Asymmetricals and Code 0s

[SVFayaway]

I'm preparing to upgrade my sail inventory with the goal of improving my boat's performance in light airs. I'm thinking about adding either a Code 0 or asymmetrical spinnaker and was hoping someone out there had some experience with these sails. In particular, in whether adding an asymmetrical necessitated adding a bowsprit or other hardware to fly it from. I'm rebuilding my bowsprit now and was thinking I'd reinforce it enough to accommodate the loads of the sail instead of adding a new dedicated bowsprit like most boats seem to do. My forestay attaches on deck so my bowsprit is actually more of an anchor platform, meaning the attachment point for the sail on the end of the bowsprit would be forward of the forestay. I'd also add a bobstay, which my boat did not have previously.

I'm also curious about single handing with an asymmetrical. I'd get a sock (or snuffer?) since my understanding is that a top down spinnaker furler requires a flatter cut and I want the maximum range of use for the sail. It doesn't seem like an ordeal to handle on my own, since I have a windvane and autopilot, but I imagine there are things that can go wrong too. I would get a furler for the Code 0. 95% of my sailing is on my own on weekends and evenings so ease of use is critical for me. I do plan to cruise the boat, down to the Carolinas this year, and across to Bermuda next year.

Finally, I'm having a hard time deciding which sail I'd rather have. I think I'll end up with both, but I can only pick one this year and next year I'll probably need a new mainsail. I like the idea of the Code 0 because it gives me the option to work upwind in light air but it seems less versatile than the asymmetrical. Maybe someone who has both an asymmetrical and a Code 0 or gennaker can speak to which sail they value the most. I know of at least a couple people who use their Code 0s downwind, but it seems sub-optimal to me, and I'm not a fan of sub-optimal. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

Thanks for any advice and pointers.

[ghockaday]

I don't race. We have a asymmetrical spinnaker they we fly off of the bow sprit on our 30. Installed a block on the end, works well and pretty simple. No more than we use it we did not want to spend a bunch in it.

[radsailor]

I have much experience with asymmetrical chutes in J 80 and J105. You will have much less hassle if you have the tack line through a block on the forestay as long as you install a bobstay as you pan. The tack line should run aft though a fairlead on deck to a cabin top or side deck cleat or clutch. this allows you to raise or lower the tack depending on how the sail is behaving.
By have the sail attach well in front of the forestay, you can jibe inside rather than outside which I think is easier. The halyard should lead back to a cabin top cleat/clutch.

I found the sock more trouble than it's worth. If you run the control lines back to the cockpit you have more mess and the hoop of the sock is always getting hung up.If you don't run the lines back to the cockpit you must go on deck to raise or lower the sock and in either case you will need to go on deck to set up or retrieve the sail/sock.

Technique used for J 105. get a spinnaker bag to keep the chute in (https://www.kinderindustries.com/produc ... ching-bag/)and set it below the forward hatch, set up all lines before hand and close hatch leaving the three corners of the sail (and lines) outside. To launch, partially trim the appropriate sheet, open the hatch (if it is not too windy, you can leave the hatch un dogged and it will open when the lines are pulled, pull the tack to the sprit block and haul on the halyard as fast as you can and then trim the sheet. Run very deep keeping the jib/genoa up to keep the chute from filling prematurely.

To take down single handed, set the auto pilot so you are running fairly deep and unfurl the jib/genoa. Make sure there is plenty of spinnaker sheet let out, but not so much that the sail is out of control. I would take the tack line out of the cleat go around cabin top winch and bring forward to tie on a stanchion or pulpit. Take halyard and do the same. Now walk up to the bow and open the hatch. Grab the foot of the sail, slowly release the tack line and start stuffing the sail down the hatch. Then do the same with the halyard, keeping it slowly under control. You can do this by stepping on it after untying from the stanchion.Slow and in control is good. Fast and in control is better.

All of this sounds hectic and it does take a leap of faith, but I did it solo hundred of times without incident although I admit, each time, my heart was racing.

On the J80, I kept the bag in the cabin just inside the companionway. with all lines set up beforehand. To launch, pull out tack, pull on halyard and trim. To retrieve there are several methods

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hdk18iUInI

And do everything you can to keep the chute out of the water. It is a major bitch to pull it back in when it is full of water, although you might catch some shrimp.

I hope all of this helps. Always launch and retrieve on the same side.

[radsailor]

Also, you should probably practice with another person on board to help until you get the hang of it.

[Paul D.]

I've used both code zeros and Asymetricals in socks on a C&C 35 on a Trans Superior race and on our boat respectively. I recommend an asym and a sock for cruising. Run the sock control lines to the mast base and run a tack line through a block as forward as possible back to the cockpit to control the tack as previously mentioned.

We fly a less than ideal spinnaker for Femme with a sock and launching bag and it works pretty well, though she would go higher and more force would go into forward motion than heeling with a well cut Asymetrical. My plan is to sew up a Sailrite one at some point. I'd go with the asymetrical now as there is always the genoa for upwind work and you'd be surprised how wide a wind angle you can use an asymmetrical designed for your IPJ measurements. Also, Code 0 furlers are pretty dear and more complicated than a sock. They would have a straight luff and a bottom up furler and mostly be for beam reach or higher wind angles. An Asym would have a fee luff and a top down furler if you're going that route and be for beam reach or lower wind angles. I prefer the sock as I don't mind going forward for that sort of work, it is simple and you need to go forward to set up the curlers anyway.

Sometimes, during a wintertime Boat Hour by the fire with a Scotch in hand, I feel like if Alberg was designing sailboats today he would build in modern Aysmetrical set ups - even if he was using his lifelong, uncompromising design philosophy of making seaworthy and stable family boats with a slippery hull, kindly motion and enough sail area to make them move.

[Keith]

I fly an asymmetrical with a sock on my 30C. I solo as well. When I replaced my bow sprit several years ago I added a foot to its length and put a hold down out near the end to get the asymmetrical out a bit further. The sock up/down haul is attached just an inch or so forward of the asymmetrical attach point. I have found over the years that keeping tension on the up/down haul is the secret of never having the hoop jam. The trick as others have mentioned is to lay your sheets out from the cockpit to the bow then haul up the asymmetrical making sure it is not twisted. My sock is white with a green stripe so you just keep the green line straight and the up/down haul line straight then attach the up/down haul line block to the hold down and attach you sheets (I use snap shackles on the sheets for quick attachment). With the up/down haul line taught I can pull up the sock in less then 5 seconds and bring it down just as fast after shadowing the asymmetrical with the main to block the wind. I have even sailed up the tight channel to my mooring with just the asymmetrical flying. I headed up into the wind, walked up the deck, grabbed the pickup buoy, cleated off the pendent and pulled down the sock. OK I was showboating a bit but the point is if you set it up properly it is very easy to fly an asymmetrical single handed.

Also with the asymmetrical out an extra foot it makes it very easy to jibe as well. Jibing the asymmetrical does take a bit of practice but what doesn't.

Keith

[Steve Laume]

I too, sail solo almost exclusively and have done some offshore trips. The first thing I would do is get the new main if you think it is a bit out of shape. This will give you much better overall performance than adding a downwind sail.

On Raven, I have a reacher and a, bagged out, asymmetrical, which are both in socks. I also have an adjustable pole for moving the foot of the sail way out there, when sailing deep down wind. Raven is set up with four sheet winches which are nice but not necessary when flying the down wind sails. She already had a bow sprit with a bobstay. I added a big heavy Windline bow roller which covers all of the unsupported section of the sprit. At first I just drilled a hole in one of the upright flanges and attached a block to that. I eventually bent it, ever so slightly, so I added a short section of 1/4 X 4" stainless steel angle iron, bolted up next to it and fashioned an eye in it to accept the block. I run my tack line back to one of the cockpit winches. I only ever attach one sheet and that goes to another winch. The halyard and sock lines stay at the mast because that is where I launch and retrieve the sails. I always get rid of the working fore sails before I launch. I'm not racing so there is no need to squeeze out every last bit of speed but I do try to keep the boat moving well.

I find that I use the reacher far more than the spinnaker. It has a broader range, especially if I pole it out. I rarely tack or jibe these sails as I usually only fly them when I am going to be headed in the same direction for quite some time. I rarely ever leave them up at night. Even if the winds are light and seem settled, one little squall is all it takes to have you out on deck in the dark, messing around with the thing. I don't set them up if there is an obstacle in front of me either. These big sails are powerful and deserve respect. They are not difficult to fly but it does take some time to launch and retrieve them, when sailing alone. When I am doing a passage, I leave the sheet and tack line, in place and clipped to the life lines. I still have the clutter in the cockpit but at least I don't have to rig the lines each time I hoist the sail.

Once one of those sails is up and pulling, it doesn't get much better, Steve.

[John Stone]

I am with Steve L on this one. I have both. I have a fair amount of racing experience from my younger days. F 470s, quarter and half tonners, and J 24s. I am quite comfortable flying symmetric and asymmetric kites. But, I use our navy blue 2 oz multi purpose reacher almost exclusively in the Far Reach. It’s just so versatile. It’s about a 150 percent. Has a spectra Luff and five or six hanks. If I am off the wind I fly it free. If I am beating I use the jib hanks. I don’t have or want a sock. It’s big and powerful. Off the wind I set it on the pole or sometimes I drop the main and set the drifter with the sheet led to a block on the end of the boom and fly the genoa or working jib off the pole. Twin headsails down wind. Nothing better on a cruising boat.

I don’t see the value of a code zero on a boat under about 35-40’. They are just not necessary if you have even a modicum of skill.

Part of the challenge especially on smaller boats is carrying a bunch of sails just takes up a lot of room so having sails that can do more than one thing is really useful.

There is no one answer to this. A really good set of working sails is the best bang for your buck. After that then a drifter probably. And if you just have money to burn then get whatever you want after you have all the other important stuff taken care of.

[SVFayaway]

Thanks for all the input, lots of good and very helpful information here. I think I've decided on the asymmetrical. I guess I can't quite shake my racing instincts, and plus, I just *like* flying a spinnaker, something I haven't had much chance to do since college.

John, what's the difference between a Code 0 and a reacher? I was under the impression that a Code 0 is basically a fancy reacher on a furler. The purpose seems to be the same, it's just the method of deployment that's different. I have heard of people deploying Code 0s with a launch bag or sock which might be how I'll start, depending on what my budget allows.

[John Stone]

Thanks for all the input, lots of good and very helpful information here. I think I've decided on the asymmetrical. I guess I can't quite shake my racing instincts, and plus, I just *like* flying a spinnaker, something I haven't had much chance to do since college.

John, what's the difference between a Code 0 and a reacher? I was under the impression that a Code 0 is basically a fancy reacher on a furler. The purpose seems to be the same, it's just the method of deployment that's different. I have heard of people deploying Code 0s with a launch bag or sock which might be how I'll start, depending on what my budget allows.

Your definition is the same as mine. A code zero incorporates a continuous line furler. I have never seen one used with a sock or snuffer. It would be redundant.

[SVFayaway]

I guess when someone describes a Code 0 with a sock they're really describing a reacher. That definition works for me. I'll try out the asymmetrical with the sock and see how I like it before investing in the furling Code 0. We definitely have different approaches to sailing but I appreciate your input John, it's always informative.

[John Stone]

I guess when someone describes a Code 0 with a sock they're really describing a reacher. That definition works for me. I'll try out the asymmetrical with the sock and see how I like it before investing in the furling Code 0. We definitely have different approaches to sailing but I appreciate your input John, it's always informative.

No worries. We all got to figure out what works for us. If flying a symmetrical spinnaker makes you happy then go for it.

I’m not a sailmaker but I think a reacher is the weight and cut of the sail. Code zero is a reacher on a continuous furler than can be dropped and stowed as an entire system. A sock is just a type of snuffer for a big light weight headsail that is flown free—like a reacher of a asymmetric spinnaker.

All these sails are great additions to help keep your boat moving in lighter conditions.

[fmueller]

That’s such a cool option John ... being able to fly it free or hanked-on.

I’ve been enjoying having the working jib on my little boat because I can just ignore the wind reports (almost) cause finally I have a setup that’s really good when it’s fresh ... but then of course when i finally turn tail and head north on the bay after beating south all day, I sometimes wish I had something big I could hoist, especially if it’s late and the wind is dropping. It would have to suit my solo sailing habit ... plus my boat doesn’t have a bow sprit and I’d have to be able to jibe too ... Changing headsails on a roller furler is not an option either in any kind of wind ... hmmm ... I’m stuck.

Two summers ago I raced on a Dufour 36. We flew an asym out of a bag usually from the lee rail just forward of the mast, sometimes the hatch, no sock. Left the jib up for the hoist, then rolled the jib ... me with my wingspan tailed the active sheet, then ground the winch for the trimmer ... a solo sailor would need a sock for sure ... we were usually 6 or 7 ... big asymmetric sails scare me more than trad spins ... bringing all that sail thru the slot is just a recipe for trouble .. and we had out share.

[Frenchy]

Changing headsails on a roller furler is not an option either in any kind of wind ... hmmm ... I’m stuck.

I have to agree, Fred. I'd like more options with my boat that I could do single-handedly but don't know what
to do. I have a conventional spinnaker that came with the boat but have never used it and most of the people
I sail with are non-sailors. There's no bowsprit on the 33 so rigging an asymmetrical and getting the tack
forward of the rolled up genoa might be a problem.
Right now, I pole out the 135 genoa in following winds and it works pretty well. When it's blowing hard
as it often does on Buzzard's Bay, I struggle. Rolling in the genoa is not too hard but gives a lousy shape and
reefing the main in choppy seas and high winds is a bit scary, to be honest. I need to clip on from now on, as
I've had a close call. - Jean

[John Stone]

Changing headsails on a roller furler is not an option either in any kind of wind ... hmmm ... I’m stuck.

I have to agree, Fred. I'd like more options with my boat that I could do single-handedly but don't know what
to do. I have a conventional spinnaker that came with the boat but have never used it and most of the people
I sail with are non-sailors. There's no bowsprit on the 33 so rigging an asymmetrical and getting the tack
forward of the rolled up genoa might be a problem.
Right now, I pole out the 135 genoa in following winds and it works pretty well. When it's blowing hard
as it often does on Buzzard's Bay, I struggle. Rolling in the genoa is not too hard but gives a lousy shape and
reefing the main in choppy seas and high winds is a bit scary, to be honest. I need to clip on from now on, as
I've had a close call. - Jean

Well, that’s exactly the purpose of a Code Zero. It’s a reacher connected to a small continuous line furler. You attach the pendant with its integrated very small drum to the deck and host the sail on a halyard all furled up around its dyneema luff line. You unfurl it and bam, your in business. When finished you pull on the continuous line and it furls up. You lower the halyard and it drops to the deck like a sausage. You put it in a sail bag with the furling drum attached and still furled up and stow it away.

Check out Colligo Marine continuous line and Code Zero furlers: https://www.colligomarine.com/products/ ... -0-furlers