Radar

[jbenagh]

Christine C is getting radar this winter. After a foggy trip to Maine and a terribly foggy one on the return, we've decided it's time. I'm leaning towards the Garmin GMR Fantom 18. I've really liked the Garmin user interface and have used a bunch or Garmin and other vendors' products. I'm open to others though since I need to replace the chart plotter to get radar access.

Has anyone researched this recently? It seems like the solid state is the better than the mechanical sweep. And chirp is way better. Is there any significant difference between an 18 and 24 in dome? I plan on a fixed mount (not gimbaled), on the mast above the spreaders on a CD30. It seems like keeping the smallest possible windage up there is best for sailing characteristics. I'd hate to sacrifice daysailing (which is most of my sailing) to get slightly better radar performance.

Jeff

[Chrisa006]

I have been researching radar also. The one difference I saw between the 18 and the 24 is with the smaller 2 targets fairly close together may appear as one. I am sure there will be many who know far more than I do who will comment.

[jen1722terry]

Yes, we'll be curious to know what you learn.

Our radar/plotter is going on 13 years old. Both still work fine, but who knows for how long?

Solid state scanners? Cool!

We use our radar a lot, as most of our sailing is in Maine and Nova Scotia which has a bit of fog. One thing we would mention is
to practice in fair weather to compare what you're seeing ahead to the screen image. We do this every spring to refresh our aging memories, as image interpretation is important.

Enjoy the shopping.

Jenn and Terry

[Paul D.]

I have taken a look at radar over the recent years though I do not have one aboard. I've used one a few times on charter boats and know some of their value and limitations. My brother put on a Garmin a few years ago also, so we learned a few lessons there. Things I would consider if doing this upgrade now include the following:

- Matching the brand of components seems to be a larger factor than the competitive performance of individual radar units. If you have a Garmin MFD I would go Garmin Radar, likewise Raymarine etc. Also, I would ask around about using a large array run through a small display. Would the interface actually take advantage of the larger array's abilities? Consider the whole thing as a system I guess is what I mean here.
- We found it impossible to properly run the wiring for the radar down the mast on my brother's CD36 so he ended up going with an expensive stern backstay pole mount. This was after much frustration so consider location carefully and don't assume you can run the wires without testing that out.
- The new Raymarine Quantum is significantly lesser weight than previous models. A big factor for our hull shapes if you are mounting it in the stern.
- Think about what targets you want to see on the radar. If it is shoreline and aids to navigation, you may not need a larger array to distinguish between types of vessels etc.

Whatever, you are adding a significant amount of complexity to your sailing - my brother has already had some glitches he's needed to spend time on. But if you sail in fog a fair amount, or have deadlines to meet when sailing, radar is a great real time tool that doesn't rely on billions of dollars of electronics...in space.

[Keith]

I have the GRM 18 with the 741xs chart plotter not fantom. Purchased in 2015 so have used it for 3 seasons. I can't comment on solid state vs sweep vs chirp. I can tell you it was easy to install (on mast just over deck/running light), plenty of room for the power and signal cables in the mast, easy to read as an overlay or side by side with plotter. I don't think that you will regret the purchase sailing a lot in Maine fog. It is invaluable to me in the fog dodging the fast ferries and mega yachts going between Hyannis/Nantucket/Marthas Vineyard. The best advice I can give is what Jean/Terry said use it in clear weather. I drop anchor in Hyannis harbor every spring for an hour or so and watch the variety of boats go by and familiarize myself with their signature. From an 8 for zodiac with a kicker to the giant ferries it sees them all.

Good Luck with your purchase

[Jim Walsh]

I like radar's ability to spot squall lines and differentiate between a small rain shower and a massive rain "umbrella" when offshore. No sense getting all soaped up if you aren't going to get rinsed off
I also use it to verify (along with AIS and visual observations) that my path is clear so I can sleep soundly until my alarm goes off.

[David Morton]

I am happy with my Garmin HD dome and its interface with my Garmin 740 chartplotter. I particularly like the ability to superimpose the radar image over the chart plotter, which helps discern between fixed, charted objects and other stuff. It's not perfect, but can be useful. Radar is a must for anyone cruising the NE coast.

David

[Bob Ohler]

Keep it all one brand.
Raymarine has the worst customer service of all of them.
Take a good look at B & G. It is designed and programmed for sailors.
The B & G Zeus 3 MFD is unbelievably nice and the operation is intuitive.

[Joe CD MS 300]

I have had a Garmin 3006 GPSmap and whatever was their smallest (at the time) compatable radar GMR 20/40. It was installed in 2006. Never any issues or complaints. My boat never leaves the fog bound coast of Maine. The ability to overlay the radar over the chart is better than eyeballs in most cases for knowing exactly where you are. You really don’t need the ultimate state of the art for coastal cruising. Maybe if you are in a heavy commercial area. I had a library of about 600+ waypoints for the coast on the portable and handheld Garmins I had used over the years. As I wanted to be able transfer them over to the 3006 GPSMap I didn’t really consider any other. I have always been happy withGarmins support.

[MFC]

I have had Garmin 4208 + Garmin HD18 for 5-6 years and have been generally happy with the equipment and very happy to have radar (every once in a while the chartplotter overheats and needs to be rebooted). Garmin support is head and shoulders above Raymarine (I will never buy RM equipment again). I was, and remain, intrigued by the broadband radar offered by Lowrance / Simrad / Navionics. Is Garmin now in that Broadband territory? Any way you go, Radar is a great tool for weather and nav purposes. One example, running inland waters or complicated channels after dark *much* easier with Radar than it was before. I imagine you would similarly benefit while navigating waters strewn with lobster pots (that application alone might lean toward the close up clarity of BB). All of this equipment is so much better and cheaper than when I bought my boat 10 years ago . . .

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Bob Ohler]

Just a quick follow up MFC's post...
Lowrance is designed for fishermen in boats up to and around 25'.
Simrad is Lowrance on steroids, and is used by the larger sport fisherman. Simrad runs and processes faster than Lowrance.

B & G is Simrad programmed for sailors.
All three brands mentioned above come from Navico engineers. In my opinion, they are the leaders in electronics engineering.

We are loving the B & G Zeus3 7" that we installed in 2017! The First Mate's initial comments were, "Oh wow!"

[jbenagh]

Thank you all for the advice! We looked a lot at B&G but settled on the Garmin 742XS and the 18in Phantom radar. I would have liked a larger display but we keep the unit on a RAM arm over the icebox on our CD30 and nothing larger then 7in would fit. The Garmin fit a little better and we're really used to the user interface since we had an older 4in GPS.
We bought from Voyager Marine Electronics in Essex,MA who have been great! They got us the boat show discount which saved about 7% and they have a ton of experience and stock of connectors to match most needs.
Now I have two other questions:

1) We'd like to mount a PA speaker under the radome for a foghorn from the radio. How have you done this? I Think I might install a piece of 1/4 or 3/16in G10 on the radome mounting bolts and attach the speaker to that. It does not appear there it a good way to attach directly to the Scanstrut without really compromising the finish (which will probably lead to corrosion). I worry that this may loosen the nuts on the radome attachment.

2) Is it really necessary to have a guard around the radome? It seems pretty well shaped to resist grabbing the genoa (we have a 135) and I don't see these on most boats with newer radars.

Jeff

[fmueller]

Going thru a big refit for my Jerezana this winter ...

I've decided to take my B&G 4G radar off the mast. I want to clear the slot/windage, and get the weight down off the mast. I don't use it much around Narragansett Bay with the kind of sailing I do. I'll put it on a Scanstrut stick aft, maybe, so I can take it down altogether most of the time ...

Plus note to Jeff re a "guard": part of the reason for me to take the dome down is that my jib has noticeably beat up the dome of the radar - the jib shows nothing. Go figure. But our CD 27s are not big boats and I've just decided having that thing up there is excessive because I don't use it enough. BTW, I had LED deck lights hanging off the Easton radar bracket I used up there. That WAS useful ... so I'll move those to the spreaders

Navico (B&G, Simrad, Lowrance) FMCW (frequency modulated continuous wave - they call it "broadband") radar has no radiation risk (they say less than a cell phone) so is a good candidate for pole mounting or cabin top mounting on a power boat. In my experience it is an excellent device for shorter range out to about 5 miles (I can pick out the boats in their slips at Rhode Island Yacht Club, even right next to me), but not as good as trad pulse radar for longer range (squall lines 15 miles away). So I'm not too worried about reducing its range by lowering height, because I'm just not an open ocean sailor. The few times it has been useful was at night on late arrivals and just seeing small boat traffic coming up the Bay in the dark, and I think it will do that on a 6' pole just fine.

I have a B&G Zeus Touch 7 plotter and the radar can superimpose over the map, as other have mentioned. Pretty amazing. The plotter has been flawless. I agree with the comments about sticking with brand when you put a system together so I went with B&G radio, plotter, wind instrument, radar, and depth/speed transducer - on a Nmea 2000 buss ...

cheers

Fred