StaySail Leech Curl

[ghockaday]

CD 30 Cutter, no matter how I trim and adjust the leech line I still end up with a curl in the middle of the leech of the staysail. Is it cut wrong? The sail is about a year old. It was made by Quantum Sails. Dennis

[Jim Walsh]

CD 30 Cutter, no matter how I trim and adjust the leech line I still end up with a curl in the middle of the leech of the staysail. Is it cut wrong? The sail is about a year old. It was made by Quantum Sails. Dennis

Your clew outhaul should be tight and loosen the leech line. Now when under full sail on a beam reach trim your headsail and main until the luff telltales are all streaming aft in unison. Now trim your staysail until it’s luff telltales are also streaming aft. If the leech is still cupped try tightening the leech until you get a nice curve which doesn’t flutter or has an exaggerated curve. If that is not possible it’s time to contact Quantum and get their advice on remedial actions. They should stand behind a one year old sail.

[ghockaday]

CD 30 Cutter, no matter how I trim and adjust the leech line I still end up with a curl in the middle of the leech of the staysail. Is it cut wrong? The sail is about a year old. It was made by Quantum Sails. Dennis

Your clew outhaul should be tight and loosen the leech line. Now when under full sail on a beam reach trim your headsail and main until the luff telltales are all streaming aft in unison. Now trim your staysail until it’s luff telltales are also streaming aft. If the leech is still cupped try tightening the leech until you get a nice curve which doesn’t flutter or has an exaggerated curve. If that is not possible it’s time to contact Quantum and get their advice on remedial actions. They should stand behind a one year old sail.

Jim, thank you for the reply, I have tried all of your advice to no avail. I have also tried the extreme the other direction as well as everywhere in between. I think covid put the loft in hampton out of business. and this is on anypoint of sail in any wind

[ghockaday]

I finally got a reply from Quantum and they are going to come by and take a ride. The only way I have gotten it out was to disconnect if from the boom and use a snatch block about cabin width and get a lower angle on it. On the boom and outhaul it is putting to much pressure down on the leech and pulling very little on the foot.

I would love to remove the boom but I don't want to drill a bunch of holes in the cabin top for staysail tracks.

[John Stone]

I finally got a reply from Quantum and they are going to come by and take a ride. The only way I have gotten it out was to disconnect if from the boom and use a snatch block about cabin width and get a lower angle on it. On the boom and outhaul it is putting to much pressure down on the leech and pulling very little on the foot.

I would love to remove the boom but I don't want to drill a bunch of holes in the cabin top for staysail tracks.

Good on Quantum for stepping up to a sail along.

My stays’l is a workhorse. That’s one of the reason I eliminated the stays’l boom. Sail trim is better without it. The other reason is eliminating the boom negates it as a weapons to be used against you.

I recognize many sailors like the boom. No one right answer.

Happy sailing.

[ghockaday]

I don't like the boom either, in some good wind it can get pretty violent. Did you add tracks? I am going to take a look and some of your pictures and see if I can catch a glimpse of it. I think the sheeting angle is just wrong but I have not seen many people complain. We use it all of the time, sometimes it is the only head sail we use. Dennis

[John Stone]

I don't like the boom either, in some good wind it can get pretty violent. Did you add tracks? I am going to take a look and some of your pictures and see if I can catch a glimpse of it. I think the sheeting angle is just wrong but I have not seen many people complain. We use it all of the time, sometimes it is the only head sail we use. Dennis

There has been a lot of discussion about stays’ls. Below is a link with some photos and more detailed explanation. For some reason it won’t hyperlink.

http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... ’l#p194286

[ghockaday]

Thank you, how did you decide where the leads went? I worked with mine in lite air and moved it around by hand. It looks like the outer cabin edge about as far back is as the mast. right where there is a big chunk of metal under the mast. It would be a horrible place to have to put leads.

I already have two winches on the cabin top now. The ones that the original traveler and current staysail sheet use. I tried to utilize the foot pads of the original traveler with turning blocks back to the winch and cleats but the angle was way to far back.

If I put a lead where you have and my wife stumped her toe on it, I'd have to walk the plank. I may try out board a little further than where you are and see if that may work. Hmmmm, I'm about 2 feet narrower? so any where on the deck is probably too wide now that I think about it.

Like you new holes in the cabin top are not an option. I'm kind of running out of options.

Thank you for your input. Dennis

[John Stone]

Thank you, how did you decide where the leads went? I worked with mine in lite air and moved it around by hand. It looks like the outer cabin edge about as far back is as the mast. right where there is a big chunk of metal under the mast. It would be a horrible place to have to put leads.

I already have two winches on the cabin top now. The ones that the original traveler and current staysail sheet use. I tried to utilize the foot pads of the original traveler with turning blocks back to the winch and cleats but the angle was way to far back.

If I put a lead where you have and my wife stumped her toe on it, I'd have to walk the plank. I may try out board a little further than where you are and see if that may work. Hmmmm, I'm about 2 feet narrower? so any where on the deck is probably too wide now that I think about it.

Like you new holes in the cabin top are not an option. I'm kind of running out of options.

Thank you for your input. Dennis

My sailmaker and I discussed it. He built a sail plan for the boat. I told him how high I wanted the tack and clue and I didn’t want the staysail to be overlapping. Once the shape of the sail is determined it’s just sail geometry to locate the position of the lead. From half way between the head and tack draw a line back through the clue and continue on to the deck. Not that difficult. The way you adjust the shape the. Is by shortening and lengthening the tack pendant. Same effect as moving leads fire and aft.

Because it’s a stays’l you want the clew just forward of the forward lowers so when you ease the sail out just a bit the shroud won’t interfere with it.

You want the sheeting angle 3°-5° tighter then the jib sheeting angle else they won’t set correctly together when beating. On the cabin top is ok. Most people put them there but I think that’s usually over sheeted because these are full keel boats. You can’t sail them 35° to the wind. You’ll slow the boat down. So on the cabin top if you must. If you have winches on the cabin top already then it makes sense. Work with your sail maker but you need to do your own homework too. Younger sailmakers not familiar with full keel boats can lead you astray.

[John Stone]

Something I failed to include with my last response is I have a longer bowsprit. Which means I moved the tack of the stays’l to the stem (to make the stays’l bigger), which means the foot of the staysail is longer than on a stock boat. Thus, I was able to install the lead a little wider and have the same sheeting angle as a boat with the tack of the stays’l a little further aft. So, all that means that installing the leads on the cabin top might be correct for you. But don’t guess.

The best way to sort through this is to make a diagram (plan view) of your boat and draw the angles from the tack aft. I went to my work book and took a photo of the diagram I made for the Far Reach. I made this drawing early on in the design process. The jib geometry and staysail geometry are on the right (red circle). Jib 15° and stays’l is 12°. The jib is a 100 percent and not a 130 as noted on the left side of the diagram. Since I have taller mast and longer bowsprit my 100 percent jib is probably about a 130-140 percent on a stock boat. But I digress.

None of the math or geometry is difficult. I made s lot of mods to my boat. And they all turned out as well or better than I expected. But I never guessed. I did a lot of research, made drawings, made mock ups when necessary, talked to sailors I respected who had boats similar to mine, thought a lot, then executed. It is the same approach I am taking with the engine install.

If you are thoughtful and patient about it there is a very high probability it will turn out as you desire.

Happy sailing.