More on topping lifts

[Joe Myerson]

Shamed by Steve Laume (on the Cape Dory Fans FB board), I'd like to opt for fixing what I've got, assuming I can shanghai some friends into hoisting me to the masthead.

So, here's one last question: Does anybody know what the rig for the masthead block for the topping lift on a 25D looks like?

The line came down with a small Shaeffer block still intact, so I assume it was a shackle and /or clevis that failed. However, I'd hate to get up the mast to discover something more complex.

Any ieeas?

--Joe
PS, I'll deal with the issue of Boomkicker or rigid bangs when the season is over.

[John Stone]

I built my own rig so I know it inside and out but even so I have yet to make in to the top for a project without having to make a second trip. It’s good to try to take everything you need but getting to the top and back safely is an important sailor’s skill. Everyone needs to have simple safe ways of getting to the top.

Plan on a second trip and if you pull it off without needing one then well done.

[mgphl52]

Well... it always pays to good friends around.
Take small line up with you.
Then you can yell down that you need...

[fmueller]

Joe. You can probably go to the RigRite site and find a pic of your oem masthead casting. If it’s like my 27 masthead it will have clevis pins for the fore and aft stays and tucked under the pin for the aft stay is a thru bolt for the lift. The stays have toggles bestride the pins but my topping lift is just a simple stainless thimble that the bolt secures. I rebuilt my masthead this year so I had a good look at mine. Hard to imagine this bolt actually failing so maybe you had additional hardware?

With a spotting scope or a good pair of binos you should be able to just have a look at it from deck level.

If you can safely get up the mast, your ground crew should be able to ferry parts and tools up to you via messenger line. You’ll want to use the main halyard for hoist and jib halyard as a safety.

I found the page for the "not Alberg" 25 CD-3 mast, but not sure you don’t have the next size up CD-4 mast same as mine. Rig Rite does not specify which mast section was used by the 25d. But I think in this range the mastheads were all very similar.

I’ve posted pics of my masthead stripped and then rebuilt. You can just see the topping lift thimble nestled in front of the rear stay toggle. The whole reason for me doing the rebuild was to add a proper spinnaker bail. I had a guy in Bristol make one up and it is way better than anything I could possibly find in the net ... and just $50.. then just because I had it all apart I added an anchor light, moved the windex out onto a nice piece of alu stock and repositioned the VHF wand. Then I ran new wire properly secured internally to rhe wire guide tracks that most of these mast sections have ... no more wire slap.

cheers

PS ... even if I had a kicker I think I'd keep the lift.

https://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Spartan_S ... 3_mast.php

[Jim Walsh]

My masthead casting is nearly identical to Fred’s (it just doesn’t have the eye appeal) but I have a clevis pin instead of a bolt...same as those for my sheave axles, forestay, and backstay. One would think the 25D would be similarly set up for the sake of uniformity in the production environment.
Joe, I would advise you to supervise and let a youngster from Parker’s take the trip to the masthead.

[wikakaru]

Just use a set of binoculars before you go up to take a look at what's up there.

--Jim

[tjr818]

Just use a set of binoculars before you go up to take a look at what's up there.

--Jim

We use our camera, zoom in as close as you can. Use a tripod or hold the camera VERY steady. Then view the photo on you computer and you can zoom in remarkably close to pick up details.

[Joe Myerson]

Thanks for the images, Fred.
One significant difference between the 27 and the 25D is in the controls for the topping lift. Yours is spliced at the masthead and adjusted at the end of the boom. Mine is cleated to the mast, run through a small block and attached to the end of the boom.

Adjustment has always been a PITA, because the line running up the mast from the cleat has to cross the halyard near the top.

I'm thinking I might end up having the yard fix it ... but I'll look at it with my binoculars first.

Thanks all!

--Joe

[fmueller]

Joe ... I thought something like that might be the case.

I don't see why you couldn't modify to be like I have on my 27: the thimble/splice at the masthead runs (1/4' line) to a small block about 2'-3' above the clew end of the boom. So most of the topping lift is like a long pendant. A second line (1/4") runs from a cast eyelet on the clew casting (simple bowline) up to that small block and then down to a small cheek block about a foot from the end of the boom and then forward along the boom to a cleat on the boom about 2' from the mast. A few small fittings keep it snug to the boom. This removes the topping lift from running up the mast, the attendant noise at anchor, and any interference with exposed halyards. On my boat it's on the port side of the boom. My slab reefing lines run along the starboard side.

When I got my boat the secondary line was much shorter and terminated near the clew on a small cleat ... it's much better being able to adjust the lift while at the mast. The new cleat near the mast on the boom is a jam cleat so I don't have to fumble doing a proper hitch when I go to reef. I cut the topping lift line just long enough so I can just let it hang slack when released - put a fig 8 in it so it is captured by the small jam cleat which has two "legs".

I left the old cleat at the clew end of the boom - just on the off chance that in some weird emergency I might need to lift the boom from the cockpit.

I made a drawing. fyi

cheers

[Steve Laume]

I have set up the topping lift, on Raven,exactly like Fred shows it There are a couple of differences but they are more in materials. I used a thin Amsteel line for the fixed portion. The stuff is much stronger that other line so it can be smaller and it is very easy to splice. Cape Dory liked the cleat at the aft end of the boom. This made it very hard to deal with in a number of situations. I also moved mine to the forward end but have a traditional cleat and a few little eyes to keep things in place along the boom.

This is the best arrangement you can get as far as rigging a topping lift I have stood on the end of the boom with no worries. It can be adjusted no matter where the boom is. It gives you a slight mechanical advantage and it looks tidy. You really don't want to tie off the topping lift to keep it from slapping as it is under load when the boat is put away.


I had one slight incident with this arrangement. I would get a hum inside the boat when at anchor under certain wind conditions. Not when it was blowing hard but just at random times. It was driving me crazy. It was loud in the boat but when I went on deck it was hardly noticeable and hard to find. I finally put my hand on the fixed Amsteel line and it stopped. I now have a few strands of short line tied onto it with the ends frayed. I got the idea from bow string silencers and it works.

I am not exactly sure why but those boom kickers, don't seem right to me, Steve.

[Joe Myerson]

Thanks, everybody, for the feedback.

After finding that my septuagenarian mooring neighbors were reluctant to hoist this septuagenarian up his own mast, I brought Creme Brulee to Parker's Boat Yard, where they'll use the man-lift to re-rig my topping lift. It's certainly not the cheapest way to go, but it's probably the safest.

As for Fred's and Steve's suggestions: I think I'll adopt a hybrid approach, installing some kind of arrangement that will let me adjust the boom from either the mast or the end of the spar. Now, I'm just waiting a call from the yard so I can scurry back to my mooring and batten down for the tropical storm that's on its way.

Stay safe, everybody!

--Joe

[John Stone]

I agree with Fred and Steve the drawing is a great way to rig a topping lift.

That’s not how mine is rigged though. I have internal halyards so the topping lift runs over two sheeves that are mounted on an extended aft part of the mast head then down inside the mast and exits like the rest of the internal halyards. The advantage is it can serve as a back up main halyard. But that’s the only advantage. There is a lot to be said for external halyards.... Keep it simple whenever you can.

[Terry]

Joe ... I thought something like that might be the case.

I don't see why you couldn't modify to be like I have on my 27:
I made a drawing. fyi

cheers

I like the way you ran the lift line forward. Cassandra, a 25, is like your original configuration. When I replace the running rigging, I'll probably do the same as you've done

All the best. . .

[Tod Mills]

Here is Roger Olson's (former school teacher, former owner of the Sam L. Morse Co. and experienced cruiser) views on topping lifts and lazyjacks, from his voluminous book "Plot Your Course To Adventure: How To Be A Successful Cruiser". (an interesting and worthwhile book, imo)

Apologies, but the pics are in reverse order, read the bottom one first.

[Tod Mills]

....continued from previous post. These should be in order.