while still at the helm. The anchor rode pays out at the bow; when it snubs up the momentum of the boat sets the anchor.fmueller wrote:Alternate idea:
Single handing - I come alongside the ball or whip. I have a big Wichard clip on 1/2" three stand nylon line that runs up to the bow cleat, outside everything. Just boathook the pendant out of the water from beside the cockpit and "clip" this temporary bow line onto the pendant and drop back into the water. Done.
After clipping on, let the boat begin to settle .. then go to the bow pull up to the ball slowly, pull pendant up and cleat. It's a very tight anchorage that can't allow for this temporary 20 ft extension. Even then you can be up to the bow and snugging up in a much more relaxed way.
It's so much easier to modulate the position of the boat/ball when it's right there under your chin where you can see it ... no leaning out over the bow of the boat etc. And you just go around again if you miss.
No reason not do this with two or more onboard either. You gotta be aware of (contra) current that might overpower light wind and put the ball under the boat, and be circumspect putting the prop in gear. Pendants can be floating out at weird angles from a ball. But folks overshoot bow approaches all the time and get in tangles too. (esp fin keels, spade rudders).
Anyway, just a suggestion - one more arrow in the quiver.
get the 6" clip
edit: if there are no pendants just a ring you can clip to the ring and the clip plus line becomes your pendant for the night.
https://www.westmarine.com/wichard--sta ... 60_002_004
When picking up my mooring under sail I have a buoy-on-a-stick (is there a proper name for those things?), so I always just walk forward and pick it up, but if I had to pick up a strange mooring under sail by myself that didn't have a buoy-on-a-stick, that sounds like a good way to do it.
Smooth sailing,
Jim
- wikakaru
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- Location: 1980 Typhoon #1697 "Dory"; 1981 CD22 #41 "Arietta"
Re: Hand signals between bow and helm
Cool device. If I had to pick up that kind of buoy frequently, I'd buy one.John Stone wrote:I ran across this slick gizmo not too long ago. While I freely admit I seem to gravitate towards doing things the simple but hard way this is a pretty clever device. Fascinating to watch it work even in slow-mo. Truly, "necessity is the mother of invention."
Seems like just the thing for passing a line through a buoy ring.
https://youtu.be/rMsyxnryt-s
--Jim
- wikakaru
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- Joined: Jan 13th, '18, 16:19
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Re: Hand signals between bow and helm
Yee-haw! Lasso 'em, cowboy!Chrisa006 wrote:The boat I bought last year had one of the hooks John linked to. As I haven't used it other to practice with at the dock I can't tell you how easy/hard it is to use in real conditions.
Something I had read and haven't tried is to tie a line to one cleat and holding the other end in your hand, drop the coil in the water around the ball. Tie it to a cleat after pulling it to a short length. This will catch the mooring line under the ball and give you time to thread the regular line through the eye. This seems like a quick easy way to get a temporary hold of the mooring ball.
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- Joined: Oct 6th, '08, 07:30
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Re: Hand signals between bow and helm
wikakaru wrote:Yee-haw! Lasso 'em, cowboy!Chrisa006 wrote:The boat I bought last year had one of the hooks John linked to. As I haven't used it other to practice with at the dock I can't tell you how easy/hard it is to use in real conditions.
Something I had read and haven't tried is to tie a line to one cleat and holding the other end in your hand, drop the coil in the water around the ball. Tie it to a cleat after pulling it to a short length. This will catch the mooring line under the ball and give you time to thread the regular line through the eye. This seems like a quick easy way to get a temporary hold of the mooring ball.
I have started using something similar when the wind goes light and the mooring ball starts banging into the hull. I take a length of 1/8" double braid cord and loop around the mooring ball. I run the cord through a shackle on the kranze iron and back to a cleat on deck. I snug it up so the ball is under the bow sprit and can't hit the hull. The boat drifts around like that. It's surprising how much strain that line can take. When the wind picks up it loads up the cord till it finally breaks. Then the boat falls back on the pendant.