Converting CD30C from Diesel to Electric propulsion

[Keith]

I came across this simple graphic on lead vs LiFePO4 batteries. It's just what I had mentioned earlier in the thread but very simple to see.

Keith

Screen Shot 2021-04-10 at 5.08.11 PM.png

What does that mean “20 percent time consuming to recharge and difficult to access”? What’s the source of that graphic?

I assume that they mean that the top 20% takes a lot longer to charge then the mid range %. As an example my phone charges at about 1% per minute in the lower and mid range % but when it get up to 90% it starts taking several minutes per % and 98-100% seem to take 10 minutes or so per %. So if you can leave it on a charger for extended period it probably doesn't matter. This might have come from an RV site where they are consuming and generating power all the time so it may be difficult to every get to the upper %. I had a friend with a Tesla and he never got the batteries fully charged when he was traveling because he never wanted to wait for the full charge. He would get 80% at the quick charge stations in 45 min but would have to wait another hour or so to get the last 20% to get it up to 100%. The he got home and could leave it over night then he could get to 100%.

[Keith]

I am thinking of going with the Electric Yacht Sport 10.0 also. They offer three different throttle controls, which one did you guys go with, and are yo happy with it?

My has the round disk that has a button that you push in then turn the disk. I have only used it a few times to test while on the hard. I custom mounted it on my pedestal but haven't mounted the monitor yet. I'll take a picture today. I also have a Viltron battery monitor and a Viltron solar monitor.

Keith

[Keith]

I am thinking of going with the Electric Yacht Sport 10.0 also. They offer three different throttle controls, which one did you guys go with, and are yo happy with it?

One more TID Bit that I'm not sure Keith will agree with from his research. If you you are going to use your batteries like Keith is going to use his and depend on a solar charger all of the time I think the LiFePo4 batteries are your only choice.

If you have a big AGM bank like I have.......say you come in and had to make a long electric run and the battery bank is at 60 percent. Now to top it off it stays cloudy for 3 or 4 days. It may take a week to get to 100 percent. Those AGMs are not going to like that at all. and it will shorten the life of them getting charged in bits and starts. The LeFePo4 will not care. I carry a 2k Honda if we cruise so we can charge the batteries up properly or better yet I can charge as I run at 3 knots. If we can't sail we will usually sit as I don't like to motor. (sailor vs cruiser definition)
Dee

Dee,

I do agree with you that LiFePO4 is the only way to go if you are solar charging. I went with the AGM as well because I already had them (well three of them anyway) and wanted to get the system running and maybe even launch with them if the LiFePO4 cells don't arrive soon. It only cost me another $200 for the extra batteries. If I kill them prematurely then it doesn't matter because they were going to be obsoleted by the LiFePO4 battery any way.

Being on a mooring makes the conversion require solar or wind and I didn't want the noise or ascetics of a turbine. I seldom used my diesel except to charge my batteries so we will see how it works out. Several years ago I blew the head gasket and ended up sailing 6 or 7 weeks with no motor. I view it as an experiment. I may need to add more solar and already have a plan for the second solar bank if required.

Keith

[Keith]

I am thinking of going with the Electric Yacht Sport 10.0 also. They offer three different throttle controls, which one did you guys go with, and are yo happy with it?

My has the round disk that has a button that you push in then turn the disk. I have only used it a few times to test while on the hard. I custom mounted it on my pedestal but haven't mounted the monitor yet. I'll take a picture today. I also have a Viltron battery monitor and a Viltron solar monitor.

Keith

Here are a few pics of the Electric Yacht controls that I got. I looked at their binnacle mount unit that they sell for $299 I think but it didn't really work for me the way that I have my helm setup. I constructed a box to mount the control panel on and mounted it to the 1" SS post with two SS u-bolts. I haven't used the controls yet with the wheel on. I'll give that a try in the next few days. I also haven't mounted the display box. I plan to mount it above the compass. I get most of the information that is on the electric Yacht display on my victron battery monitor but the Electric Yacht display does show RPMs, not sure what else. To your earlier question about reduction: they will match it to your prop and hull design. They also told me that they would change the ratio if I was not happy with it. I kept my 2 blade prop and they gave me a 2/1 reduction like I had with the MD7A. We will see how it works out after launch. I'm looking at the first week in May.

Pedistal with Electric Yacht Controls.jpg (89.35 KiB) Viewed 854 times

Electric Yacht Controls.jpg (95.25 KiB) Viewed 854 times

Keith

[tjr818]

Thanks Keith. I like that throttle mount. I might copy it.

[Keith]

MOONDANCE splashed on Wednesday and the electric motor is quite impressive. Just a touch of the throttle and she takes off. The instantaneous torque of an electric motor is amazing. I still have not received my LiFePO4 battery cells from China. They claim that they are in port in Long Beach awaiting clearance at customs and then pickup by FEDEX. They did give me FEDEX tracking numbers for the packages so hopefully they are soon to be delivered to me. So I am operating with the four 79 Ah group 24 AGM's. As a safety net I took my inflatable and 4 hp outboard along with me on the maiden electrical voyage. I'm happy to say that the inflatable and outboard was not needed.

The next test was to see how the solar panels charge the batteries. In the boat yard they worked great but I never took the batteries down more then a few percent. Since launch I have taken the batteries down to 78% on the first day and 82% on the second day. That equals 17Ah and 14Ah respectively. Each time by noon the next day the batteries were fully charged. Earlier in the thread I mentioned that I purchased 4 70W panels to put in series to get above the 48 volts needed. Unfortunately the panels are so efficient that with the 4 in series they exceed the 100V max of the controller and it faults out so I am actually using only 3 panels. This actually surprised the solar panel manufacturer as he thought that the 4 panel would never exceed 100 volts. It's nice when a product exceeds expectations. This is all good news. The solar controller is also performing very well. As an example yesterday the solar panels were putting out 83V at 2.8A and the solar controller converted that to 56V at 3.5A to charge the batteries.

It has been quite windy since launch so I haven't been able to do a good test on the amperage consumption at different speeds. What I have done so far seems to exceed expectations but it is more anecdotal at this point. I'll take more data and plot the actual results vs expected results.

I'll take some pics today of the solar panels on the dodger and the motor bay with electronics. I forgot to mention that I also decided to update my old original 12V electrical panel. I'll take some pics of that as well.

Keith

[John Stone]

MOONDANCE splashed on Wednesday and the electric motor is quite impressive. Just a touch of the throttle and she takes off. The instantaneous torque of an electric motor is amazing. I still have not received my LiFePO4 battery cells from China. They claim that they are in port in Long Beach awaiting clearance at customs and then pickup by FEDEX. They did give me FEDEX tracking numbers for the packages so hopefully they are soon to be delivered to me. So I am operating with the four 79 Ah group 24 AGM's. As a safety net I took my inflatable and 4 hp outboard along with me on the maiden electrical voyage. I'm happy to say that the inflatable and outboard was not needed.

The next test was to see how the solar panels charge the batteries. In the boat yard they worked great but I never took the batteries down more then a few percent. Since launch I have taken the batteries down to 78% on the first day and 82% on the second day. That equals 17Ah and 14Ah respectively. Each time by noon the next day the batteries were fully charged. Earlier in the thread I mentioned that I purchased 4 70W panels to put in series to get above the 48 volts needed. Unfortunately the panels are so efficient that with the 4 in series they exceed the 100V max of the controller and it faults out so I am actually using only 3 panels. This actually surprised the solar panel manufacturer as he thought that the 4 panel would never exceed 100 volts. It's nice when a product exceeds expectations. This is all good news. The solar controller is also performing very well. As an example yesterday the solar panels were putting out 83V at 2.8A and the solar controller converted that to 56V at 3.5A to charge the batteries.

It has been quite windy since launch so I haven't been able to do a good test on the amperage consumption at different speeds. What I have done so far seems to exceed expectations but it is more anecdotal at this point. I'll take more data and plot the actual results vs expected results.

I'll take some pics today of the solar panels on the dodger and the motor bay with electronics. I forgot to mention that I also decided to update my old original 12V electrical panel. I'll take some pics of that as well.

Keith

Sounds very interesting. You have to be pretty happy with the results of all your hard work. Will be interesting to see your work building your own batteries.

[Keith]

MOONDANCE splashed on Wednesday and the electric motor is quite impressive. Just a touch of the throttle and she takes off. The instantaneous torque of an electric motor is amazing. I still have not received my LiFePO4 battery cells from China. They claim that they are in port in Long Beach awaiting clearance at customs and then pickup by FEDEX. They did give me FEDEX tracking numbers for the packages so hopefully they are soon to be delivered to me. So I am operating with the four 79 Ah group 24 AGM's. As a safety net I took my inflatable and 4 hp outboard along with me on the maiden electrical voyage. I'm happy to say that the inflatable and outboard was not needed.

The next test was to see how the solar panels charge the batteries. In the boat yard they worked great but I never took the batteries down more then a few percent. Since launch I have taken the batteries down to 78% on the first day and 82% on the second day. That equals 17Ah and 14Ah respectively. Each time by noon the next day the batteries were fully charged. Earlier in the thread I mentioned that I purchased 4 70W panels to put in series to get above the 48 volts needed. Unfortunately the panels are so efficient that with the 4 in series they exceed the 100V max of the controller and it faults out so I am actually using only 3 panels. This actually surprised the solar panel manufacturer as he thought that the 4 panel would never exceed 100 volts. It's nice when a product exceeds expectations. This is all good news. The solar controller is also performing very well. As an example yesterday the solar panels were putting out 83V at 2.8A and the solar controller converted that to 56V at 3.5A to charge the batteries.

It has been quite windy since launch so I haven't been able to do a good test on the amperage consumption at different speeds. What I have done so far seems to exceed expectations but it is more anecdotal at this point. I'll take more data and plot the actual results vs expected results.

I'll take some pics today of the solar panels on the dodger and the motor bay with electronics. I forgot to mention that I also decided to update my old original 12V electrical panel. I'll take some pics of that as well.

Keith

Sounds very interesting. You have to be pretty happy with the results of all your hard work. Will be interesting to see your work building your own batteries.

Yes John I'm very pleased and got some good news today on the battery cells from China. It looks like they cleared customs and are in FEDEX hands now.

Here are a few pics of the motor bay, Electronics and water systems. The motor bay is pretty much done except where the LiFePO4 battery pack will go.

Motor bay.jpg (109.38 KiB) Viewed 835 times

The electronics area has the solar controller, negative bus bar, Victron battery monitor shunt and the class T 250A fuse and there is plenty of room for another solar controller if needed.

Electronics.jpg (96.73 KiB) Viewed 835 times

The bilge pump & strainer, potable water controls & strainer as well as the sink drain seacock have all been moved from the starboard bulkhead area to under the sink on the port side

Water Systems.jpg (100.7 KiB) Viewed 835 times

Keith

[Keith]

Here are some pics of the solar panels on the dodger. If you remember from my winter projects post the dodger is new as well. There are 3 70W panels. After one week of use the panels have brought the batteries to full charge every day. The lowest that I have taken the batteries is to 72%. I'll keep pushing them lower to get to the solar panels one day recharge capacity. In the pic you can see the Electric Yacht display mounted to my cup holder with tie wraps. I haven't decided how I want to mount it yet buy this works as a temporary fix. The three most important information that it provides are Amps being consumed, battery % discharged and how much battery time is left. I also get the Amps consumed, battery % discharged and battery time left from my Victron smart battery monitor that displays on my cell.

My LiFePO4 battery cells have been making there way across the country this week and are currently just one state away. I hope to have them in hand by Monday at the latest and will post the process of top end charging them and the battery box build and install.

Solar panels on dodger.jpg (106.46 KiB) Viewed 825 times

Solar panels 1.jpg (140.6 KiB) Viewed 825 times

[tjr818]

How does the conversion affect your insurance coverage?
Did you have to have a Licensed Marine Electrician inspect the install?

[Keith]

How does the conversion affect your insurance coverage? I don't know.
Did you have to have a Licensed Marine Electrician inspect the install?

No

Something to think about.

Keith

[Keith]

Here's a repost of the posts that were lost the other day during site maintenance.

The cells arrived mid May in excellent condition no damage at all. They are 3.2 V cells and all were at 3.32-3.33 V but with the flat State of Charge (SOC) curve of LiFePo4 batteries they could be anywhere between 20% and 80% charged. So I grouped them into groups of 4 to give me 4 12V batteries. I then proceeded to charge them all up to 3.5 V (14V) with traditional battery chargers. This took many days as they are 202 Ah's and at 6A per hour it took many hours and I only charged them when I was relatively close by. I.E. not 24 hours per day. The curve is the classic hockey stick, flat for ever then they spike fast so you need to be close by when they hit the knee of the curve.

Cells grouped in 4's.JPG (825.62 KiB) Viewed 782 times

Once they were all at 3.5V they were then wired in series and top end balanced to 3.65V with a cheep power supply from Amazon (~$50). This process is not mandatory but highly recommended. If not top end balanced then it could take the Battery Management System (BMS) weeks or months to balance the 16 cells which could possibly shorten there lives.

top end balancing.JPG (726.52 KiB) Viewed 782 times

While the cells were charging I was constructing the battery box and platform. As mentioned earlier in this thread one of the main concerns with constructing your own LiFePO4 battery from cells is that the cell must be held together tightly to reduce any movement and damage to the connections. I designed side panels with jack screws in the X and Y direction to keep them tightly packed together.You can see the jack screws with the nuts epoxied into the side panels and the pressure plates with fender washers epoxied into them. The fender washers are simply a bearing surface for the jack screws.

jack screws epoxied in.JPG (682.66 KiB) Viewed 782 times

[Keith]

Here's the battery box epoxied, screwed and edges glassed.

Box epoxied and screwed together.JPG (644.2 KiB) Viewed 782 times

box edges glassed.JPG (769.32 KiB) Viewed 782 times

All surfaces of the wood were epoxied and the pusher plates and cells installed for a final test fit. The cells were then connected in series.

cells in box and connected in series.JPG (785.04 KiB) Viewed 782 times

[Keith]

Next the cells were moved and everything was ferried out to MOONDANCE for final assembly and sea trials. In the first pic the battery is installed and the Battery Management System (BMS) is wired. There is one ground wire on the 16th cells negative terminal and a positive wire on each of the 16 cells positive terminals. This allows the BMS to monitor and adjust the voltage of all 16 cells continuously.

BMS wiring complete.jpg (2.23 MiB) Viewed 782 times

LiFePO4 battery bank connected.JPG (693.98 KiB) Viewed 782 times

Access to stuffing box has been greatly improved over the MD7A and Vdrive.

Stuffing box access2.jpg (1.5 MiB) Viewed 782 times

[John Stone]

Very nice. That’s a lot of dedication. You’re breaking some new ground. It’s the future…no doubt about it.