Preparing for the Worst: Man Overboard
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Re: Preparing for the Worst: Man Overboard
Good discussion! I have one additional factor to add that I don't think has been brought up yet--your surroundings. "Stay on the boat" is excellent advice, and in a bluewater situation, it's likely to be life-saving. However, that's not where all sailing happens. I sail on relatively sheltered and populated waters. I don't plan on getting off the boat, but if that happens I definitely want to be wearing a PFD. If I am, I have a good chance of getting spotted and picked up, or maybe even swimming my way to one shore or another.
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Re: Preparing for the Worst: Man Overboard
The boat has a better chance of being spotted than you do, in which case the Coast Guard is likely to start a search. Note that frequent log entries or the equivalent are good hints on where they might start looking. With longer odds, of course, this might help you offshore, as well... odds of spotting someone in the water without a pfd are about zero; with a bright color, better; knowing where to look, even better. And training... the longer you can stay alive in the water, the better your odds.Ben Miller wrote:Good discussion! I have one additional factor to add that I don't think has been brought up yet--your surroundings. "Stay on the boat" is excellent advice, and in a bluewater situation, it's likely to be life-saving. However, that's not where all sailing happens. I sail on relatively sheltered and populated waters. I don't plan on getting off the boat, but if that happens I definitely want to be wearing a PFD. If I am, I have a good chance of getting spotted and picked up, or maybe even swimming my way to one shore or another.
https://archive.seattletimes.com/archiv ... ug=2155247
Fair winds, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
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Re: Preparing for the Worst: Man Overboard
There is no one answer fits all here. The professional safety people will tell you to wear a pfd with a tether attachment, a strobe, and a PLB. And, I suppose there are places where that might be appropriate...you can decide. It seems to me small unstable boats on choppy water are more likely to see some one go over the side. Kayakers in cold water are a good candidate especially if they are inexperienced. Or the boats swamp (like fishing skiffs) and the occupants are in the water. This is especially true on boats without lifelines. Folks who are not athletic or who have vertigo issues are vulnerable. People that don’t have good decision making skills are vulnerable. Sailors who are inexperienced and put their boats a bad situation where they can get knocked down or capsized need extra protection. Dinghies are always capable of being knocked down (been there and done that). And not to go off on a tangent but I met a guy in the boat yard the other day with a 46’ ketch on the hard who has had 20 years of catastrophes due to what sounded to me like just flawed decision making skills. As he described these events it occurred to me he was the cause of all of them. A walking disaster.
I don’t mean to sound argumentative. But, I don’t want to fall off the boat regardless where it is—blue water or on a bay. If we stay on our boats all this is academic. If we fall off the boat no matter all the safety gear we have on, odds of survival drop dramatically. I’m talking about big tough stable keel boats not boats that can put their occupants in the water on any given day. And I agree that we all need a way to get back on our boat when it’s anchored or on a mooring or the dock and we find ourselves in the water. There was a great thread someone started on this a couple weeks ago. I thought it was very interesting and insightful. It made me think.
With a few exceptions most of this is about fear management. We do what we do to manage our fear. I am, of course, vulnerable to this too. And it’s not necessarily a bad thing. I have on occasion worn my PFD when beating out through Beaufort Inlet in big waves and I have worn my harness offshore at night or even during the day when I got scared or just experienced some weird bad vibe. Listen to that voice in your head or ignore it at your peril. But, I don’t think safety gear makes us any safer when the safest thing is to stay on the boat. And, staying on the boat in a wide variety of conditions is an art and a science. And there is an argument that too much (?) safety gear can make us careless. That would actually make an interesting experiment.
I also feel like certain kinds of safety gear, or maybe it’s just the way we employ it, can be down right hazardous. Case in point: My boat has about as few deck obstacles as any boat out there. Yet every time I have worn a harness and tether it gets caught on something at the worst time. I have, more than once, literally, been jerked off my feet moving across the deck as a result of the tether’s length getting effectively shortened. And to untangle it I typically have to let go something that puts me at risk. It’s a distraction and creates anxiety for me. I have taken to snapping a few tethers in strategic places on the boat ahead of time so that when I wear a harness I work from tether to tether. I have one in the cockpit. One at the mast. One on the foredeck. This seems to work much better. Along with all the tips we have shared staying on the boat should be rule number one and not difficult to achieve. As someone else pointed out, very few people fall off sailboats and hose that due are almost always racing and have PFDs on. Many of these seem to drown because they got hit in the head so the PFD’s main contribution was allowing their body to be recovered.
Anyway, I think we need to each do what is right for us. Each of us is different. Our brain are different. Our fear management is different. Our boats are different. The situation we are sailing in is different. So we need to manage our safety in most practicable way possible.
Stay on the boat. And if you don’t...I wish you the best of luck.
I don’t mean to sound argumentative. But, I don’t want to fall off the boat regardless where it is—blue water or on a bay. If we stay on our boats all this is academic. If we fall off the boat no matter all the safety gear we have on, odds of survival drop dramatically. I’m talking about big tough stable keel boats not boats that can put their occupants in the water on any given day. And I agree that we all need a way to get back on our boat when it’s anchored or on a mooring or the dock and we find ourselves in the water. There was a great thread someone started on this a couple weeks ago. I thought it was very interesting and insightful. It made me think.
With a few exceptions most of this is about fear management. We do what we do to manage our fear. I am, of course, vulnerable to this too. And it’s not necessarily a bad thing. I have on occasion worn my PFD when beating out through Beaufort Inlet in big waves and I have worn my harness offshore at night or even during the day when I got scared or just experienced some weird bad vibe. Listen to that voice in your head or ignore it at your peril. But, I don’t think safety gear makes us any safer when the safest thing is to stay on the boat. And, staying on the boat in a wide variety of conditions is an art and a science. And there is an argument that too much (?) safety gear can make us careless. That would actually make an interesting experiment.
I also feel like certain kinds of safety gear, or maybe it’s just the way we employ it, can be down right hazardous. Case in point: My boat has about as few deck obstacles as any boat out there. Yet every time I have worn a harness and tether it gets caught on something at the worst time. I have, more than once, literally, been jerked off my feet moving across the deck as a result of the tether’s length getting effectively shortened. And to untangle it I typically have to let go something that puts me at risk. It’s a distraction and creates anxiety for me. I have taken to snapping a few tethers in strategic places on the boat ahead of time so that when I wear a harness I work from tether to tether. I have one in the cockpit. One at the mast. One on the foredeck. This seems to work much better. Along with all the tips we have shared staying on the boat should be rule number one and not difficult to achieve. As someone else pointed out, very few people fall off sailboats and hose that due are almost always racing and have PFDs on. Many of these seem to drown because they got hit in the head so the PFD’s main contribution was allowing their body to be recovered.
Anyway, I think we need to each do what is right for us. Each of us is different. Our brain are different. Our fear management is different. Our boats are different. The situation we are sailing in is different. So we need to manage our safety in most practicable way possible.
Stay on the boat. And if you don’t...I wish you the best of luck.
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Re: Preparing for the Worst: Man Overboard
Fire prevention and fire fighting are apt analogies. Practicing both is good practice.
Fair winds, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
Re: Preparing for the Worst: Man Overboard
I cannot remember his name but one of those guys who do the Jester Challenge had a video(s) about his boat renovation, (Junk rig etc.,) and he said he thought lifelines were unsafe and used, (I think,) some kind of big ringbolts to clip into in the manner you are describing. He could go from clip to clip with two short leashes. I always thought a jackline would make for an unpleasant tumble/slide. If I find his video I will put it up. He kind of had a spacecraft thing going on which didn't seem like that much "fun" but to each his own.John Stone wrote: It’s a distraction and creates anxiety for me. I have taken to snapping a few tethers in strategic places on the boat ahead of time so that when I wear a harness I work from tether to tether. I have one in the cockpit. One at the mast. One on the foredeck. This seems to work much better.
Re: Preparing for the Worst: Man Overboard
To the original question. I think you need to decide what to do ahead of time so no one has to think very much in a crisis. I would think the best bet for the inexperienced would be as someone else said seat cushions, a life sling, release the sails and motor. Emphasis on having someone,(if more than one,) do nothing but keep eyes on the mob.
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Re: Preparing for the Worst: Man Overboard
Just a couple of ideas.
First, it is much safer peeing into a Home Depot disposable plastic paint bucket than standing at the back rail. A 6 pack of 1qt. buckets costs $4. It is also a useful size for someone who gets sea-sick. I usually have a couple of these buckets in a cockpit side locker. They are also great for changing oil in tight locations.
Second, if you use a Lifesling (highly recommended) you still have the problem of getting the victim back on board. If you are towing a dinghy, then an intermediate stop into the towed dinghy is the best bet. However if you have headed out offshore and it’s rough enough to lose someone overboard, there’s a good chance you don’t have a dinghy back there. The swim ladder on my CD28 is just slightly past vertical and not the easiest boarding route for someone who is less than athletic. I have always carried a rock-climbers “etrier” ladder (you can get these at all sorts of internet sporting goods stores). These ladders are made from nylon webbing and “pop open” when deployed. They are usually attached with a single snaplink (karabiner) and you can easily deploy them from a stanchion or railing, giving you an instant boarding ladder. The nylon webbing won’t scratch your gel-coat.
The same “etrier” ladder can be also used for assisting the less athletic to board an inflatable dinghy after they have been out snorkeling. Again, nylon webbing doesn’t tear up inflatable tubes.
Ed
First, it is much safer peeing into a Home Depot disposable plastic paint bucket than standing at the back rail. A 6 pack of 1qt. buckets costs $4. It is also a useful size for someone who gets sea-sick. I usually have a couple of these buckets in a cockpit side locker. They are also great for changing oil in tight locations.
Second, if you use a Lifesling (highly recommended) you still have the problem of getting the victim back on board. If you are towing a dinghy, then an intermediate stop into the towed dinghy is the best bet. However if you have headed out offshore and it’s rough enough to lose someone overboard, there’s a good chance you don’t have a dinghy back there. The swim ladder on my CD28 is just slightly past vertical and not the easiest boarding route for someone who is less than athletic. I have always carried a rock-climbers “etrier” ladder (you can get these at all sorts of internet sporting goods stores). These ladders are made from nylon webbing and “pop open” when deployed. They are usually attached with a single snaplink (karabiner) and you can easily deploy them from a stanchion or railing, giving you an instant boarding ladder. The nylon webbing won’t scratch your gel-coat.
The same “etrier” ladder can be also used for assisting the less athletic to board an inflatable dinghy after they have been out snorkeling. Again, nylon webbing doesn’t tear up inflatable tubes.
Ed