New Boat Inspection

[fritz3000g]

My original, good running, non smoking engine was in need of replacement the first time I ran it longer than an hour. I bought it low expecting that I would replace it in 4 or 5 years. Not expecting repower to have been so much. I went back electric.

What failed?

[ghockaday]

My original, good running, non smoking engine was in need of replacement the first time I ran it longer than an hour. I bought it low expecting that I would replace it in 4 or 5 years. Not expecting repower to have been so much. I went back electric.

What failed?

As soon as I started to use it a hole came through the cylinder wall. The exhaust water was warm, not hot. The MD7A is not a sleeved engine, so it would have to have been bored sleeved, custom pistons and on and on. And it would have still been a 40 year old engine with a bunch of corrosion in it.

[fritz3000g]

Ok, so I inspected a CD this weekend using the Don Casey-derived checklist and am leaning towards purchasing. The price is reasonable, and it has a couple features that are important to me and hard to find. The inspection was on the hard in cold weather.

I will not be able to get a survey, mechanical inspection, or sea trial before deciding because the owner already has others waiting to inspect and likely purchase (I'm first in line, and have a few days to respond). So I'm seeking your wisdom as I may soon join your ranks!

First the positive:

• Deck and hull are in great shape - no delamination, blisters, or odd sounds when tapped.
• Chainplate backing plates are in great shape - no sign of any corrosion or leaking
• Mast and base, boom, and standing rigging look fantastic to the extent it's possible to tell.
• Diesel engine looks mostly clean with good hoses, no burned paint (I don't think), and few areas of corrosion.
• Teak is in great shape.
• Head it almost new.
• Sails appear aged but well maintained and in decent shape with no obvious wear.
• Batteries look new, and had 12.7 volts after 2 months disconnected in the cold.

Now the concerns. Are any of these (or all of them together) red flags?

• Minor water damage under deck fittings and in a few places below toe rail . Unclear whether recent or old, though the new owner thinks it's old and has paid for some toerail replacement.
• Both cockpit drain seacocks are stuck (second half of video), one open one closed. There is one gate valve instead of a seacock. The seacock below the stove appears to be stuck (assuming I understand how it works - see video). The waste discharge fitting is also stuck. Some or all of these could be due partly to the cold.
• Rudder slides up and down 1/2"
• Prop shaft can wiggle 1/16", and no zinc external
• Two of the winches don't sound great, but do turn.
• Unusual (based on my limited experience) depth finder installation. See video.
• Engine is original, and there's a very small amount of oil (just enough to show on my fingers) on the bottom of engine, and a small amount of corrosion on top.
• Impeller access screws are basically stripped, though the current owner says the marina replaced the impeller almost every year.
• Some wiring issues, including no power at depth finder or speedometer and inability to use power without both batteries connected (regardless of selector settings). All forward lights worked fine, so repairs would all be around engine area. I'm an electrical engineer, so not intimidated by wiring issues.
• In general, the owner (and probably previous owners) were uninterested in performing maintenance themselves, as evidenced by unmoving seacocks, single clamps on seacocks, and winches that make odd sounds (one wasn't used at all by the current owner). The current owner had a reputable marina do annual rigging and engine maintenance.

The owner was really generous to let me spend 5 hours inspecting the boat, going through my checklist. However, for various reasons I couldn't inspect everything, including:

• Back of electrical panel
• Autopilot (ST2000), depth finder, and speedometer operation
• Head operation
• Furler operation
• Motor operation
• Sailing characteristics
• Bilge pump operation
• Engine zincs and transmission fluid

In general it was a really interesting lesson inspecting a boat like this. I moved fast, but still couldn't check everything even in 5 hours. This was in part because most of the important things were hard to reach and while I kind-of know what I'm looking for I don't have experience doing inspections like this.

I spoke at length with a local mechanic who seems very knowledgeable to me, though also seems interested in having me as a customer (bias). I'll send him some photos and get an opinion based on those, but in general he said the odds that the engine would last more than 10 years is greater than 50%. The current owner claims that he's never had any issues with the motor at all except for a sticky stop cable that he replaced.

There was a survey done 10 years ago, but the paperwork was really pathetic. They basically just listed the boat's systems and for maybe 20% of them said whether they were in poor, fair, good, or excellent condition. That made me really glad I did my own survey, though I really wish I could take a mechanic with me out on the water.

[Frenchy]

I would say your informal survey looks pretty good except for starting and running the engine. If I were selling a
boat, I would run the engine to prove it was operable. Maybe the owner didn't want to re-winterize it.
But otherwise, most of the other things can be taken care of by you. Disassembling and lubricating the winches and
seacocks is not a big deal. The gate valve though, should be replaced.
I don't understand about the water damage below cleats and under the toe rail. You'll have to post a pic. As for the
shaft movement, you might get away with a season or two just the way it is, but you should budget in a new cutlass
bearing eventually. The wiring issues, which all CD's seem to have, will be easy for you.
I think the post-1979 CD 28s with the Spartan ports are slightly more desirable. Anyway, good luck- Jean

[fritz3000g]

I don't understand about the water damage below cleats and under the toe rail. You'll have to post a pic.

Here are some pics:






There are a few other spots but these are the worst.

[ghockaday]

Not hearing the engine run is very high risk. Better to find a diesel mechanic to check it out completely. Checking compression, blow by, water flow, etc. Other stuff is just time and money if you do it yourself.

[fritz3000g]

Not hearing the engine run is very high risk. Better to find a diesel mechanic to check it out completely. Checking compression, blow by, water flow, etc.

I did call the marina that winterizes it. They verified that each of the past 8 years the boat has come in under diesel power and left in reverse under diesel power, and they haven't been asked to do any additional mechanical work on it.

[Frenchy]

The pictures are not coming up on my computer.

[fritz3000g]

The pictures are not coming up on my computer.

Sorry Frenchy. Looks like sharing from google drive doesn't really work. I'm hoping this will.






For reference, I took the dropbox link and changed the suffix as follows:

Old: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ljewwakunzase ... ng?[b]dl=0[/b]
New: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ljewwakunzase ... g?[b]raw=1[/b]

[Frenchy]

Well, none of that looks too serious in my amateur opinion. If one of those shots is taken aiming up at the toerail
bolts alongside the ceiling lining the inside of the hull, then it looks like the toerail bolts are leaking. I had the same
problem. You need to dig out the bungs on port and starboard toerails and remove every other bolt, recaulk and reinstall.
Then go back and do the other ones.
The backing plate under the cleat appears to be teak, so it probably isn't rotten. Here again, you need to remove
the bolts and recaulk. When you remount the cleat, it's a good idea to chamfer the fiberglass deck at the bolt holes.
The chamfer will hold some of the caulking, creating a gasket to help prevent leaks. Butyl tape works great. Sikaflex
is also good, though messier.
The ceiling slats are usually not teak, but yours don't seem to be rotten, from the picture. You may be able to just
remove the suspect slats, clean, sand and re-oil or varnish.
Good luck on your purchase decision. - Jean

[fritz3000g]

When you remount the cleat, it's a good idea to chamfer the fiberglass deck at the bolt holes.
The chamfer will hold some of the caulking, creating a gasket to help prevent leaks.

Thanks Jean!

I'd heard that I should drill a larger hole, epoxy inside with a little silicate, then drill (and maybe chamfer) through the new epoxy when making a deck fitting. That ensures that there's no chance of leaks touching the balsa.

Does the balsa core extend all the way out to the toe rail?

[mgphl52]

Does the balsa core extend all the way out to the toe rail?

To the best of my knowledge, it does not. You should be able to tell by pinging the deck area.

[csoule13]

When you remount the cleat, it's a good idea to chamfer the fiberglass deck at the bolt holes.
The chamfer will hold some of the caulking, creating a gasket to help prevent leaks.

Thanks Jean!

I'd heard that I should drill a larger hole, epoxy inside with a little silicate, then drill (and maybe chamfer) through the new epoxy when making a deck fitting. That ensures that there's no chance of leaks touching the balsa.

Does the balsa core extend all the way out to the toe rail?

Not sure if I missed what model we're looking at here, but from a CD27 owner - it is solid fiberglass from the edge of the deck to, I dunno, probably 3 inches in. On my boat, a rough estimate would be where the non-skid starts, give or take. Proof - installed brackets for a swim ladder, snapped two drill bits in the stuff before getting wise and getting better bits.

I know this thread is long, long past this but after having my boat for 4 seasons, there is much to be said depending on use, there is a whole host of stuff people lose sleep over that they shouldn't. Daysailing or short term local cruising really doesn't require a boat to be in the condition that someone sailing longer or in more remote places needs. Plenty of boats in worse condition that mine out there doing bigger things. Plenty of sailors in worse condition, too.

[ghockaday]

Not hearing the engine run is very high risk. Better to find a diesel mechanic to check it out completely. Checking compression, blow by, water flow, etc.

I did call the marina that winterizes it. They verified that each of the past 8 years the boat has come in under diesel power and left in reverse under diesel power, and they haven't been asked to do any additional mechanical work on it.

Ok, I guess that's one way to survey it.

[fritz3000g]

Got a call from the owner requesting a decision today, and I went forwards with it.

Happy to be a new owner of a CD 25D to be stored (at least this year) on a trailer in Sturgeon Bay, WI.

Pictures: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Anyone have an idea why the boat would have Radar but no other electronics?

Thanks for the great advice!