Unanswered varnishing questions

[Ben Miller]

I'm refinishing the hatch boards on my Typhoon this spring. This should be a pretty simple job: strip off the old oil finish, sand smooth, and varnish, right? After all, they're just planks of teak. But that's where I'm getting tripped up thinking about the job. Since both sides (and all the edges) of the boards need to be finished, how do I go about coating all six surfaces? Should I put all X coats on one side first, then flip and do the other side? Or put on one coat, let it dry, flip, and repeat?

[John Stone]

Ben
Before I answer your question I recommend you consider not varnishing the drop boards. By design they have a hard life. It is a losing battle trying to keep them vsrnished. Bare teak drop board look great contrasted against other less vulnerable teak.

That said, I’d flip the teak as you varnish. Get a board and drive some dry wal. Screws through it. Then file the tops a little so they are not so sharp. Set the boards on the screws varnish then when. Dry flip and varnish the other side. Or set them on blocks of 2x4s that don’t extend past the edges of the drop boards. Se the side face down on the 2x4s that were varnished the day before. Usually the side varnished the day before is dry enough to be face down 24 hours later.

Keep going and alternating sides till you have 8x10 coats per side. Sand after every coat till the last finish coat. That’s how I’d do it.

[Steve Laume]

I use drywall screws through pieces of plywood. I have a few different sizes that I keep in my shop. For at least the first few coats, I will varnish one side and flip it when still wet and do the other side. The tiny little pin pricks do not really show and the next coat will put them in another place.

Drop boards are like the front door to your house. They are the first thing you look at when coming aboard and they look very nice when varnished. They also tend to see less UV light then most other parts of the boat. Most of the time they are under the dodger and they are often stowed away when cruising. To keep them from getting beat up when not in place, I made up a three pocket bag for them, out of some fleece material. When I take them out, they go right into the bag and then get stowed away.

To reduce winter exposure, I made up a one piece drop board out of 3/4", painted, plywood. This board has a residential, aluminum, vent in it to allow for increased air flow. It save a lot of exposure to the varnished boards. It also allows me to take my time when I have the drop boards out for their annual touch up coats.

I have lost count of how many coats Raven's drop boards have on them at this point but it is well into the teens. They started out a bit rough but are now smooth, flat and beautiful. Steve.

[Ben Miller]

Thanks for the tips, guys! It's the little things like this that don't usually get covered in the books/manuals, so it's very helpful to have someone experienced weigh in.

Thanks also for the competing pro/con point of views on whether or not to do this at all! Most of the teak on my Typhoon is very old and worn, with heavily raised grain. The drop boards are the one part which seems like it could be rehabilitated to some extent, so I'm going to use them as an area where I can get some practice varnishing and see if it's really something I want to do much of in the future. If not, they should be easy to strip.

Any thoughts on how to deal with the rest of it? The coamings and trim around the hatch both have a lot of raised grain and I think sanding them enough to be smooth and flat would take a lot of time and work. A round of Te-Ka and then some kind of oil finish? Leave it bare and just try to keep it clean? (Not so easy with all the ridged grain...)

[Forrest]

Consider using bleach to clean the teak and then let it be. I was all set to clean the teak on my CD30 with a 2 part solution when a guy came by and said "try bleach full strength; hose the teak down with water, apply full strength bleach, rinse it off." I did a second coat of bleach and went over it with a soft brush, and hosed it down a second time. Came out great, was easy, only took a few hours, and way cheaper than the 2-part.

[John Stone]

If you want to get serious about varnish then get Rebecca Whitman’s book, “Brightwork.”

It’s my primary source. Tons of info. She is an expert.

Never used pure bleach. Seems like it would be very hard on the wood. “Do no harm.” And pure bleach can be hard on bedding compound. Don’t know what it will do to gelcoat or Awlgrip. It’s definitly not good for marine life. Te-Ka is strong but has a neutralizer. Also I have used oxalic acid mixed with water into a thin paste (you can get it at ACE hardware) and neutralize it with vinegar and water 3:1). Use minimal clearer to get the job done. Use a wash cloth to scrub or soft bridle tooth brush if brushing is necessary. Sand with 220 when dry.

You can also clean bare teak with water with a little TSP but TSP will dry out the oil in teak out so only use when nesessary. We use water and a little gentle soap with washcloth in the bare the teak on the Far Reach.

Don’t oil it. It’s perfect the way it is.

[Ben Miller]

If you want to get serious about varnish then get Rebecca Whitman’s book, “Brightwork.”

I'm not sure yet if I want to "get serious," but I did get her book! It seems like a great resource on first reading, and I'm sure I'll continue to go back to it.

I think giving the existing teak a good cleaning and then leaving it bare sounds like a good way to go. I'm still going to varnish those drop boards, though.

[Forrest]

If you're still looking for solutions, here's about a dozen more !

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index ... ox.144907/

[John Stone]

Be very careful blindly following a lot of the “I heard a good way to clean teak is ...” as reflected in a number of the comments in the link above to sailboat owners.

The intentions are good but often times people repeat what they hear without really understanding the second and third order effects of those actions. There are no shortcuts with varnish. And though we may not require a perfect finish and the work that goes with obtaining such a finish I would caution from doing something that will harm the wood. If you don’t require or desire a high level of finish to exterior wood there are safe ways of achieving your endstate without harming the wood , your boat, the marine environment, or yourself. While teak is a tough hardy wood it is not impervious rough handling.

[jbenagh]

Get Rebecca's book!!!

Get the book!!!

Get the book!*

Then make a little document that says what the steps are and when you did them. If you are not in FL (like in New England), save them. Then refer to them in future years. Her advice is for 80F daytime and 65F night time. I think you'll find 4-6 day cure times for coats 3 & 4 (or 4 & 5 depending how you count) when you only get 1-4 hours over 60F.

I use Epifanes. My boat was originally all Cetol. If you follow her rules you will clog a lot of 220G sandpaper.Also, I have found it useful to leave the cover on late to allow varnishing all but the toe rail as the cover removes the risk of blush after 2pm in New England spring.

Cetol is more forgiving but not glossy unless you do 4 refresher coats yearly. This is really tough for scratch and patch (see Whitman) unless you skip the gloss (sad). Real varnish is easier to retouch but harder originally IMO.

Jeff

* PS the other essential book is "Eliminating Boat Odors" -- buy that one too! You're only out $35-50 after both and your quality of life aboard will be greatly enhanced.

[gates_cliff]

I just looked up the refinishing book and it sells for somewhere between $50 + up to $300 +/-!

If anyone wants to sell a used copy (at a reasonable price) let me know.

[John Stone]

Here ya go. $27. About half the cost of a quart of good varnish.

[jbenagh]

WOW! Glad I got my copy 10 years ago. I've been really happy with following her recommendations, I'll try to post her actual advice without violating copyright. Let me know what you want to know.
Jeff

[LilYachty]

I sand all old finish off, then do two coats of Mas LV epoxy, scuffing with a gray scotchbrite pad between coats. Then I do several coats of Pettit Captain's 2015 Varnish. The epoxy consolidates and protects the wood and gives good build. The varnish is to protect the epoxy from UV. It's an excellent system

[John Stone]

I sand all old finish off, then do two coats of Mas LV epoxy, scuffing with a gray scotchbrite pad between coats. Then I do several coats of Pettit Captain's 2015 Varnish. The epoxy consolidates and protects the wood and gives good build. The varnish is to protect the epoxy from UV. It's an excellent system

I don’t understand what “consolidates” means in this context. Can you explain what you mean?

Coating wood with epoxy other than plywood is, in general, not a good idea in my opinion. High quality varnish is flexible. It moves with the wood. Epoxy tends to be brittle. It doesn’t move and it doesn't do anything for the wood that varnish doesn’t do better. Wood needs to be able to move. Epoxy doesn’t move. They are in conflict. I know some folks like the epoxy based varnish. I know they use it. It lasts, they say, a long time etc. but it will fail...eventually. I can promise you that. And when it does it will need to be stripped and reapplied. Varnish is easy to strip with a heat gun. I’m sure stripping epoxy from a wood like teak makes st be a difficult time consuming task. I don’t know of any classic yachts that use epoxy based varnish. It’s just too hard on the wood and in the long run too difficult to maintain when it eventually fails.

Having said all that , I’m all about people doing what they want—I certainly do. Your boat, your money, your way.