CD30 Bowsprit

[JD-MDR]

Hi Kicken Bear,, I didn't have so much problem getting it off. I just used my skill saw and cut wedges out of 2 x 4's. I put them all the way around about 5" apart and just kept going around pounding them in till it broke free. I don't know what they used 40 years ago . I think 5200 is good below the water line and now we use 4200 0r some other type above. I thought the project was actually pretty simple . I was nervous at first but it went well.

[John Stone]

Catching up on the thread still. Going to go through the tools recommendations. Still trying to figure out the easiest way to make some oak shims. I stopped by the hardware store and picked up the metal punches and snagged some plastic shims (being the only thing I could find on my way out to the boat)

The good news is that the punches helped me get all 10 bolts out. Also, the small flex saw I have worked ok to get started cutting out the adhesive

The bad news is I only had one 12” blade and I bent the hell out of it (and eventually broke it). I’m scratching up the gel coat within 1” of the bowsprit but at a point I really don’t give a crap lol. Will figure out how to clean that up as a temporary once the bowsprit is off. Going to bring a few packs of 18TPI hack saw blades next round, and a more durable specifically purpose made flex saw of some sort

The plastic shims were a joke of course, as I knew they would be, but they only cost my me $2 so no biggie. Better to have tried

I ended up using the putty knife for ~2hrs, being my only option at this point, using muscle to force it up under to try and sever the bowsprit and adhesive. I made progress at least by freeing up the back 5-6” of the bow sprit and was able to work the putty knife ~1-2” in on all sides up to the bow toe tail. I think there’s enough room to get a shim under there now, so I’ll call that progress

The adhesive is still very pliable so thinking its not 5200; I thought 5200 goes totally solid but maybe I have that wrong (?). This job is still the suck though haha my arms are super sore today; great way to get a workout (way better than static lifting lol)

Going to check out the links you all posted. Thank you; keep em coming!

Edit / update - Re: the multitool idea; I need one. will a lithium battery powered multi tool work? I’m trying to move away from corded stuff so that I can take my tools with me in 5-6yrs (part of the “plan” to voyaging once the kids move out; will be a different boat though)

There are some tools that work better corded especially when endurance is essential. You’ll probably have an inverter on your boat so I would not worry too much. Plus many boats today carry small Honda generators and you can always borrow one for a big project. I have a few battery powered tools—two drills. But I carry with me when voyaging a number of corded tools: DA Sanders x 2, a 4.5” high speed grinder, a corded drill, etc. I also carry a bunch of hand tools from block planes to spoke shaves to a draw knife to several hand saws, and even an egg beater drill. I think this is a project for corded tools or a hand tool. JD is right though. You can cut those wedges easily with a circle saw or a good hand saw. Just clean up the teeth marks with a block plane or a power sander.

[Kickin Bears]

I definitely need to make the wedges. Right tools for the job will make all the difference I’m sure

How long were your wedges? I have plenty of 2x4 on hand

[JD-MDR]

I definitely need to make the wedges. Right tools for the job will make all the difference I’m sure

How long were your wedges? I have plenty of 2x4 on hand

about 8". I was a framing carpenter so it was no big thing for me to use a skill saw with the guard wedged up. ( OSHA and union safety fanatics would freak) Otherwise its a little difficult to make wedges. You need to use two hands,one to hold the guard and one for the saw. Then if you want you can clamp the board on a table or something. I just hold the saw with one hand and the board with the other and cut all the wedges in about 30 seconds. Oh make the wedges about 1" thick.

[Kickin Bears]

Here we go; looking forward to next round vs the bowsprit

[John Stone]

Justin
Outstanding. Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

[tjr818]

Often in a situation like that I have found that the adhesive views the wedges as a new victim, it can grab a hold of the wedges and make progress difficult. Waxing or soaping the wedges can help, you might keep that in mind if you find the wedges are getting caught in the 5200.

[Kickin Bears]

Was thinking some dawn detergent, or cutting board carnuba wax, would work. Always interested in successes / failures from others experiences

[John Stone]

Sand them smooth as you can and wax them with carnauba.

Also, I highly recommend no 5200 on your boat. Same for silicone.

[Kickin Bears]

Sand them smooth as you can and wax them with carnauba.

Also, I highly recommend no 5200 on your boat. Same for silicone.

Roger that. Is there a specific adhesive/sealant product you recommend?

PS - I am on my way to your project page now to see if it’s posted there

Edit - just got back from tour project page. I think it’s 3M 4000 UV. Did I catch that correctly?

[Jim Walsh]

Sand them smooth as you can and wax them with carnauba.

Also, I highly recommend no 5200 on your boat. Same for silicone.

Roger that. Is there a specific adhesive/sealant product you recommend?

PS - I am on my way to your project page now to see if it’s posted there

Edit - just got back from tour project page. I think it’s 3M 4000 UV. Did I catch that correctly?

I used 4000 UV to bed a midship hatch a few years ago and a stanchion base a couple years ago. It’s excellent stuff.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Kickin Bears:

I have used Sika 291 with good success on my small projects. I have also heard positive comments around the docks and boatyards as well as one or more favorable articles in Practical Sailor magazine.

This website should give you some data, specs, etc.

https://usa.sika.com/dms/getdocument.ge ... 291-us.pdf

[John Stone]

Sand them smooth as you can and wax them with carnauba.

Also, I highly recommend no 5200 on your boat. Same for silicone.

Roger that. Is there a specific adhesive/sealant product you recommend?

PS - I am on my way to your project page now to see if it’s posted there

Edit - just got back from tour project page. I think it’s 3M 4000 UV. Did I catch that correctly?

Yes. Normally, that’s what I use. There is no one way to do this but over the years the routine I have incorporated has served me pretty well. Some folks like sikaflex. I have used it with good results too. There are a number of different sikaflexes to chose from. I think I used sikaflex 291. I also use boatlife polysulfied in teak color because I think it looks better when bedding wood. All are good though. Normally you can’t use polysulfied on plastic. Usually polyurethane (3M 4000/4200 and Sika 291) is ok but you have to test it on plastic unless you know for sure. All are fine on wood and metal.

The key is to test fit the hardware then while it’s fitted tape the hardware/wood using 3m 233 solvent resistant tape and the deck. Then remove the hardware, acetone wipe down of hardware base and deck, bed it, and tighten fully, and clean the squeeze-out right then. A well know boat repair author is is wrong about partial tightening until it cures them fully tighten. I always router a caulking grove in the base of any hardware if I can. Use a west systems plastic stir stick as its beveled square on one end. I also use little yellow scoops made by dap. They work pretty good too. Anyway, after you remove the squeeze out then pull the tape. And have a container right there with you to put it into. A cardboard box works best. Dental picks are great for lifting up the edge of the tape. Not real dental picks but the cheap ones you can get at the hardware store. Very useful.

Have a roll of paper towel and acetone or denatured alcohol on hand. You’ll needs lots of nitrile gloves (harbor freight) so have a box right there too.

[robwm]

I gave up on using sealant/adhesive to bed everything from blocks/tackle/tracks/stanchions/window and hatch trim to the deck surfaces when I re-bedded/replaced all of the afore mentioned items on my prior sailboat, a 1973 Cal-24, that I was restoring in Arizona. Instead I used a sealing/bedding "sandwich system" fabricated from hand-fitted gaskets easily made of closed-cell neoprene "foam" sheets and adhesive-backed metal tape.

I thought I'd share my experiences with this "gasket sandwich" method since I found it to be totally effective in sealing penetrations and mountings, was easy to use, has been long lived, and, eliminates the mess associated with sealants.

The gaskets underwent brutally hot and dry summers, and frequent dismounting/re-mounting episodes without suffering any degradation (read: no leaks) since they were installed in 2001, through 2018 when I sold the boat, and to the present time per the current owner. While AZ only gets 10 or so inches of rain a year, much of it occurs during the "monsoon" season during very heavy downpours. Based on my experience, I have no doubt that this method will seal and hold-up just as well in much wetter, and colder, environments.

The neoprene sheets come in various thicknesses and can be purchased from industrial supply outfits like Grainger, or, as I did Michaels (yes the craft store) for a cheaper price and more convenient sizes. The metal tape, aluminum with adhesive on one side (used to seal ducts for air conditioning), can be purchased in rolls at Home Depot or their competitors.

To use this approach, I:
1) hand cut the neoprene to create a gasket that fit the shape or base of whatever item needed to be bedded,
2) hand-cut two slightly oversized (1/4" or so) pieces of the metal tape in the shape of the item being bedded,
3) attached the sticky side of one of the metal tape pieces to the base of the item, and, attached the sticky side of the second piece to the deck surface on which the item would sit (which I had prepped by cleaning with solvent and careful sanding to smooth the surface and remove old adhesive),
4) placed the neoprene gasket made in step 1), between the metal tape pieces previously mounted to the item and the deck surface,
5) fastened the item with its neoprene/metal tape gasket to the deck using the pertinent fastener (screws or, most often through deck bolts). The fasteners were tightened by "feel" until they compressed the neoprene so that it just began to bulge out around the perimeter of the item's base,
6) trimmed excess gasket/metal tape material around the item base using a safety knife,
7) checked, and re-tightened if needed, the fasteners once a year or whenever I needed to remove/re-mount the item. Occasionally, the neoprene gasket would tear when I removed an item and I would simply cut a new gasket to replace it.

The method allow for easy dis/re-mounting of the hardware and inherently protects the seals formed by the gasket sandwich. It also works well in keeping water out; again, no leaks over a period of 18 years since installation. The sticky sides of the metal tape pieces seal nicely to whatever surface they are mounted on once the neoprene gasket is compressed by the fasteners, and, they also provide smooth surfaces against which the neoprene can seal. Since the neoprene material is covered by its respective item, it is not degraded by sunlight. While the neoprene gasket compresses slightly during the first year or so, this is easily fixed by re-tightening the fasteners and actually improves the sealing effectiveness of the neoprene since it effectively fills/bridges better across depressions in the original item/deck surfaces.

Hope you find the above useful.

Robert
CD 22, "Hunky Dory", Hull #122
Marshall Ford Marina,
Lake Travis, Texas

[Frenchy]

One other tip (from Mainesail's website) is to countersink all fastener holes. It works with
caulking as well as butyl tape.






https://marinehowto.com/bed-it-tape/