Groco Head Repair/Replace

[Dick Kobayashi]

Some years ago I had trouble with my Groco head. Considering that a new head from Groco was about a 100 dollars more than the repair kit, I just bought a new unit and put it in. Now I have non functioning Groco ( the "new" one) and find that the repair kit is very expensive and the direct replacement is very very expensive. Any recommendation on replacements other than Groco. I must admit I have not fully investigated the problem yet but I was hoping for a modestly priced "plug and play solution".

Advice?

[Kickin Bears]

What is it (not) doing?

[jbenagh]

Whoa! I just looked and the price of the service kit is a lot more than I remembered.

This spring, my Groco HF was leaking into the bowl. I did have the service kit so went to rebuild it. A small piece of weed had dried in the valve over the winter, putting the valve in a spot where it was neither flushing or drying. Removing that fixed it.

About every season I rebuild the whole thing and lubricate it with silicone grease and replace the joker valve. That seems to keep it working well.

Jeff

[Kickin Bears]

Jeff ... how time consuming / difficult is the rebuild project?

I have what I think is the original HE model. I was thinking about buying an HF pump for $200 and replacing the HE. It doesn’t look tough

Also, any advice on disassembly and techniques to manage smell / mess would be greatly appreciated!

[jbenagh]

I'd say it was about 90 minutes but I've done a complete rebuild about three times and changed the joker valve about8 times in the past ten years. You might save 30 minutes by using the pump assembly instead of the rebuild kit. I try to pump a lot of fresh water through the head first (assuming it works well enough), then I get a roll of paper towels, a bucket and open a trash bag on the sole. I also use some nitrile gloves once water starts coming out. Getting the hoses off can take a bit of time; I like to use a ratchet wrench on the hose clamps. Then use the paper towels to sponge up the water, squeezing them into the bucket. The actual pump rebuild is pretty quick. I grease the pump bore and the joker valve slits with Super Lube. I always install a new joker valve when I have the hoses off since they're pretty cheap and seem to get calcified pretty quickly. Remember to install the joker valve with the slit vertical. And finally, check the anti siphon valve if it's been a while.

Jeff

[Dick Kobayashi]

Of course, the head in question is on Susan B which is now at her mooring. I was thinking of removing the head entirely to take on land to examine fix. But then I thought I might get a replacement (not too too expensive) and bolt it in. Of course I don't have a diagnosis just yet. Thoughts. In my past life I worked for a while on sewers of the future to replace sewers of the past so I am pretty fearless re sewage but my guests and spouse have not had my experience.

[Mbigos]

I had to get and install a groco service kit, and thought the $60 was worth every penny to have it function perfectly, compared to a new toilet, and to know how it works if I am in a remote area.

[wsonntag]

I've maintained an HF for 20 years or so doing mostly the non-comprehensive repair kit regimen every few years. This spring I earned many dad-type repair project points when I rebuilt the entire pump with a new pump cylinder and internals etc. I'd also note that the bronze valve lever sheared off in my hand when I first put it back together, a moment that led to much questioning of the cosmos and the existential frailties of human existence etc. Oh well better than in the hand of a flummoxed guest on a cruise! Its the first time I've replaced all the parts at one time. Its working great. Best time to do this is early in the season when its still cold (odor, working in a confined space etc). I also did routine maintenance on the head intake tapered seacock valve at the same time for a complete recon job (did all the seacocks in fact).

I'm using Sudbury Marine Toilet deodorant/conditioner for the first time this year. I think the granular blue stuff holding tank treatment I used for many years was hard on the pump internals. This product also has a non-mineral oil lubricant as well. I've used mineral oil for a lot of years, but I'm hearing that might not be the best thing long term.

Below please find the web-link I have used to order parts. Some but not all of these are lower prices than the big general marine outlets.

Like a lot of things, these systems need some routine maintenance but they're simple and that is an advantage. It also seems that parts are still very much available.


https://www.marinesan.com/Groco-HF-parts-s/111.htm

[Dick Kobayashi]

This is really helpful esp. the link. I have determined that my head will flush by pouring in water and flushing. So I only to fix the lever control mechanism. But I bot the whole kit figuring on a complete rebuild before next season. I feel I have been warned, and it is coming up on ten years anyway.

[John Stone]

I have heard good things about the Levac marine head. Simple, reliable, inexpensive. If we had a “marine” head on the FR, I think that is what we would have aboard.

But we don’t have a marine head. Instead we have a dedicated compartment with a nicely designed and ergonomically correct teak lid and seat that houses a five gallon bucket. It has never failed and never will. Unless we are offshore we use wag-bags by Clean waste Systems. They are approved by the National Park Service. Besides being bullet proof our head system ensures our boat never smells like a holding tank. It also allowed us to eliminate two through hulls, a failure prone marine head, sanitation hoses, a vented loop, holding tank, and spare parts. I admit it catches guests off guard at first but all have adapted quickly. And, what a great conversation starter! And it’s just a great wide seat when the lid is down catching all the breeze that comes down through the forward deck hatch.

Some folks seem happy with the composting head. So there are options to the traditional marine head.

[Cathy Monaghan]

Nothing lasts forever.

After rebuilding the head a few times over the years, it was time to replace the 30+ year old Groco HF in our CD32. The toilets in our house aren’t that old and they don’t have plastic bases or plastic pump housings. Anyway, we chose a Raritan PH Superflush Compact Manual Head.

The bolt holes in the base do not line up with the holes for the Groco and the toilet is a little larger, so we filled the old holes with MarineTex, repainted the pan, drilled new holes and installed the new toilet. The hose placement isn’t the same either, so we just replaced all the hoses too.

[Kickin Bears]

Dick .. did you figure out the install issue? Did you install the base flap correctly? Also, have you checked your vent loop for blockage (which can devastate any head system)?

—————

Figured I’d follow up / add to this thread that I just replaced the HF pump. I was looking for peace of mind given the last owner didn’t touch it in the 3 years he owned it (and the joker valve was clearly failing).

405B863E-771D-476E-9752-6FF36B908AC7.jpeg

I also bought a service kit and am going to rebuild the old one at home after disinfecting. Figure I can do a thorough inspection of the pump off the boat, in a more comfortable setting. I’m confident after some TLC, I’ll have the old pump ready for a swap out next year and will just repeat the process, taking the newly installed pump home and rebuilding.

A28D032E-3EA6-4D80-9D2A-DC043418FF73.jpeg

This way I just have to take off 3 hoses and 3 base screws, swap a flap and a pump, and can do the rest of the work off the boat. I’ll always have a pump ready to go in case of an emergency

The $60 service kit doesn’t seem that expensive for the confidence, and seeing the performance difference of a pump with new gaskets and springs well worth the hour of maintenance.

PS - I wore a respirator and some nitrile gloves I have around for fiberglass work, which made the job easily bearable. Easy, simple project well worth the time.

[Dick Kobayashi]

Thanks for the effort to share. I bought the kit but have yet to install. Your pic and approach will help. Thx

[BHalley]

As Cathy posted, I replaced our Groco HF with a Raritan PH Superflush Compact Manual Head this year. We'll let everyone know how it works over the summer, but I got tired of rebuilding the Groco to still not have it draw water in. Fortunately, it pumped out, so last year we used melt water from the ice box to flush with instead of raw water. Anyway, I have a pretty full set of parts to re-build the Groco HF and will bring them to the next NE Fleet Winter Meeting as a give-away. I will also pickle the bronze base and all other parts in bleach and have those available too if anyone wants them at the NE Fleet winter meeting.

Bruce Halley
Realization CD 32 #3