Winch size for 25D

[Joe Myerson]

With Defender having their annual sale, I'm considering replacing the original equipment Lewmar winches on my 25D with self-tailing ones. Does anybody know what size will fit on the existing bronze winch mounts?

Thanks,

--Joe

[Bob Lascelles]

Hi Joe,

Here's what I installed on Vindolanda two years ago (Defender's sale ):

Defender p/n#606107 Lewmar Ocean Series 16BBST Self-Tailing Winch - Size 16 .

They are all bronze single speed self tailers and really help single handing. They fit the bronze winch support bases on the 25ds no problem however, you have to drill a new hole pattern in the winch support base.

All the best,

Bob

[Sea Hunt Video]

Joe:

I installed Lewmar 16 ST bronze winches on S/V Bali Ha'i.

This link is a discussion of the prep, installation, etc. The very last post on page 2 of the thread is a detailed description of what to do and, more importantly, what NOT to do.

http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... s&start=15

If any questions do not hesitate to call me or email me. Peter Wallace (he crossed the bar a few years ago) walked me through the process as he had done the same thing on his beloved Cape Dory 25D, S/V Lady Jane. Peter was one of the kindest, most generous persons I have ever met.

[Jim Walsh]

You will find a set of self tailers a very welcome addition. I installed a set three years ago. Once installed, and in use, you will wonder why you waited so long.

[Tod Mills]

Bob, Roberto, or anyone else with this winch on a 25D or 26,

When you sheet in to beat with as much wind as you would fly your working jib in, how much power does the winch have? Do you have to basically crouch facing the winch with a good grip on the handle to be able to winch in, or can you winch while reaching off to the side, lightly grasping the handle?

I'm trying to get an idea where the winch falls in the range of acceptable size, whether it is close to being maxed out or whether it could handle considerable more load.

Thanks!

Tod

[Joe Myerson]

Peter Wallace (he crossed the bar a few years ago) walked me through the process as he had done the same thing on his beloved Cape Dory 25D, S/V Lady Jane. Peter was one of the kindest, most generous persons I have ever met.

Roberto:
Yes, I remember Peter well. I met him when Neil and I were checking out his boat for you. I met him again when he called me up to offer some items from his garage before he sold the boat. By that time he could hardly walk. He was one of a kind. R.I.P. Peter.

--Joe

[fmueller]

Joe,

I think the Spartan winch bases on my 27 are the same as on your 25.

I got Lewmar ST 16s as well and they fit (just) and there does not seem to be any issue with the strength of the base with the larger winch going on three years. Sometimes I actually wish I had ST 30s - I have to be honest - with my 135%. (but I'm sailing most of the time now with a high clew 115% and the 16s are ok for that). Climbing up to 30s would have required custom likely mahogany bases and more $$. So I just went with the obvious improvement. What I really wish is that there was a similarly sized 2 speed. But I never found one.

Not only is it a little tricky tapping new holes, you also have to pay attention to where the line "stripper" is oriented in relation to the cockpit - as the setup will not be mirror image because both winches will be grinding in the same direction. (Clockwise I believe). So you've got to make a judgement about where you want the line to fall and where you want the jaws to clamp when wrapping the sheet - and its unavoidably different ergonomics on each side. If my boat wasn't currently practically completely disassembled, I'd take some pictures - much easier to "see" than describe.

Also because the ST 16 is a little taller than OEM, you may find that you need to either raise or lower the lower life line (if you've got a double life line setup, I can't remember) because the lower line will be interfering with outboard arc of the handle ... I raised my lower life line by raising clamp position on the nearest stanchion just forward of the winch.


The 16s are a step up from the OEM 8s, that's for sure.

cheers

Fred

[Bob Lascelles]

Hi Tod
I have a roller furling 135 on my 25d. The 16STs are a big improvement over the standard winches, because you don’t need to tail the sheet you have a free hand most of the time. I don’t think they have a big mechanical advantage over the original winches. I guess there are times where a second speed would be nice for fine trimming. However, when I was deciding about the winches, the higher price and the size of the bases made me decide to stick with the single speed.
All the best
Bob

[fmueller]

Todd (and Joe)

I agree with the way Bob has described the ST 16s over the non-tailing 8s ... they are more powerful than the 8s but not by a lot. I need to pull or push the handle in short arcs with some effort, when the wind is up. So yes the 16s are close to their limit I would say. But because they self tail you can just reach across the cockpit from the high side and give a few tugs to snug the jib in quickly and that is great. You won't be doing 360 arcs when the wind is up except when bringing the jib around the mast, and there I usually do that with a pre-wrap on the drum by hand as the jib comes around - then wrap the line in the tailing jaws, fix the handle in the socket, then grind in the jib - quite a few steps if you are single handing. So even with tailing winches, the first few sails each season are for getting into the rhythm of this little dance until I get smooth again.

Also, easing the jib a little is not really any less complicated with self tailing, you have to unwrap the line out of the jaws while maintaining tension on the drum wrap, and then ease that tension to let a little line out without the benefit of 1/2 a wrap on a cleat to use as a friction point. And in a moving boat it is not necessarily any easier to get the line back into the self tailing jaws than it is to put a few more wraps around the cleat which you already have 1/2 a hitch on.

Joe - I hope I haven't spoiled your enthusiasm for new winches ...

Fred

[Joe Myerson]

Thanks, all, for the recommendation. I just placed the order for two 16STs with the bronze finish.

And, Fred, you didn't discourage me. If drilling and tapping the new holes seems intimidating, I might have the yard do it (at $100/hour). As I get older, I find myself having the yard do more and more. I'm finally getting ST winches because my hands are always sore after a day on the water. Growing old ain't for sissies, as my late father used to say.

--Joe

[Sea Hunt Video]

Joe:

If I can do it alone you can DEFINITELY do it alone. It is not physically difficult. It is time consuming to make sure you position the holes correctly, drill straight, keep the area clean, etc.

Take a look again at my detailed description of the installation on S/V Bali Ha'i (I posted the link above). I will be happy to talk with you about this installation. If I say it is "easy" believe me, it is EASY

$100/hour Geeez Louise