Staying dry on a Typhoon?

[Ben Miller]

Here's the track from one of our recent daysails:

2020-03-27 Track.jpg

This is off-topic, but that's a very cool map/track record. How'd you put it together?

[Steve Laume]

If hunting and fishing are still allowed, then get a valid fishing license and keep a rod and some tackle on board. While this may be bending the rules, it should keep you from getting a fine. Just don't do anything stupid as far as contact with other people is concerned. This is serious and should be taken that way. Hunting and fishing always seem to get extra liberties.

Be safe, Steve.

[wikakaru]

This is off-topic, but that's a very cool map/track record. How'd you put it together?

We can start a new topic if we go too far out on this tangent, but I will answer here for now. I have been putting these tracks in my sailing logbook for years. I use an Android app called GPX Logger to record my track when I sail. When I get home I upload the track into OpenCPN. Then I just do a screen print from OpenCPN and save it to a .jpg file.

I used to add the hourly position triangles by hand in OpenCPN, but it got tiring doing that every day, so I wrote a little VBScript to automate the process. It reads the .GPX file created by GPX Logger and creates a file of waypoints at whatever intervals I specify. As long as I was automating, it was easy to add breadcrumbs (the little circles) so I could visually see how fast I was going. I usually have the breadcrumbs set for every 5 minutes and the electronic fix (triangle) symbols hourly.

Smooth sailing,

Jim

[wikakaru]

If hunting and fishing are still allowed, then get a valid fishing license and keep a rod and some tackle on board. While this may be bending the rules, it should keep you from getting a fine. Just don't do anything stupid as far as contact with other people is concerned. This is serious and should be taken that way. Hunting and fishing always seem to get extra liberties.

That's a good idea to stay within the list of activities, though it would require going somewhere to buy a fishing license, which is a potentially risky business. I figure since the wording of the executive order says "such as walking, biking, hiking, fishing, hunting, running, or swimming" instead of "limited to walking, biking, hiking, fishing, hunting, running, or swimming" then it is a list of examples of the kinds of activities allowed rather than an exclusive list, and sailing should be fine. If you don't hear from me by tomorrow then you will know I've been arrested and thrown into a 9x12 jail cell in close proximity with a bunch of other inmates "for my own safety" instead of just being allowed to go sailing.

I will definitely avoid contact. The nice thing about the setup at our marina is that there is no clubhouse, gate, door, or anything else we have to go through to go sailing. I can walk right from my hermetically sealed car down the dock to my boat without touching anything or coming in contact with anyone. Here in Florida most of the boats in the marinas are unused most of the time, so we only occasionally see other people in the best of times, and we are never closer than the range of the "27-foot sneeze" study I saw on the news last night. Driving to the marina and going sailing is much safer than taking a walk outdoors in our neighborhood, and WAY safer than going to the grocery store.

[wikakaru]

If you do decide to trade up, consider the CD 25 (not to be confused with the CD 25D). It is a lovely boat that sails beautifully, but doesn't get a lot of attention on this forum possibly because it is not an Alberg design. I sailed a Typhoon in Buzzards Bay for several years and enjoyed it, but I have to say that I like my 25 even more. She is stable in a chop, relatively dry, and still handles like a daysailer. But, you always have the option of spending a night on board if you want. A real bonus, at least for me, is that the motor sits in a well and does not interfere with the beauty of the boat. CD 25s are plentiful and affordable. You can probably get one for less than it would cost to buy a Typhoon.

Thanks for the suggestion. I like the CD25, but at 4,000 lbs., it may be too big for me. Our car has a towing capacity of 5,000 lbs., and the weight of the boat plus trailer would probably put us up over that limit. I suppose we could always rent a truck to haul/launch each year. Hmmm....

I see that the 25 has a rounded rudder like my Typhoon does. One of the things I noticed about our CD22 is that the rudder sort of "hangs" or "drags" in the water when turning abruptly (like when tacking), and I suspect this may be due to the sharp corner at the bottom aft tip of the CD22's rudder. I would love to sail on a CD25 and see what the helm feels like.

[Ben Miller]

This is off-topic, but that's a very cool map/track record. How'd you put it together?

We can start a new topic if we go too far out on this tangent, but I will answer here for now. I have been putting these tracks in my sailing logbook for years. I use an Android app called GPX Logger to record my track when I sail. When I get home I upload the track into OpenCPN. Then I just do a screen print from OpenCPN and save it to a .jpg file.

I used to add the hourly position triangles by hand in OpenCPN, but it got tiring doing that every day, so I wrote a little VBScript to automate the process. It reads the .GPX file created by GPX Logger and creates a file of waypoints at whatever intervals I specify. As long as I was automating, it was easy to add breadcrumbs (the little circles) so I could visually see how fast I was going. I usually have the breadcrumbs set for every 5 minutes and the electronic fix (triangle) symbols hourly.

Smooth sailing,

Jim

Impressive. Thanks for the detail!

[casampson]

I wouldn't trailer a CD 25, although some do, which points out the main problem with buying a bigger boat: you become dependent upon a boatyard. My Typhoon was on a nice Triad trailer, and it cost me nothing to launch and haul each year. Storage in my driveway was free also. Now I pay $450 to have the local boatyard to haul my boat each way and step or unstep my mast. That's $900 per year that I didn't have to spend on my Typhoon. I still store my boat in my yard, which saves me another $900 or so, but I may not do that in the future. And with a Typhoon you can haul any time you want, which I imagine is important in Florida where there is the threat of hurricanes every season.

But, even though it has doubled my annual boating costs, I would still make the upgrade from a Typhoon to a larger boat. It's worth the money.

[wikakaru]

I wouldn't trailer a CD 25, although some do, which points out the main problem with buying a bigger boat: you become dependent upon a boatyard. My Typhoon was on a nice Triad trailer, and it cost me nothing to launch and haul each year. Storage in my driveway was free also. Now I pay $450 to have the local boatyard to haul my boat each way and step or unstep my mast. That's $900 per year that I didn't have to spend on my Typhoon. I still store my boat in my yard, which saves me another $900 or so, but I may not do that in the future. And with a Typhoon you can haul any time you want, which I imagine is important in Florida where there is the threat of hurricanes every season.

But, even though it has doubled my annual boating costs, I would still make the upgrade from a Typhoon to a larger boat. It's worth the money.

Saving money and avoiding annual recurring fees is important to me. With the Typhoon my wife and I can do everything ourselves and not have to pay a professional. I like that it is simple--no electrical system, no fresh water system, no head, no holding tank, no systems period. Like I said in the first post, absolutely perfect for me, if I could only stay dry!

I did notice that the CD22 and CD25 both have the same draft of 3.0 feet, so they are probably equally as easy (or difficult) to launch at a ramp. except for the weight and the size towing vehicle needed.

[MHBsailor]

This thread sure got off-topic lol. As to the first question, my Typhoon Senior (basically a stripped-down CD22) usually sails pretty dry unless I hit a wave just right when it's breezy, then their is some spray from the port or starboard bow area. I can see why some CD22 owners install a dodger that sail on Buzzard's Bay. As to trailering, it's easier to tow a 3200 lb CD22 or a 3300 lb TY Senior on a Triad Trailer than a bigger boat, as the load is close to or at the trailer's 5500 lb GVW. A trailer extension helps with launching from a boat ramp.

[fmueller]

I’m pretty impressed with how dry my 27 seems to me most active days. I’m more likely to pull on the slicker for rain it seems to me than for sea spray. I do have a pretty large dodger though, thanks to a previous owner. I often wonder what the windward speed penalty is, but it’s darn effective for the sheltering it provides

I actually remember my Dads SW 42 being wetter, which makes no sense, except in a fresh breeze, the chop would often crest right forward of the cockpit on that much larger hull, and that’s what would do the soaking, not the bow slam. With Jerezana in a fresh breeze, the chop at the bow breaks over the foredeck with very little making it back over or around the dodger, while the previous crest at that point is generally sliding aft of the cockpit. Also just generally speaking, the Alberg Cape Dorys don’t have proportionally low topsides, especially the smaller hulls, and we almost always heel right over to 15-20 degrees right away ... so there is a pretty good ”shoulder“ being presented to the mess to windward.

That’s the way it seems to me ... or maybe I just don’t mind being a drowned rat !

Cheers. Fred

Edit: I did some reading on wave length vs wind speed ... turns out a 12 knot breeze produces a 25-30 foot wave length with about a 2 foot significant height. This makes perfect sense. Little Jerezana just deals with one crest at a time.

[wikakaru]

I did some reading on wave length vs wind speed ... turns out a 12 knot breeze produces a 25-30 foot wave length with about a 2 foot significant height. This makes perfect sense. Little Jerezana just deals with one crest at a time.

I can only wish for 2 foot high 25-30 foot long waves. I don't think those would be a problem for our Typhoon. I think you will find those formulas for wave length and wind speed are for deep water and unlimited fetch (i.e. open ocean).

I timed the wave period on the bay a few days ago when I was out sailing. It was below 1 second, I'm guessing about 0.7 seconds. The wavelength of this chop is on the order of about 4 feet (see the photo I posted earlier with the yellow lines at the wave crests). Although they are not very high, 1-2 foot waves at such a short period and short wavelength are quite steep, and it is these steep waves smashing into the hull that makes sailing the Typhoon such a wet experience. If you don't have this phenomenon where you sail, think about a parade of fast-moving powerboats passing just a boatlength away right at your bow once every second while throwing a steep wake at you--that's what the bay chop is like.

(Of course, we also do have powerboats on the bay--lots of them on the weekends--and sometimes even on calm days it is like a washing machine out there. But that's a topic for another thread...)

[wikakaru]

After contending with quite a few days of strong seabreeze over the past few weeks, I found a technique for sailing the Typhoon that keeps us, if not dry, at least dryer when sailing upwind in a breeze over 12-13 knots. It incorporates some of the suggestions from Ben and Michael:

My suggestion to choose a different point of sail was kind of serious. That's not always an option, of course, but if you can fall off even ten degrees so you're not pounding right into the waves, it might make enough of a difference to satisfy the Admiral.

Ben's suggestion lessens the spray a bit, but isn't enough by itself--the bigger waves still make it really wet in the cockpit.

You can also minimize some of the spray by adjusting your attack angle for each swell. This takes practice and close attention!

Michael's suggestion also doesn't work by itself in the short-wavelength steep chop we have when we are close-hauled, but if we start on a close reach, then there is enough time to react and bear off further when the big ones come.

With that in mind, here's the technique for semi-dry upwind Typhoon sailing in a strong breeze: Sail on a close reach, about 75 degrees off the true wind, while constantly scanning the waves upwind. As the bigger waves come, bear off onto a beam reach or lower as necessary, then head back to a close reach when the larger set of waves pass.

It took a bit of experience to figure out what size and shape waves I needed to bear off for, and sometimes I still get it wrong and get a dollop back in the cockpit, but instead of getting 10-20 splashes into the cockpit per minute as I was getting, I have reduced it to one splash every minute or two. The foredeck still gets soaked, but not so much the cockpit.

I can make a VMG upwind of about 1.4 knots this way (boat speed is 5 knots or more). 1.4 knots of VMG isn't great, but at least we are making some progress upwind.

Here's the track of yesterday's sail in 15-20 knots of breeze that shows the close-reaching tacks across the bay with the really lousy tacking angles, then as we get up into the lee of the land on the west side of the bay and the waves lay down, we head up to close-hauled with proper tacking angles, until we peek out from behind the point and the wind and waves get up again and we have to bear off to a close reach again. Of course, the ride downwind in 15-20 knots of breeze, surfing down the bigger waves at 5.8 knots is pure bliss.

Like I said, we're not dry going upwind, but we're dryer; the Admiral isn't happy, but she's happier. I think this is the best I can do for now.

Smooth sailing,

Jim

2020-05-05 Daysail Dory Pensacola.jpg

[mgphl52]

Actually, it sounds to me like you are learning how to "adjust your angle of attack" and "pay close attention" along with lots of practice!

[radsailor]

When it's too warm for foul weather gear, the spray is great for cooling off. I admit, I enjoyed it more as a youngster, but still, cheap outdoor a/c.