New bow sprit

[ghockaday]

Southern Yellow, I don't think Douglas Fir grew in this part in Virginia, I may be wrong. I thought that was more of a west coast thing. This is the lumber they specialize in and are even listed as a reliable source at wood crafters.

Heart pine is the heartwood of the longleaf pine tree (Pinus palustris), which is no longer harvested for commercial use and is now primarily available only as reclaimed lumber. The lumberyard stuff is slash pine (Pinus elliottii), loblolly pine (Pinus taeda) or less often, shortleaf pine (Pinus echinata).

[John Stone]

Southern Yellow, I don't think Douglas Fir grew in this part in Virginia, I may be wrong. I thought that was more of a west coast thing. This is the lumber they specialize in and are even listed as a reliable source at wood crafters.

Heart pine is the heartwood of the longleaf pine tree (Pinus palustris), which is no longer harvested for commercial use and is now primarily available only as reclaimed lumber. The lumberyard stuff is slash pine (Pinus elliottii), loblolly pine (Pinus taeda) or less often, shortleaf pine (Pinus echinata).

I agree with Jim W. in this one. Heart pine is the center non-living section of any pine tree. It’s the most durable part of the tree. So far as I know all trees have heart wood. Re pines, when I was a kid I learned that the center section of heart wood in pine, which re referred to as heart pine, in downed trees to include the stumps contained very flammable sap. Strong smell like turpentine. We called it lighter stump. You can build a fire with it in the pouring rain which works exceptional well as I have done it.

Anyway, this could be a regional phraseology thing too. If it’s reclaimed heart pine then it may well be long leaf pine. Depending on how long the board is...it seems expensive. 2x7 at about 14” long equals a board foot. So divide the length of that board by about .9 and it will give you an approximation of how many board feet they are selling you. Divide that into 350 and that’s what you are paying per board foot. Sounds like your paying about $30’ish a board foot. That’s about the same as teak. Probably 5 times what you would pay for DF. Maybe 4 times what you would pay for iroko. etc etc. If it’s true heart of long leaf old growth pine (take a look at the growth rings) it is very good wood. I’d use it. But, I would go with teak for about the same price or DF for a lot less.

No one way to do it. Just options. Some better than others. Some cost more, some cost less. Some wood easier to work with. Etc etc. For structural projects, my recommendation is to err on the side of caution. Choose wisely.

[ghockaday]

We called it FAT WOOD in our area. I can still walk the woods and find it. I love the smell of it. I have seen pictures from my dad's youth of one log filling the old truck it sat on, side to side and front to back. I could not have cut it down for it shear beauty of it. We still have one across the swamp that two men could probably not but their arms around. Probably a very small glimpse of what they were.

Yes it is expensive, but its milled top and bottom, (have to pay for the board feet they turn to sawdust or rip off of the beam. It is as clear as you can find. Their cost for flooring made out of the same lumber is around 7.50 a BF. They specially found me all vertical grain, all heart wood. I could probably buy more BF of 5/4 I am paying for something custom cut I guess. and being odd I have to pay for their time. ET Moore is the name of the company.

I have been unable to find suitable DF yet. If you look at the lumber map it was just not common, Far North East and West of the Rockies. When you think about it make sense, why would you import a wood when you had an abundance of wood that was better for building with. Not lighter of course.

I can find quarter cut white oak and put back what Cape Dory put on, probably the safest option as they engineered that piece of wood.

Teak vs heart pine, everybody has teak, and you are correct when I priced it out, good teak was about the same price.

I thank ya'll for your advise and experience I appreciate all and understand folks feeling responsibly for their advice. But that is all it is. and no one has to take it. I still understand the disclaimers. I'll post some pictures as I progress. (whichever way that will be)

Side note LOL
I do appreciate the input, I love to learn and share what life has taught me and will continue to so. Unfortunately we live in an age where someone can sue because their coffee was too hot or they stuck their hand under a lawn mower. Folks are now reluctant to lend someone a hand, push someones car off the road, pull them out of the ditch or clear their drive way when you use your tractor to do yours. If more folks were responsible for their own actions and decisions............ I rant.
Dee

[John Stone]

$350 is probably a good price if they are milling it for you.

Why do you think the original was oak? Though I am not an authority on all CDs I never heard of CD using oak on the exterior of their boats. In fact, I have never seen oak anywhere on their boats. Any experts out there who can comment on this? I’m always open to learning something new.

DF is not native to the US east coast. But they ship it here. Our local supplier, Atlantic Veneer, sells 2x8 and 2x10 up to 16’. Its kiln dried. Have not bought any from them in a while. It was $5 a BF couple years ago. Probably still less than $10 now.

[ghockaday]

Not definitive proof but every CD 30 that I have looked at looks are exactly the same. Not just oak, same design as well. So not really positive. But assumed?????

Is the fir that you have in NC, consistently good or would I need to drive down and pick through it. Of course then I'd have the drive down in a truck that get 15 mpg and take a day off from work.

I'll post on the open board and see if anyone has seen something other than oak.

[John Stone]

Not definitive proof but every CD 30 that I have looked at looks are exactly the same. Not just oak, same design as well. So not really positive. But assumed?????

Is the fir that you have in NC, consistently good or would I need to drive down and pick through it. Of course then I'd have the drive down in a truck that get 15 mpg and take a day off from work.

I'll post on the open board and see if anyone has seen something other than oak.

The quality of specific lumber varies from shipment to shipment. You would have to look at it yourself. I have bought DF from them and it was good. But I always pick through the wood I purchase.

I would be astounded if the wood you want is not available in your area. From Baltimore to the Tidewater area there is a rich boat building heritage. In line I found Yukon Lumber.

http://www.yukonlumber.com/

Don’t know a thing about them. But, if you have not talked to them it would be a good place to start. If they don’t have what you want maybe they can give you a lead. Also there is a maritime museum in Norfolk area. Try them for a lead. On the Glen L website they have a list in each state that sells marine grade ply and hardwood. None of my sources, that have lots of great wood, are on their list. My point is there is a lot of wood out there you just have to find it. You might look for boat builders in VA and try them.

Of course I mill all my own wood so that gives me a lot of flexibility. Since you don’t have that option kt definitely makes your project more complicated. Lots of communities have wood fellowships and co-ops that have wood shops available to members. I joined one 16 years ago when I was stationed in PA for a year. I learned a ton there and didn’t cost me a thing but my time.

Lots of options. Some better than others.

[Jim Walsh]

Not definitive proof but every CD 30 that I have looked at looks are exactly the same. Not just oak, same design as well. So not really positive. But assumed?????

Is the fir that you have in NC, consistently good or would I need to drive down and pick through it. Of course then I'd have the drive down in a truck that get 15 mpg and take a day off from work.

I'll post on the open board and see if anyone has seen something other than oak.

I’ve never seen a Cape Dory with anything original other than teak for exterior wood either but we learn something new every day. The five Cape Dory’s in my home port which have bowsprit’s are all teak.

[ghockaday]

Jim are they laminated are they solid 2 x 10 teak. This just does not look like teak to me the grain is too thick. I think I will ask this question on the open board also and see if anybody has seen anything other than teak

[ghockaday]

John I was talking to a boat builder at the marina today who works on the local oyster and crab fleet. He said that he has had a lot of trouble getting any decent Douglas fir. He said it’s just growing too fast. He did recommend a place in Tidewater that I might give a call and I also found Yukon earlier today and they do have 2 inch teak and I don’t know what width. They are definitely close enough to visit even though they are in Norfolk which is a miserable drive on any day. I did notice they also had African mahogany not sure about that though purple wood and some other things. At a cost of $350 or so to get the yellow pine it gives me a lot of options for something else. I know teak has a bad reputation for gluing also. And I really don’t want to run the threaded rod through it to pull it together. As it seems like to me a tear on the dotted line a weak spot for something to give. The boat builder did say he had a lot of wood put away and he knew another guy that was actively still building boats and he would tell him to give me a call. He said between the two of them they may have something that suitable.

[JD-MDR]

[quote="
I’ve never seen a Cape Dory with anything original other than teak for exterior wood either but we learn something new every day. The five Cape Dory’s in my home port which have bowsprit’s are all teak.

Mine was definitely not teak. I thought it was Ash

[John Stone]

John I was talking to a boat builder at the marina today who works on the local oyster and crab fleet. He said that he has had a lot of trouble getting any decent Douglas fir. He said it’s just growing too fast. He did recommend a place in Tidewater that I might give a call and I also found Yukon earlier today and they do have 2 inch teak and I don’t know what width. They are definitely close enough to visit even though they are in Norfolk which is a miserable drive on any day. I did notice they also had African mahogany not sure about that though purple wood and some other things. At a cost of $350 or so to get the yellow pine it gives me a lot of options for something else. I know teak has a bad reputation for gluing also. And I really don’t want to run the threaded rod through it to pull it together. As it seems like to me a tear on the dotted line a weak spot for something to give. The boat builder did say he had a lot of wood put away and he knew another guy that was actively still building boats and he would tell him to give me a call. He said between the two of them they may have something that suitable.

Sounds like you are making progress. I would glue teak with resorcinol. My original plank bowsprit had at least two rods through it. Some will advocate epoxy. Do your home work and make your own choice. I don’t think the transverse rods weakens 2” thick teak. They were originally built that way. The spars inside aircraft wings have big holes in them to reduce weight. And remember that the bobstay is countering the load of the headstay. So, the sprit is mostly under compression. Not going to break. But those rods will help hold it together so the glue lines don’t fail. Big wood rudders commonly have drift pins run through them. Holds them together. They are under tremendous pressure. Water is 784 times more dense than air.

Humor yourself and for fun contact Eden Saw. They are in the pacific NW. See what they charge for DF. See what it costs to get it. I’ll tell you this. I bet it will be gorgeous wood.

Remember. You can make the sprit out of all kinds of wood. But, some wood requires more protection than others. You can make it out of Oak if you protect it. But it’s not ideal. My only rebuke to folks working on their boats is when they take avoidable short cuts that puts the boat or crew at risk. Do the best you can from a position of as much knowledge as you can gather, in the time you have available to gather it. Then make your decision snd move on. Your boat is going to love you for it. Oh, and don’t forget John Vigor’s Black Box Theory. It works.

[ghockaday]

Not definitive proof but every CD 30 that I have looked at looks are exactly the same. Not just oak, same design as well. So not really positive. But assumed?????

Is the fir that you have in NC, consistently good or would I need to drive down and pick through it. Of course then I'd have the drive down in a truck that get 15 mpg and take a day off from work.

I'll post on the open board and see if anyone has seen something other than oak.

The quality of specific lumber varies from shipment to shipment. You would have to look at it yourself. I have bought DF from them and it was good. But I always pick through the wood I purchase.

I would be astounded if the wood you want is not available in your area. From Baltimore to the Tidewater area there is a rich boat building heritage. In line I found Yukon Lumber.

http://www.yukonlumber.com/



Don’t know a thing about them. But, if you have not talked to them it would be a good place to start. If they don’t have what you want maybe they can give you a lead. Also there is a maritime museum in Norfolk area. Try them for a lead. On the Glen L website they have a list in each state that sells marine grade ply and hardwood. None of my sources, that have lots of great wood, are on their list. My point is there is a lot of wood out there you just have to find it. You might look for boat builders in VA and try them.

Of course I mill all my own wood so that gives me a lot of flexibility. Since you don’t have that option kt definitely makes your project more complicated. Lots of communities have wood fellowships and co-ops that have wood shops available to members. I joined one 16 years ago when I was stationed in PA for a year. I learned a ton there and didn’t cost me a thing but my time.

Lots of options. Some better than others.

Oh, and the guy at the marina said he would mill it for me. dee

[ghockaday]

John I was talking to a boat builder at the marina today who works on the local oyster and crab fleet. He said that he has had a lot of trouble getting any decent Douglas fir. He said it’s just growing too fast. He did recommend a place in Tidewater that I might give a call and I also found Yukon earlier today and they do have 2 inch teak and I don’t know what width. They are definitely close enough to visit even though they are in Norfolk which is a miserable drive on any day. I did notice they also had African mahogany not sure about that though purple wood and some other things. At a cost of $350 or so to get the yellow pine it gives me a lot of options for something else. I know teak has a bad reputation for gluing also. And I really don’t want to run the threaded rod through it to pull it together. As it seems like to me a tear on the dotted line a weak spot for something to give. The boat builder did say he had a lot of wood put away and he knew another guy that was actively still building boats and he would tell him to give me a call. He said between the two of them they may have something that suitable.

Sounds like you are making progress. I would glue teak with resorcinol. My original plank bowsprit had at least two rods through it. Some will advocate epoxy. Do your home work and make your own choice. I don’t think the transverse rods weakens 2” thick teak. They were originally built that way. The spars inside aircraft wings have big holes in them to reduce weight. And remember that the bobstay is countering the load of the headstay. So, the sprit is mostly under compression. Not going to break. But those rods will help hold it together so the glue lines don’t fail. Big wood rudders commonly have drift pins run through them. Holds them together. They are under tremendous pressure. Water is 784 times more dense than air.

Humor yourself and for fun contact Eden Saw. They are in the pacific NW. See what they charge for DF. See what it costs to get it. I’ll tell you this. I bet it will be gorgeous wood.

Remember. You can make the sprit out of all kinds of wood. But, some wood requires more protection than others. You can make it out of Oak if you protect it. But it’s not ideal. My only rebuke to folks working on their boats is when they take avoidable short cuts that puts the boat or crew at risk. Do the best you can from a position of as much knowledge as you can gather, in the time you have available to gather it. Then make your decision snd move on. Your boat is going to love you for it. Oh, and don’t forget John Vigor’s Black Box Theory. It works.

Great advice from you both, when you said something about the black box I immediately thought Schrödinger's cat. LOL, don't know why just stuff I read. I will call John Vigor's next week also, the oak will be my last resort at this point I don't think I will have to go this route. It appears by Jim's statement that it may be some sort of local replacement. I love to research stuff.

[ghockaday]

[quote="
I’ve never seen a Cape Dory with anything original other than teak for exterior wood either but we learn something new every day. The five Cape Dory’s in my home port which have bowsprit’s are all teak.

Mine was definitely not teak. I thought it was Ash

So here is a pix, everyone I have looked at was this way. JD? Could be Ash, I would not know, the grain is course.

Bow Sprit.jpeg (56.45 KiB) Viewed 816 times

[Jim Walsh]

Jim are they laminated are they solid 2 x 10 teak. This just does not look like teak to me the grain is too thick. I think I will ask this question on the open board also and see if anybody has seen anything other than teak

My bowsprit consists of 13 laminations of teak which is through bolted in 4 or 5 places athwartships, and bunged.
Here are a couple pictures. One is in the raw in which you can see the laminations, and one in which the athwartships bungs are visible, but only for the outboard end.

There is a custom stainless fabrication for an anchor roller on the starboard side which was added by a previous owner after the boat was built.