Chain vs rope scope question

[Neil Gordon]

the 12's and 20's were always rigged in pairs and so set, usually in a tide stream. When the tide turned they didn't have to re-set, and they performed very well.

Is there some sort of day shape or anchor light that lets other boats entering a crowded anchorage that you have an anchor in front of you AND one behind you?

We lie mostly to wind and to a lesser extent to current. I understand the dynamics of a 180 degree shift... but what about 90 degrees with anchors set fore and aft?

[Neil Gordon]

>>What we found last few times in Penobscot Bay and further east, we were the only boat on rope and let out a lot more scope than other boats ...<<

Yes, exactly. The other boats are at 3:1, while I'm trying to sleep better at 7:1.

>>I don't have a windlass (yet) and it it more work to haul up the extra chain but manageable. In 30 foot depth I'm hauling the same weight at a time as I was before.<<

I'm not having a hard time with 30'... as you said, adding the anchor for the last [insert depth here] is the hard part, although that gets lighter, too, with every link that's brought on board. A bit of bounce in the bow helps a lot, too... haul as it goes down; hold as it goes down. (This works for climbing companionway ladders in a seaway, too.).

[Paul D.]

I installed an electric windlass and all chain rode recently as a concession to back surgery. While I did not have holding issues with the former anchoring set up - 35lb CQR, 60' 5/16 BBB and 200' 1/2" 3 strand, I would anchor in about 12' and let out about 80' feet thus having a nice 20' snubber - having all chain with that CQR now works very well in the sandy/rocky/mud bottoms of western Lake Superior. Though I do now have to set a snubber line, it allows us to have a shorter scope if we are in a tight cove or someone anchors a little close.

A couple weekends ago we sat anchored through a Force 11 storm and watched two boats anchored on mostly line near us drag out toward the Keweenaw Peninsula. The winds reached 70MPH (derecho) just on shore and did some minor damage to a friend's CD36. A state of emergency was called in the little community there. But we didn't drag. Since I had set the anchor nearly opposite from where the wind came, either it reset itself or the chain wasn't even pulled all the way around, I could not tell which but I suspect the latter.

We anchor much more often than not so I really like going heavy on the gear and think the all-chain has rode helped some. An added benefit was the additional chain in the little bow locker trimmed the boat back to her lines. So that's a point to consider as well.

[Jim Walsh]

and all chain rode .

What length chain did you decide on?
There is nothing more important in our lives than ground tackle when the wind pipes up.

[Paul D.]

I got 200' 5/15" ACCO G4 as that is more than enough for our cruising area of Lake Superior as we always anchor in under 25', fit the windlass gypsy and was about right per my calculations for weight needed to trim the boat. It is moderately heavier for foot than the old BBB so doing the math was a little tricky, but it worked.

Femme squatted at the stern when I got her and continued no matter how I shifted weight. I always wondered how/if that affected performance under sail and motor and I feel she goes along little easier now. The only real deck stowage is far aft or in the port cockpit locker, which already has the calorifier, batteries and fridge compressor so this did the trick.

[Cathy Monaghan]

We’ve got 50’ of 5/16” Hi-test G4 chain with 200’ of 1/2” plaited line spliced to it plus a 35 lb. CQR for our Cape Dory 32. We also have a Fortress 23 with it’s own rode. I seldom set the anchor using less than 5:1 scope — usually use 6:1 or 7:1. If it’s going to be stormy I’ll let out some more if there’s room to swing. Only once have we anchored using less than 100’ of rode. I don’t think we’ve ever anchored in depths less than 12’ at high tide. And in New England waters where tides are greater than 9’, we quite often find ourselves anchoring where depths can be over 30’ at high tide. So make sure your combined chain/rope rode is not less than 250’.

[Neil Gordon]

I'm thinking that my wish list will include another 30' of chain, and going one size up, from 22 to 33. That still seems within the realm of manual lifting... and I'll sleep better.

[kerrydeare]

the 12's and 20's were always rigged in pairs and so set, usually in a tide stream. When the tide turned they didn't have to re-set, and they performed very well.

Is there some sort of day shape or anchor light that lets other boats entering a crowded anchorage that you have an anchor in front of you AND one behind you? We lie mostly to wind and to a lesser extent to current. I understand the dynamics of a 180 degree shift... but what about 90 degrees with anchors set fore and aft?

The Danforth "twins" were set in pairs only in situations where a pair was indicated: i.e., in a tidal stream where the tide was at least as important, and usually more important, than the wind. It may seem surprising but the current is very often much more significant that the wind, particularly with long-keel boats. This becomes clear when the vessel becomes "tide bound" and one tries to either disentangle both rodes, pull against the tide, or similar situations. Otherwise, we were usually on 60 or 80 feet of chain, the CQR 35, and as much rode as was indicated. IOW, standard procedure.

As far as day shapes are concerned, I'm not sure there exists a separate shape for each type of anchor or anchoring arrangement. Maybe another person can address that one.

[Neil Gordon]

the 12's and 20's were always rigged in pairs and so set, usually in a tide stream. When the tide turned they didn't have to re-set, and they performed very well.

Is there some sort of day shape or anchor light that lets other boats entering a crowded anchorage that you have an anchor in front of you AND one behind you? We lie mostly to wind and to a lesser extent to current. I understand the dynamics of a 180 degree shift... but what about 90 degrees with anchors set fore and aft?

The Danforth "twins" were set in pairs only in situations where a pair was indicated: i.e., in a tidal stream where the tide was at least as important, and usually more important, than the wind. It may seem surprising but the current is very often much more significant that the wind, particularly with long-keel boats. This becomes clear when the vessel becomes "tide bound" and one tries to either disentangle both rodes, pull against the tide, or similar situations. Otherwise, we were usually on 60 or 80 feet of chain, the CQR 35, and as much rode as was indicated. IOW, standard procedure.

As far as day shapes are concerned, I'm not sure there exists a separate shape for each type of anchor or anchoring arrangement. Maybe another person can address that one.

[John Stone]

Never heard of a day shape or night light for separate stern anchor. You are anchored or you are not.

[Cathy Monaghan]

As far as I know, the only day shape for a vessel at anchor is a black ball. The only vessels I’ve seen actually using them have been commercial vessels. I’ve never seen any pleasure craft use one.

[Jim Walsh]

As far as I know, the only day shape for a vessel at anchor is a black ball. The only vessels I’ve seen actually using them have been commercial vessels. I’ve never seen any pleasure craft use one.

I’ve observed several of the European cruisers using the anchor ball in Bermuda. I’ve only seen a handful of cruisers using them in New England over my lifetime. I sailed by a sail training schooner yesterday afternoon. She was anchored in West Harbor at Fishers Island N.Y., she had her anchor ball displayed. It was at least 8’ in diameter but was an inflatable unit. I couldn’t take a photo but I got this off the web. She’s 112’ long and looked meticulously cared for.

[Neil Gordon]

I’ve observed several of the European cruisers using the anchor ball in Bermuda.

I doubt many recreational boaters would even know what the black ball indicates. Also, depending on location, it's easily mistaken for a radar reflector.

That said, being a traditionalist (and ex-USN Signalman), on my winter project list is to make up some day shapes... they're easily crafted from light plywood, with slots that let them store flat but present as solid 3D shapes.

[Steve Laume]

All the mega yachts I encountered, this summer, were using day signals to indicate they were at anchor.

You might want to get lighting for the yacht's name as well, Steve.