Engine Installation on the Far Reach

[wikakaru]

I feel uneasy. But, as is my way, it’ll come to me when I am ready to decide.

That is as it should be. I think this is one of those decisions which, like marriage, "is not by any to be entered into unadvisedly or lightly; but reverently, discreetly, advisedly, soberly, and in the fear of God." You want to be sure about this one.

Jim

[John Stone]

I feel uneasy. But, as is my way, it’ll come to me when I am ready to decide.

That is as it should be. I think this is one of those decisions which, like marriage, "is not by any to be entered into unadvisedly or lightly; but reverently, discreetly, advisedly, soberly, and in the fear of God." You want to be sure about this one.

Jim

Well, this thread has certainly gotten heavy.

The relationship I have with this boat is a hard thing to explain. When I have tried to describe my reluctance to move forward with this project most people just look at me with a kind of a perplexed expression. Sometimes I see their lips moving but no words come out.

I have thought, and continue to think, about the pros and cons of installing an engine. I essentially built the Far Reach from a bare hull. I had a very specific vision to fulfill a very specific need. I was searching for a path to a spiritual (?) experience. I would say in so many ways she has provided that for me. The experience is hard to describe. The reality is I lack the words or the skill with the words to explain the journey or the magic. But when the magic happens it is tangibly real. The gist is, for me, the simpler the boat the less there is to get between me and the magic. And I need to be careful moving forward that I don’t create barriers or obstacles that limit the magic or even prevent it from occurring at all.

I ran across a song by Suzanne Vega, a highly skilled and talented but quirky singer songwriter. The song is called a Crack in the Wall. It’s about how sometimes when things are just right an opening can occur between the material world and the spiritual world allowing you to observe or even pass from one side to the other. But, the opening is fleeting and you have to be careful not to upset the balance or it vanishes. Vega does a much better job than I can describing this phenomenon. But, I can attest that I have passed through this crack many times on the FR (and no, there was no LSD or magical mushrooms involved!). But, (there always seems to be a but) in my desire to increase the flexibility of the Far Reach—in ways I think can be beneficial to me, and perhaps to her too—I recognize I have to be careful not to overreach and cause the opening to disappear.

Some folks might think, “well we always thought he was a nut but now we’re sure of it.” All I can say to them is, roger that.

So, if I go forward with the the plan I need to be mindful, careful, thoughtful, and cautious about the ends, ways, and means of the project.

Oh, and here is the link to Crack in the Wall for those that have read this far. If the music is not to your taste the lyrics stand alone quite well.

https://youtu.be/oUUOpz4Ypwk

[tjr818]

...I was searching for a path to a spiritual (?) experience. . . .

John, I am waiting to hear from anyone who has had a "spiritual experience" with a Diesel engine, devilish yes, but I don't think that is the spirit you are looking for.

Best of luck to you John. It is a difficult decision for sure.

[wikakaru]

I am waiting to hear from anyone who has had a "spiritual experience" with a Diesel engine

Well, it was gasoline not diesel engines he was working on, but Robert Pirsig's "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" sort of fits the bill of spiritual experiences with engines. Of course, the character in that book literally was going crazy.

As I said before, John, I'd hate to see Far Reach besmirched by an engine. But I also recognize that practicality has to have its place, too. I believe firmly in "the right tool for the job." If your purpose is to use the boat as a vehicle for spiritual experiences, then an engineless boat sounds like an excellent tool; if it is to voyage to distant lands in a practical manner, then a sailboat with an engine is an excellent tool for that job; and if it is to keep the better half happy while also being on the water, then perhaps a big former charter catamaran is a better tool for the job than any Cape Dory, powered or engineless, would be.

Just a thought...

Jim

[John Stone]

I am waiting to hear from anyone who has had a "spiritual experience" with a Diesel engine

Well, it was gasoline not diesel engines he was working on, but Robert Pirsig's "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" sort of fits the bill of spiritual experiences with engines. Of course, the character in that book literally was going crazy.

As I said before, John, I'd hate to see Far Reach besmirched by an engine. But I also recognize that practicality has to have its place, too. I believe firmly in "the right tool for the job." If your purpose is to use the boat as a vehicle for spiritual experiences, then an engineless boat sounds like an excellent tool; if it is to voyage to distant lands in a practical manner, then a sailboat with an engine is an excellent tool for that job; and if it is to keep the better half happy while also being on the water, then perhaps a big former charter catamaran is a better tool for the job than any Cape Dory, powered or engineless, would be.

Just a thought...

Jim

Who’s to say the “better half” would be happier on a big former charter cat? That neither has been, nor ever will bea solution, much less a substitute, to the FR. Never gonna happen...regardless our destination.

If I were “certain” adding an engine to the FR would eliminate the magic/spiritualness I wouldn’t even consider it. The reality is something will be lost but I am not certain what exactly that something will be.

The focus is still on sailing. I’m still leaning on celestial and working to improve those skills further. No plans for a chart plotter. No plans for any other mods other than a rubrail and a removable platform to to gain a flush cockpit. Still plan to carry and employ the sculling oar as often as possible. Probably about the same amount of time as I do now. Still plan to keep my hank-on jib and stays’l and Sweet Pea, our hard dinghy. Still plan to haul or catch rain water. No plans for refrigeration or a water maker.

The consideration to add an inboard is not about safety. In 8,000 nm I’ve never felt unsafe. Felt inconvenienced a couple times. But no question I have passed up going a few places I now think I would like to visit. If I was sure I’d be double-handing all the time when going to those places maybe I would not add the engine. Maybe. But, I suspect there will still be some singlehanding in my future. If I would sail up the Thames River now I will do the same even if I have an inboard. I’m just wired that way I think.

The question remains, is what we gain worth what we give up? I don’t know the answer to that question. Not yet anyway.

Yesterday, I cleaned out my purpose built anchor storage locker under the walnut companionway ladder platform. My initial assessment is I will be able to retain at least part of this space for anchor and ground tackle storage.

I’m working on an engine template to see how practical my idea is for the offset shaft and two blade folding propeller installation I have in mind.

I bought a used but never employed full boat cover made for a CD 36. Should fit the Far Reach pretty well even with her modifications. I’d like to slow the aging process as much as possible.

I have been surprised by the number of emails I have received, some of whom from people I have never met, concerned about my plan to add the inboard. I am touched by that. It tells me that the simplicity and reliance on traditional skills I crave resonates with them too.

I am proceeding cautiously.

[Mbigos]

My vote would be no engine. You're sort of everyone's hero on this website because of your adventures and you've worked so hard to successfully modify your boat. Your outboard bracket probably gives you at least 70% of what a small diesel will provide. In the next 5 years with solar and battery technology it may pay to wait for innovation.
If you really want the change, maybe sell and find the next boat that will meet your needs. Certainly the weight of boats is coming down, but only few are as well built and tough as a cd.
At any rate, we all enjoy your posts and will cheer your decision.

[mpm]

You may be interested in looking at a Gunboat sv Moonwave. As I understand it, its owner installed electric engines and when he encountered issues with the commissioning of the motors/batteries bought the company. Once he had completed his project sucessfully, he then sold the company to its german competitor. Anyway I understand how complex it is to create simplicity.
I'd love to visit your boat sometime for inspiration.
Cheers

[John Stone]

I took the Beta inboard engine template to the FR yesterday. It fits pretty well. Room under for tranny to clear as well as the oil pan. Much of the anchor storage locker remains unclobbered. Will have to move the stock and shank of the Luke but the fluke for the Luke and the 35 lb spade can remain. Lots of deep storage still available as well.

There is plenty of room above the engine so the work bench and tool drawer can remain. There would be 18” forward of the engine box, i.e. still some storage behind the ladder but forward of the engine box. Also found some room for estimated 15-17 gal fuel tank.

And I’m totally unsure what to do. I’ve never been so indecisive.

I spent some time this morning on top of scaffolding on the port side of the boat playing with the swing arm outboard bracket thinking how I would modify it slightly to improve it if I was to stay with it instead of install an inboard.

Crazy.

I’m not going to force this decision. It’ll come to me in due time.

[Jim Walsh]

The original specs for the CD36 included a Perkins 51 horse power plant. You are considering a VERY conservative 25 horse auxiliary. You still have a much larger than standard rig and a completely custom offshore cruiser. I doubt the addition of this auxiliary will change your preference for self reliance, traditional methods of sail handling, minimal electronics, and celestial navigation.
The addition of this auxiliary can be considered a valuable enhancement to your present options.....not a replacement for those extraordinary modifications you have incorporated into your personal idea of the perfect offshore capable cruiser.

[Ben Miller]

Something else to consider (which I'm sure you already have): Installing in inboard adds complexity, yes. But it also allows you to ditch the outboard and its bracket. While clever and functional, it's also a fairly large piece of gear stuck to your stern quarter that you'd probably appreciate being rid of. So while the Far Reach gets less simple on the inside, it gets more so on the outside.

I would imagine that swapping an outboard for an inboard would also simplify your decision-making process before leaving your slip. You'll never find yourself asking the question, "Should I bring my inboard along for this sail?"

[Frenchy]

Ben has a good point. The inboard will get rid of the gasoline, too. Think of it as a trusted friend, like your
autopilot or AIS. It's there to get you out of trouble when needed and out of way when not.
On feeling spiritual, I guess the closest I've come is sailing on Peconic Bay on Long Island in the early 70's on a
wooden daysailor. There were no buildings as far as you could see, only marsh reeds bending to the breeze. I was
alone most of the time and would hunker down on the floorboards to eat my lunch and watch the terns dive and
fly back to their nests. I felt connected to the earth and to generations of long ago sailors.
Anyway, I think a new diesel will enhance your enjoyment John, giving safety and reliability. - Jean

[wikakaru]

...
Who’s to say the “better half” would be happier on a big former charter cat? That neither has been, nor ever will bea solution, much less a substitute, to the FR. Never gonna happen...regardless our destination.
...
The focus is still on sailing. I’m still leaning on celestial and working to improve those skills further. No plans for a chart plotter. No plans for any other mods other than a rubrail and a removable platform to to gain a flush cockpit. Still plan to carry and employ the sculling oar as often as possible. Probably about the same amount of time as I do now..
...

Hey John,

I'm glad to see you recoil in horror at the suggestion of a former charter cat. I just thought I'd throw it out there and see if an oblique way of thinking would be helpful.

I'm in the reverse situation to you, or more accurately, a similar situation to the one you were in when you rebuilt Far Reach. My "new" CD22 has an engine that I don't really want, but it am not sure if I want to get rid of it, either. I just came back from a 3-day mini-cruise on the 22 in which we sailed into and out of Winter Harbor, Vinalhaven, Maine. Here's the chart:

2019-09-21 Winter Harbor Detail.jpg (294.03 KiB) Viewed 720 times

We had the outboard hung on the transom but didn't touch it in the whole 3 days, during which we were becalmed, and also sailed into and out of one of the more difficult anchorages to enter in all of Maine. In the whole 3 days I didn't see a single sailboat (aside from us) that wasn't using its engine.

My outboard is way too big for the boat--with electric start, an alternator, and remote gearshift it weighs in at 105 lbs, and all that weight on the transom makes the boat look like it's doing a perpetual wheelie. Plus, I can't remove it myself because it is so heavy. I don't like that feeling. Here's the perpetual wheelie:

DSC_6615.JPG (338.09 KiB) Viewed 720 times

But if I remove the outboard I have a bunch more holes all over the boat to plug. And there's always the "what if". What if I sometime really want that outboard and I've removed it? Then I have to go and drill a bunch more holes back in the boat that I would have spent so much time and effort plugging?

Granted, removing an outboard and bracket isn't the same thing as adding an inboard and several holes in the bottom, but I feel your pain.

Maybe it will help if you share what, exactly, you hope to gain by having a diesel engine that your current setup does not provide, and perhaps people on the forum can offer alternative acceptable solutions to those needs.

Smooth sailing,

Jim

[John Stone]

Lots of great thoughtful replies. And I sincerely appreciate the time folks have invested in batting this thing around. To answer your questions:

Oh gosh I don’t know. I can build the argument however it needs to be to support my desired endstate—which seems to shift around. That’s part of the problem.

I love the simplicity of not having the engine. I like the forced reliance on skill. I like the occasional pucker factor on ye ol’ sphincter....when everything works out exactly like you planned and you step up to the fantail and beat your chest and shoot your guns into the air and shout “Hell yeah!”

Ok so I am being a little dramatic.

On the flip side. Gayle doesn’t dig that as much as I do. And to be truthful we don’t have close calls. We are careful and thoughtful and it all goes pretty much without a hitch except there is the pucker factor, because you’d be an idiot to to have it, which I do value. After all, if it were easy...there would be no challenge and then what’s the point?

And there are some places I wanted to go just this year which I shied away from because good judgment demanded it. I wanted to sail into Marsh Harbor (down wind, unmarked narrow channel, following seas) on the way home this past June but not having been there before I was not confident I could get back out without high risk. So I didn’t go. I wanted to go up into Buck Island off St Croix for some world class snorkeling but the channel into the National Park designated anchorage is very narrow directly into the trades and swell and the outboard would have gotten swamped. So, I didn’t go. It annoyed me. Stuff like that.

I think about getting through some of the narrow breakwaters in Europe which I have been considering. Sailing in those unfamiliar restricted heavily trafficked waters, often singlehanding, engineless is probably more limiting than I want.

So my head says put the engine in and keep it a simple streamlined sailing centric arrangement and my heart says naaahhh. Refine the outboard bracket a little more and keep using the sculling oar when you can.

Here is what I am asking myself every day:

1. Will adding the engine enhance my sailing experience or detract from it? If so, how?
2. Will it support me doing things I might not otherwise do and is that a positive?
3. Will it make the boat more capable or less capable?
4. Am I prepared to do the work?
5. If I install the engine can I do it in a practical professional manner that is clever, thoughtful, simple, reliable, and effective.

That’s a long winded answer to your question.

How’s that?

BTW, that’s some good sailing on your CD 22 Jim. I agree, most people I see out on their sailboats are motoring. I just don’t get it. But, that’s not my problem. As long as they are happy who am I to say. They’re out in the water so good for them.

[tjr818]

John,
Perhaps you should think of an inboard engine much as you would a parachute. It would be safely device to save you and your precious Far Reach if things go south some bad night.

[John Danicic]

A most interesting dilemma and discussion but all in all, a simple solution is at hand.

John, install the engine. I know you want to deep down inside. Your significant other wants you to which is a plus to any decision that one can not make on ones own.

It will be a great project. You have the skills and the ability to do it right and a whole winter to accomplish it.

If I may lecture here:
You live in the age you live in. It is not the age of sail. It is the age of oil. It is the age of ever larger and more oil consuming engines that over powers most everything that moves. You have a plastic boat derived from that oil. You used modern tools and energy to rebuild her. You are not a purest by any stretch of the word. No one alive today can say they are, least of all say it on the the internet which is fast becoming the largest energy user on the planet outside heat and transportation.

This engine you propose will be small. Miniscule. It will use the barest minimum of fuel. It will remove that ugly outboard engine which you know looks completely out of place on a 36 and spoils the lines of Typhoons as well.

Once it is in, you never have to use it unless you need to. A stealthy compromise that will allow you and your significant other to still feel like you belong to the age of sail most of the time until you need to move up a few hundred years because an adverse current or wind keeps you wind bound in a, "shit hole harbor" or worse, denies you entrance to paradise.

To paraphrase my brother when I was dithering about whether or not to buy my first Typhoon.

"Install the engine”

Don’t look back, time is a wasting.