Staying dry on a Typhoon?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
- wikakaru
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Jan 13th, '18, 16:19
- Location: 1980 Typhoon #1697 "Dory"; 1981 CD22 #41 "Arietta"
Staying dry on a Typhoon?
My Typhoon is the perfect boat for me in every way but one: it is gets pretty wet in anything over about 12 knots of breeze when sailing upwind in areas of open fetch. My wife and I normally wear lightweight waterproof windbreakers (and sometimes rain pants) to stay dry, but we still get pretty wet. We do have full offshore foul weather gear, but when it is in the mid-80s as it has been for the past week here in Florida, we would die of heat stroke if we tried to use it. The sea breeze kicks up to 15-20 knots in the afternoons, so it is difficult to find a time to sail with less than 12 knots of breeze.
In my travels I have seen only one Typhoon fitted with a dodger, but it looked strange on the boat and it also looked like it would greatly interfere with sailing and visibility.
Is there some magic trick to staying dry in a Typhoon that I'm unaware of? Or does everybody just get wet when the breeze gets up?
In my travels I have seen only one Typhoon fitted with a dodger, but it looked strange on the boat and it also looked like it would greatly interfere with sailing and visibility.
Is there some magic trick to staying dry in a Typhoon that I'm unaware of? Or does everybody just get wet when the breeze gets up?
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- Steve Laume
- Posts: 4127
- Joined: Feb 13th, '05, 20:40
- Location: Raven1984 Cape Dory 30C Hull #309Noank, CT
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Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
When I was sailing my Typhoon, I can often remember thinking if it was just 10' longer, most of that spray would not reach the cockpit. I now sail a CD-30 and realize that 10' is not quite enough in all situations but it does help. Short of buying a longer boat, I am not sure that there is a good way to stay out of the spray. At least you are in Fla. As much as I love my dodger, I don't believe it would be a practical solution for a Typhoon. Only sailing down wind would help as well but..
Still much drier than a lot of boats that size, Steve.
Still much drier than a lot of boats that size, Steve.
Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
Yes, I think this is one of those 'live with it' situations. I can't see a dodger providing much blockage as it would be rather small and often you are sitting outboard.
Once on our old Typhoon, beating into a cold fresh breeze on northern Lake Superior in May, one of my wilderness trail guide staff members, who was the hardest core wilderness man I ever knew (shot a polar bear breaking into their shack on Hudson Bay.) said to me, "I could see this being the type of thing you say is fun...the next day." My stock rose somewhat that day.
Once on our old Typhoon, beating into a cold fresh breeze on northern Lake Superior in May, one of my wilderness trail guide staff members, who was the hardest core wilderness man I ever knew (shot a polar bear breaking into their shack on Hudson Bay.) said to me, "I could see this being the type of thing you say is fun...the next day." My stock rose somewhat that day.
Paul
CDSOA Member
CDSOA Member
Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
When the wind pipes over 12~15, try taking a reef in your main and see if that helps. I sailed my first Typhoon on the St Johns River (many years ago) and often sailed with the first reef in the main but combined with a 150 genoa.
You can also minimize some of the spray by adjusting your attack angle for each swell. This takes practice and close attention!
You can also minimize some of the spray by adjusting your attack angle for each swell. This takes practice and close attention!
-michael & Toni CDSOA #789
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
- wikakaru
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Jan 13th, '18, 16:19
- Location: 1980 Typhoon #1697 "Dory"; 1981 CD22 #41 "Arietta"
Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
Thanks for the tips. Unfortunately, the bay where I sail has a 5-mile fetch with the prevailing sea breeze. Long-period ocean swells don't develop, but there is quite a short, steep chop when it's blowing 15-20 knots. The wavelength of the chop is so short that it isn't possible to use the classic technique of luffing up into each wave and bearing off down the back of the wave. We might have 3 or 4 wave crests along the Typhoon's 14-foot waterline.mgphl52 wrote:When the wind pipes over 12~15, try taking a reef in your main and see if that helps. I sailed my first Typhoon on the St Johns River (many years ago) and often sailed with the first reef in the main but combined with a 150 genoa.
You can also minimize some of the spray by adjusting your attack angle for each swell. This takes practice and close attention!
Here is a photo I took a week ago as we were motoring into the chop to raise the sails. I have marked the wave crests with yellow lines, and you can see how close together they are. I would have to be pumping the tiller 3-4 times a second and making such radical course changes that I suspect we would be stopped dead in the water if I tried to change course with each wave.
I regularly sail with a 100% jib, and if the wind is getting up near 15 knots I will also have a reef in the main. Unfortunately, that doesn't make the boat any less wet, it just means that I don't have to keep the mainsail eased.
But please keep the good ideas coming...
Jim
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- wikakaru
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Jan 13th, '18, 16:19
- Location: 1980 Typhoon #1697 "Dory"; 1981 CD22 #41 "Arietta"
Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
I have actually considered a longer boat (and, in fact, I have one--a Cape Dory 22 that I keep in Maine). I have to say that my CD22 is much drier than my Typhoon. I think it is the extra freeboard that keeps it dry more than the extra boat length. Even the foredeck of the CD22 is much drier than the foredeck of the Typhoon under similar conditions.Steve Laume wrote:When I was sailing my Typhoon, I can often remember thinking if it was just 10' longer, most of that spray would not reach the cockpit. I now sail a CD-30 and realize that 10' is not quite enough in all situations but it does help. Short of buying a longer boat, I am not sure that there is a good way to stay out of the spray. At least you are in Fla. As much as I love my dodger, I don't believe it would be a practical solution for a Typhoon. Only sailing down wind would help as well but..
Still much drier than a lot of boats that size, Steve.
I have entertained the thought of having two CD22s instead of the 22 and the Typhoon, but the Typhoon's nice helm balance, its ability to tack quickly, and the ability to control the jib sheets by hand without using the winches makes it such a sweet boat to sail. The 22's helm is not quite as smooth, and we always have to use the winches to get that last inch or two of tension on the jib, especially in a breeze. Before I bought the 22 I never would have thought that two Alberg designs that look so similar would sail so differently.
I really don't want to give up my Typhoon, but I would also like to be dry when I sail her!
Thanks for the reply!
Jim
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- Posts: 254
- Joined: Apr 2nd, '15, 15:39
- Location: Typhoon Weekender #1511 - Grand Traverse Bay
Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
Wear clothes that dry quickly? If it's in the 80s, catching some spray wouldn't really bother me much. A windbreaker on your upper body sounds like a good idea, and then synthetic shorts/pants will dry off pretty quickly if they get wet. If you're getting soaked, then maybe think about choosing a different point of sail.wikakaru wrote:Is there some magic trick to staying dry in a Typhoon that I'm unaware of?
- wikakaru
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Jan 13th, '18, 16:19
- Location: 1980 Typhoon #1697 "Dory"; 1981 CD22 #41 "Arietta"
Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
Maybe what I need to change is my mindset. I think of the Typhoon in the way it was once advertised, as "America's littlest yacht"--a proper keelboat. Here is part of an ad from the 1975 Cruising World Sailboat Show Annual Edition: https://books.google.com/books?id=EZ00_ ... et&f=falseBen Miller wrote:Wear clothes that dry quickly? If it's in the 80s, catching some spray wouldn't really bother me much. A windbreaker on your upper body sounds like a good idea, and then synthetic shorts/pants will dry off pretty quickly if they get wet. If you're getting soaked, then maybe think about choosing a different point of sail.
Marketing guys. Sheesh."Her sea-kindly underbody with 900 pounds of molded internal lead ballast offers safety, stability, and maneuverability even in extreme weather conditions."
I guess I need to start thinking of my Typhoon as a wet-and-wooly, spray-in-your-face dinghy. The problem is, the Admiral always sits ahead of me in the cockpit, and she bears the worst of the spray. (She actually makes a pretty good dodger.) While I may be able to change my thinking, I'm pretty sure I can't change hers.
Jim
Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
so did you sail out of Amity Anchorage? I know Barbara sold a lot of Cape Dorys back in the day. Many are still docked in the area but the Florida sun has beaten them up pretty goodmgphl52 wrote:I sailed my first Typhoon on the St Johns River (many years ago) and often sailed with the first reef in the main but combined with a 150 genoa.
Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
Yes I did! I rented a Typhoon a couple of times from Barbara and then bought my first one from her. I kept it at Amity for a while but then moved Snow Goose to Graham's Boat yard on the Ortega River. I can't remember how long ago I was last there but Barbara was still around and had turned her home into the Amity Yacht Club or some such. Lots of great memories from sailing on both sides of the Buckman Bridge!gonesail wrote:so did you sail out of Amity Anchorage? I know Barbara sold a lot of Cape Dorys back in the day. Many are still docked in the area but the Florida sun has beaten them up pretty good
-michael & Toni CDSOA #789
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
"Just because it worked, doesn't mean it works." -me
No shirt + No shorts = No problem!
-
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Apr 2nd, '15, 15:39
- Location: Typhoon Weekender #1511 - Grand Traverse Bay
Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
Ha! Notice they don't mention "shelter." My experience is that going upwind in a Typhoon in a decent wind and some waves means you're going to catch the occasional splash. My suggestion to choose a different point of sail was kind of serious. That's not always an option, of course, but if you can fall off even ten degrees so you're not pounding right into the waves, it might make enough of a difference to satisfy the Admiral.wikakaru wrote: Maybe what I need to change is my mindset. I think of the Typhoon in the way it was once advertised, as "America's littlest yacht"--a proper keelboat. Here is part of an ad from the 1975 Cruising World Sailboat Show Annual Edition: https://books.google.com/books?id=EZ00_ ... et&f=false
Marketing guys. Sheesh."Her sea-kindly underbody with 900 pounds of molded internal lead ballast offers safety, stability, and maneuverability even in extreme weather conditions."
- wikakaru
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Jan 13th, '18, 16:19
- Location: 1980 Typhoon #1697 "Dory"; 1981 CD22 #41 "Arietta"
Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
I actually try to do that. Here's the track from one of our recent daysails: The wind was kickin' when we left, so we sailed on a beam reach from Bayou Chico over to Old Navy Cove, then once we got in the lee of Fair point we did a little upwind work and hove-to for lunch. Fortunately while we ate lunch the wind dropped and we were able to sail upwind dryly. This day was non-typical in that the wind was dropping during the afternoon instead of building, so we were able to do some upwind sailing.Ben Miller wrote: My suggestion to choose a different point of sail was kind of serious. That's not always an option, of course, but if you can fall off even ten degrees so you're not pounding right into the waves, it might make enough of a difference to satisfy the Admiral.
I have found that anything closer to the wind than a beam reach is still pretty wet on the Typhoon. I also find that I get bored of sailing back and forth on a beam reach over the same 2-mile stretch of water between Bayou Chico and Old Navy Cove. And we still get wet motoring upwind out the channel into the chop until we can get onto the beam reach. The Admiral really doesn't like that part. She sort of expects to get wet sailing, but not before we've even got the sails up!
Sometimes the wind is lighter in the morning, and on those days I try to get to the boat early, do all the upwind sailing before the breeze builds, then have a romping sail downwind in 15+ knots of breeze, surfing at 6 knots on the biggest waves. Those are the best sailing days--I love it when it's like that! But the weather pattern has been kind of funky lately (climate change?), and the breeze has been building before 0900 and staying breezy until 1700 or 1800. This set of observations from a nearby Weather Underground station illustrates how things have been going lately: It's hard to get out on the water early enough to beat this kind of weather pattern.
I've been sailing on Pensacola Bay for 16 years, the last 4 of which were on the Typhoon, and I've never had as much trouble as this year. Usually the early-bird method worked pretty well in the past. But this year's long, early spell of hot weather has meant that the usual tricks haven't worked. Yesterday the month-long run of unseasonably hot weather finally broke and we returned to near-normal temperatures for this time of year--lows in the 50s, highs in the 70s. This is the Goldilocks time to sail in Pensacola. Maybe things will return to normal...
Thanks to all for the suggestions. I was hoping for some kind of "magic bullet" that I hadn't thought of, but it sounds like I am doing about everything I can do except for trading up to a bigger boat...
Smooth sailing,
Jim
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- wikakaru
- Posts: 839
- Joined: Jan 13th, '18, 16:19
- Location: 1980 Typhoon #1697 "Dory"; 1981 CD22 #41 "Arietta"
Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
Of course all of this may be moot now, because I may not be able to sail any more...Florida has issued a stay-at-home order beginning midnight tonight.
The order does list the following exceptions under "essential activites", though:
The order does list the following exceptions under "essential activites", though:
If hunting and fishing count as recreation, perhaps sailing does. It is certainly consistent with social distancing--we never get as close as 6 feet to anyone at our marina. Hmmm, we'll see...Participating in recreational activities (consistent with social distancing guidelines) such as walking, biking, hiking, fishing, hunting, running, or swimming;
Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
If you do decide to trade up, consider the CD 25 (not to be confused with the CD 25D). It is a lovely boat that sails beautifully, but doesn't get a lot of attention on this forum possibly because it is not an Alberg design. I sailed a Typhoon in Buzzards Bay for several years and enjoyed it, but I have to say that I like my 25 even more. She is stable in a chop, relatively dry, and still handles like a daysailer. But, you always have the option of spending a night on board if you want. A real bonus, at least for me, is that the motor sits in a well and does not interfere with the beauty of the boat. CD 25s are plentiful and affordable. You can probably get one for less than it would cost to buy a Typhoon.
- tjr818
- Posts: 1851
- Joined: Oct 13th, '07, 13:42
- Location: Previously owned 1980 CD 27 Slainte, Hull #185. NO.1257949
Re: Staying dry on a Typhoon?
When we bought our 27 the surveyor, a crusty old Nave Captain (four striper), who has surveyed dozens of Cape Dorys, remarked that the best of the lot was the 25.casampson wrote:If you do decide to trade up, consider the CD 25 (not to be confused with the CD 25D). It is a lovely boat that sails beautifully, but doesn't get a lot of attention on this forum possibly because it is not an Alberg design. I sailed a Typhoon in Buzzards Bay for several years and enjoyed it, but I have to say that I like my 25 even more. She is stable in a chop, relatively dry, and still handles like a daysailer. But, you always have the option of spending a night on board if you want. A real bonus, at least for me, is that the motor sits in a well and does not interfere with the beauty of the boat. CD 25s are plentiful and affordable. You can probably get one for less than it would cost to buy a Typhoon.
Tim
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27
Nonsuch 26 Ultra,
Previously, Sláinte a CD27