S/V Ethan Grey - water in the bilge

[S/V Ethan Grey]

I posted this on Facebook, but I thought I would post it here as well.
Since I bought the boat, I've always found water in the bilge. I originally thought that I may have a leak or two up top, but then I started to notice that I had water whether it rained or didn't. I also noticed that it was worse after I would go motoring about for an hour or so. It didn't take on water while we were out, but when I stopped by the boat the next day, the bilge would be 1/3 full and sometimes more. It got progressively worse, probably because i was motoring more than sailing (I was making sure the motor was reliable before sailing about). I started looking at the stuffing box and fiddled around with the packing nut and lock nut. Once I got those adjusted, I could see that I still had a small, constant trickle running down the back of the bilge. I tried tightening the two rear clamps on the stuffing box/prop shaft tube but that didn't seem to lessen the flow. Then I added a 3rd clamp, and positioned it so that the turn screw wasn't inline with the other two. That didn't seem to lessen the flow either and it may now be slightly worse. My fear is that the fiberglass tube where the Morse Cutlass bearing (blackfish) is located is cracked or worse that the fiberglass around the prop shaft has been augered out. It seems like I have a couple of choices. I think the first thing that I'll do is get a cheap boroscope from Harbor Freight and try to get an eye on the leak. The next is to haul the boat and get it fixed. I'll replace the cutlass bearing while I'm at it and get the bottom painted.
https://www.facebook.com/10002662386675 ... 279143730/

[S/V Ethan Grey]

Reading through some posts on the forum and just wondering if I understand this correctly.
Is the fiberglass tube that holds the blackfish cutlass bearing glassed in or is there just some sort of putty/goop pressed around it to keep the water out?

from the forum:
Cape dory liked to just goop mish mash all around the shaft log. I had to chisel some out to get at the hose clamps and then filled any areas that needed it with epoxy and glass fibers.
(http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... sh#p125270)

Some form of putty that had very little structural integrity left in it was packed around a fiber glass stern tube where it passes through the hull. There was a coating of something resembling epoxy or a thickened resin of some description that bonded the putty to the hull.
The tube itself was not bonded directly in any way to the hull itself and no glass reinforcement was evident. The skin of epoxy or whatever that bonded the putty to the hull, broke in more or less the same place that the crack is showing on your boat .
(http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... sh#p138228)

The "wall" back behind my tube is blue and soft and it looked like it was wet. I assumed that it was water running out from the stuffing box, but perhaps the putty/goop has failed and it is coming in through the outer hull? So confused.

Thanks!

[Frenchy]

Hi Ethan - good luck in tracking this down. I think a good start would be to put two
high quality hose clamps on each end of the stuffing box hose. That hose is pretty thick
and doesn't compress easily.
If the stuffing box isn't leaking and the hose is dry, then haul out, as you suggested.
The fiberglass shaft log should be glassed to the hull, in my opinion. If you had a bronze
shaft log, it would be bolted and bedded in sealant. You will have to remove the prop
shaft, separating the drive flange from the prop shaft (not so easy). Some just cut
the shaft and have a new one made - probably about $500 or so.
You'll also have to remove the prop to get the shaft past the rudder. It sounds like a
lot of work but it's not that bad when you take it one step at a time. Good luck - Jean

[JD-MDR]

I had big problems locating the leak on " Leoma". We just guessed it was the shaft log. You can read about it in my post http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... og#p196069. "Leoma Launch Failure."
I adjusted my stuffing box last weekend. I'm so glad we extended the tube. I can reach it easily . I use one of these plumbing tools for tightening sink drains

[S/V Ethan Grey]

It looks like I have the same problem as described here: http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... og#p196069
I bought a cheap boroscope from Harbor Freight and had a look at the back of the propeller shaft tube. It appears rather than glassing in the aft section, Cape Dory put a layer of blue goop back there. Perhaps this was encased in glass at one time, but it isn't any longer. Here are a few photos from the boroscope (not the best quality). The propeller shaft tube looks dry so I'm assuming that water is penetrating from the exterior of the cutlass bearing/tube area into the inside of the boat. The blue goop looks completely saturated. It looks like the fix is going to be a haul out, removal of the engine & propeller shaft, replacing the cutlass bearing and glassing in the entire aft section where the fiberglass tube is.

[S/V Ethan Grey]

We’ll, here’s my update (also on the Cape Dory Fans Facebook page). This is all speculation, but I think I figured it out. It looks like the deadwood area where the shaft log exits on my CD30 had been cutaway to allow for a Max Prop and anode. This may have resulted in the holes for the set screws that capture the Blackfish (cutless bearing) to be re-drilled.

A2923BB1-BA4D-4581-B4EA-17FA7E747364.jpeg (161.53 KiB) Viewed 577 times

The way it should look

B832C6D9-E9B7-4E84-9D36-46BFBFDB6D19.jpeg (383.09 KiB) Viewed 577 times

Where the holes for the set screws were drilled, there is a void between the hull of the boat and the shaft log. Usually, this area is filled with some blue filler and possibly a thin glassing over to make it look nice. Over the years, the blue filler and any cover fiberglass, if there was any, has deteriorated. What I was left with was a blue mush at the bottom of the bilge area under the stern tube. This has allowed the area to leak and it has gotten progressively worse.

779455A4-260E-4B9D-9A0F-9B4A1EA80F6C.jpeg (2.59 MiB) Viewed 577 times

To fix it, I need to cutout the shaft log and deadwood area and have it re-glassed and the exit aperture built back up. However, to do that, I need a new propeller that fits in the rudder aperture. Unfortunately, propellers are 6-8 weeks back ordered. So, I’m left with a temporary remedy. My thought is that I will install the blackfish and then inject 3M 4200 in the holes, hoping to fill in the area with adhesive sealant. I will then install the set screws. I may put additional 4200 over the set screws. I don’t think water is getting in anywhere else, but I guess I’ll find out at launch.

I am also changing out the stuffing box hose and packing material. I’m not at a marina where it is economical to leave the boat on the hard while I wait 8 weeks for a prop, so I don’t have a lot of choices. I may also attempt to fill the void from the inside using Marine-Tex. But the Marine-Tex may make a repair more difficult and might not even seal the area. 4200 in the set screw holes seems like the best approach right now. Thoughts?

If anyone else is having leaks around their shaft log, you may want to see where your set screws are located.

Any thoughts?

[John Stone]

I’ve been reluctant to offer any ideas on this because I don’t know much about about your boat. But, I keep lookin over the pictures and the symptoms you describe.

Is that a V drive?

It sure looks like the deadwood was cut back to accommodate a zinc for the folding propeller. That was a horrible foolish modification which says something coming from someone who seriously modified his own boat.

I can’t say exactly why I say this but without seeing it in person I am skeptical the stern tube is cracked.

You are going to have serious challenges working on the inside portion of the hull around the stern tube in that tiny space. Doesn’t mean it can’t be done but I would only do that as secondary to working on a primary repair on the outside.

If you want to replace the stern tube fine. I’d consider G10 though fiberglassing is certainly appropriate. If you don’t want to replace the tube then I’d grind back around the outside right up to the tube (really scallop it back) with a good bevel. And apply 6-8 layers of 1708 biaxial and epoxy. Done correctly (not a particularly difficult job) it’s going to be stronger than new and it will not leak barring some hidden issue with the stern tube. Download Gugeon Brothers free West Systems Fiberglass Repair Manual. It’s a great resource. Also, call the tech line for some advice. In the past they were very helpful to me.

I would not let this intimidate you. It’s totally repairable. I would think it will take a couple weeks to complete the repair (grinding, applying biaxial, fairing etc. Could be done in a week if you know what your doing, have everything, and the weather cooperates.