Cape horn windvane on" Leoma's" worm stering

[JD-MDR]

I'm working with Edson Marine and Cape Horn guys and taking in all John Stone's work to come up with a plan for 'Leoma". The easiest thing to do is like in photo of "Morning Star" with lines going across the cockpit. Like John I am determined to keep the control lines concealed in the lazerette. Cape Horn says they spent so much time on it and decided it was not possible for the worm drive steering. Maybe he meant not economically possible which means I may take his advise. But I have attached photos, One showing a mock up of the steering drum (white foam) attached on the aft end of the worm screw shaft and the orange disc represents the radius that the quadrant (attached to the Horizontal shaft through the transom from the vane) would need to rotate 360 degrees. I don't see why I can't attached pads on the hull for the blocks and run lines, like John did, to the drum. I just need to figure out how to disengage the vane steering for manual wheel steering. Another thought , I wonder if I could hook the vane direct to the steering screw with an angled coupling (Edson has it on their catalog called (shaft universal) it changes the angle of the steering shaft up to 30 degrees. Then it would be a bigger problem finding a way to disengage.I hope this is understandable. Your input is appreciated.

[Jim Walsh]

If you are indicating that Morning Star has a working solution to the installation of a Cape Horn steering gear on a worm drive equipped boat my advice would be to go with the existing installation example.
If you are able to verify the installation actually worked, and was not merely one step in a process which was a failed attempt at a working installation solution, you are ahead of the game.
A below decks installation may just not be feasible in your particular circumstance.
The ability to immediately engage/disengage your steering gear from your rudder are non negotiable.
Having a couple control lines led through the cockpit are a small price to pay for the luxury of being fitted with a wind vane self steering gear.
For me, long distance singlehanding would not be possible without my Monitor at the helm.

[JD-MDR]

Thanks Jim, One thing if I do run the lines through the cockpit. Then the only reason to bore the 2-1/2" hole in the transom is to be able to hook up a tiller pilot. Otherwise I think that horizontal shaft can just mount on the transom. The tiller pilot is a nice feature but I I would have to keep the locker clear so I can access it . Or I think they have a wired remote. I agree Its foolish to be singlehandling without a autopilot. We've had some winds here the last two weeks and I tried to go across the channel twice and turned around both times. I couldn't let the wheel go at all to do anything. Sometimes I enjoy the rough weather but not when I'm not in control.

[JD-MDR]

Adding one more photo. It shows the 14" vertical shaft that replaces the quadrant. It can mount on the transom. This way the only reason to bore the 2-1/2" hole in the transom is to hook up the tiller pilot. A shot of the tiller pilot hookup

[Frenchy]

J.D. - I probably shouldn't be posting because I know nothing about wind vanes, but in case you haven't investigated,
maybe you could look at the hydrovane. It's completely independent of the ship's steering system, meaning you wouldn't
have to bore holes through the transom and you needn't worry about interaction with the worm gear steering. No
lines across the cockpit.
On their website, they show installations on a Cape Dory 33 and 36 as well as many other boats. Just a thought- Jean

[JD-MDR]

Maybe we’ll get some comments. I’ve never looked into them. How much do they cost

[K Chiswell]

A compromise may be to use the standard Cape Horn quadrant inside the lazarette, but install a hub on the wheel like the pictures you posted. You could lead the control lines out the front of the wheel box, down low, and up to the wheel. This would give you access to disengage the control lines at the same time keep them from crossing the cockpit.

[JD-MDR]

That's an idea. Ives from Cape Horn suggested permanently mounting the lines to the drum inside the lazerette and having a way to release the two turning blocks coming off the quadrant. . That's just a first thought. It sounds like it won't be a problem. Just deciding which way is best. I have time to wait for more ideas.

[Frenchy]

J.D. - The prices of the components are listed on the Hydrovane website. In general, I think the cost would be similar to a new
monitor - somewhere around 5 boat bucks, not including installation, accessories, etc. A little boost for the hydrovane is
that Jean-Luc van den Heede is using one on his Rustler 36 (he's a five-time circumnavigator) and is presently in the lead
(among 18 boats that started) in the Golden Globe solo circumnavigation race. - Jean

[John Stone]

JD
Greetings from the BVI! I read through the thread. I just don’t know much about worm gear so all can do is provide general thoughts.

From the thread it seems like a struggle to make the Cape Horn integrate. Those are warning signals well worth paying attention to. I am very happy with my Cape Horn vane but it integrates perfectly with my steering system.

The CH may just not be the best choice for worm gear. And if it isn’t I would not use it. In other words, don’t force the two systems to work together. As Jim pointed out the vane steering needs to work smoothly to operate as designed. There are a number of vanes out there and I think they are all probably pretty good but it’s imperative to install one that integrates best with your boats steering system. Jean’s advice about the hydrovane seems pretty solid and perhaps a better option.

I have made a lot of modifications to the Far Reach. But when I found myself trying to force an idea to work I stopped. I always try to remember a doctors first rule: do no harm. You have worked hard on your boat to make her the sailing machine you want. A vane that does not work right simple does not work. It’s a wast of your time, energy, and money. While a reliable easy to manage vane that steers your boat properly under a wide variety of conditions will revolutionize your singlehanded sailing experience.

[JD-MDR]

Thanks John, I hope your having a great time. Ives has been so helpful I really want to buy his product and running the lines on one side of the cockpit like "Morning Star" doesn't seem so bad. However. We have some pretty good ideas. and haven't given up on concealed lines. I think I am ready to order,( financially). We haven't decided how to engage/disengage yet. I'm gonna get all my measurements this weekend. and verify some things. He needs to know the ratio of the wheel to rudder angle. I eyeballed it. As I turn the wheel 270 degrees it looks like the rudder post turns 45 degrees . I think that means 6/1. He asked for the angle from " lock to lock" . I think that means from all the way from one side to all the way to the other. I'm gonna try to make some kind of cardboard protractor and put a needle on top of the rudder post. maybe I can get more accurate measurements.

[John Stone]

JD
Yves is a very smart guy and a great engineer for how to make things work smoothly and reliably. If he thinks it will work that means a lot. And you seem to have good instincts. If you can solve the engineering challenges and not get complicated imnsurenyounwill be delighted with the vane.

Wishing you the best,
John

[JD-MDR]

And I like the challenge. I can always redo .

[JD-MDR]

Here is the photo of the how the drum and quadrant will be, again and a drawing of the control lines. I can always reroute the lines and move the drum to the exterior like Chriswell suggested . I sending the deposit ..

[JD-MDR]

Got all the measurements for the Cape horn windvane. ready to order. While I was in steering mood I decided to work on that bracket that was bleeding all the rust stains in the cockpit. Tapping on it with the hammer it fell apart. Good thing my neighbor caught me and reminded me to get the pattern before it was too late. I thought this would be a simple job. Not. I was considering fabricating a new one with G-10, but I think aluminum would be easier and cheaper.