JIB DOWNHAUL
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
- Posts: 3621
- Joined: Oct 6th, '08, 07:30
- Location: S/V Far Reach: CD 36 #61 www.farreachvoayges.net www.farreachvoyages.com
JIB DOWNHAUL
There may be a few holdouts out there still sailing without a jib furler, if so, maybe this project will interest you. If you have a furler and love it then move along citizen there is nothing to see here!
I like sailing with a hank-on jib. It’s more efficient. The sail itself is longer lived than a furling headsail. It is less expensive. There is less maintenance required and it is more reliable. But, it is not as convenient as a furling jib...no doubt about it. While there are techniques for managing a hank-on jib that are tried and proven, it does take skill, occasional acrobatics, and some planning to keep things under control. Our genoa is about 390sqft. But, it has a bonnet that we can zip off that reduces it to a working jib size of about 280 sqft. But, the challenges are similar with either headsail.
We use a jib downhaul as part of our headsail handling system. A jib downhaul is a line (in our case 1/4” 3 strand dacron) that is attached to the jib halyard shackle and then shackled to the headstay. It remains connected to the halyard regardless if the jib is raised or lowered. The downhaul runs down through a low-friction ring seized to the jib tack fitting and then leads aft to the foredeck. When you let go the jib halyard and the sail drops you just pull on the downhaul ensuring the jib comes all the way to the deck and thus it can’t be partly blown back up the headstay. Unless you are into drama and high adventure, when you drop the headsail you have to know it will come all the way down and stay there. That’s what the jib downhaul is designed to do...help pull the jib down when the wind is up and then keep it down.
The thing is, I had not figured out a good way to cleat off the running end of the downhaul. For two years I simply tied it off to the forward port stanchion with a round turn and a couple half hitches. It worked but it was not ideal. It took two hands. It could get hairy at night, off-shore or not, to get the jib down and secured. I thought about installing a cam cleat to quickly secure the downhaul. I did not want a Harken or Schaefer cleat for a location I knew would be bathed in saltwater. Also, aesthetically, a modern cam cleat would clash with bronze deck hardware. And, it needed to have an integral fairlead to capture the line in place because the cleat and line ends up under the sail when its down on the deck.
A couple years ago, I read a review in WoodenBoat magazine extolling the quality of hand-made bronze marine hardware JM Reineck and Son. I sent away for the catalog—only about 5 pages long. Jim Reineck did indeed make a bronze cam cleat with a double row of delrin ball-bearings and an integrated fair-lead. Looked perfect. I had seen a similar one used for the same purpose on another boat I have long admired. But it was too expensive. I lusted for it for about a year. I kept looking at it in the catalog. Finally, I could resist the temptation no longer. I called Jim Reineck. He was very personable and answered all my questions. I gave in and ordered it. It arrived a couple weeks ago and it is in fact a gorgeous piece of hardware. But, it’s not bling. It’s got a real job. It’s well made, tough, and is designed for combat. I installed it last week. I have not had a chance to use it under sail but I have practiced with it at the dock. I think it’s going to work out well. Still not as convenient as a furler. But, it’s a simple solution for simple system.
And I mention a small thing for those who might want to but can't seem to break away from a furler. Read "Gyspy Moth Circles the World." In 1966-67, Francis Chichester sailed his 53' ketch around the world single-handed via the great capes with hank on sails. He was 66 years old. No GPS. No electronic auto pilot. No electronic winches. No furlers. He was a tough ol' bird, true enough. But, we can sail boats half that size if it's important to us. By the way, its a great book too if you enjoy a real sea yarn. Gyspy Moth IV was a terrible boat. A real hell-bitch. He had no fondness for her that's for sure.
If you are interested in how we installed the downhaul cleat you can click here for more info. https://farreachvoyages.wordpress.com/2 ... /#more-953
I like sailing with a hank-on jib. It’s more efficient. The sail itself is longer lived than a furling headsail. It is less expensive. There is less maintenance required and it is more reliable. But, it is not as convenient as a furling jib...no doubt about it. While there are techniques for managing a hank-on jib that are tried and proven, it does take skill, occasional acrobatics, and some planning to keep things under control. Our genoa is about 390sqft. But, it has a bonnet that we can zip off that reduces it to a working jib size of about 280 sqft. But, the challenges are similar with either headsail.
We use a jib downhaul as part of our headsail handling system. A jib downhaul is a line (in our case 1/4” 3 strand dacron) that is attached to the jib halyard shackle and then shackled to the headstay. It remains connected to the halyard regardless if the jib is raised or lowered. The downhaul runs down through a low-friction ring seized to the jib tack fitting and then leads aft to the foredeck. When you let go the jib halyard and the sail drops you just pull on the downhaul ensuring the jib comes all the way to the deck and thus it can’t be partly blown back up the headstay. Unless you are into drama and high adventure, when you drop the headsail you have to know it will come all the way down and stay there. That’s what the jib downhaul is designed to do...help pull the jib down when the wind is up and then keep it down.
The thing is, I had not figured out a good way to cleat off the running end of the downhaul. For two years I simply tied it off to the forward port stanchion with a round turn and a couple half hitches. It worked but it was not ideal. It took two hands. It could get hairy at night, off-shore or not, to get the jib down and secured. I thought about installing a cam cleat to quickly secure the downhaul. I did not want a Harken or Schaefer cleat for a location I knew would be bathed in saltwater. Also, aesthetically, a modern cam cleat would clash with bronze deck hardware. And, it needed to have an integral fairlead to capture the line in place because the cleat and line ends up under the sail when its down on the deck.
A couple years ago, I read a review in WoodenBoat magazine extolling the quality of hand-made bronze marine hardware JM Reineck and Son. I sent away for the catalog—only about 5 pages long. Jim Reineck did indeed make a bronze cam cleat with a double row of delrin ball-bearings and an integrated fair-lead. Looked perfect. I had seen a similar one used for the same purpose on another boat I have long admired. But it was too expensive. I lusted for it for about a year. I kept looking at it in the catalog. Finally, I could resist the temptation no longer. I called Jim Reineck. He was very personable and answered all my questions. I gave in and ordered it. It arrived a couple weeks ago and it is in fact a gorgeous piece of hardware. But, it’s not bling. It’s got a real job. It’s well made, tough, and is designed for combat. I installed it last week. I have not had a chance to use it under sail but I have practiced with it at the dock. I think it’s going to work out well. Still not as convenient as a furler. But, it’s a simple solution for simple system.
And I mention a small thing for those who might want to but can't seem to break away from a furler. Read "Gyspy Moth Circles the World." In 1966-67, Francis Chichester sailed his 53' ketch around the world single-handed via the great capes with hank on sails. He was 66 years old. No GPS. No electronic auto pilot. No electronic winches. No furlers. He was a tough ol' bird, true enough. But, we can sail boats half that size if it's important to us. By the way, its a great book too if you enjoy a real sea yarn. Gyspy Moth IV was a terrible boat. A real hell-bitch. He had no fondness for her that's for sure.
If you are interested in how we installed the downhaul cleat you can click here for more info. https://farreachvoyages.wordpress.com/2 ... /#more-953
- Attachments
-
- 95CB3CAE-A501-4E20-AC8E-2FD92F1A1E69.jpeg (660.41 KiB) Viewed 809 times
-
- 0E407D3F-A378-4E5C-AE66-AAEBDD56072A.jpeg (785.81 KiB) Viewed 809 times
-
- 2DCEFCD0-2598-4FBE-84BB-80C423FA290E.jpeg (703.17 KiB) Viewed 809 times
Re: JIB DOWNHAUL
Nice ...especially when sailing into a marina.
AUL
I also use a jib downhaul. The zip off bonnet you referenced is of great interest. Looking to get a new jib in the future and was considering a reefing one that would be a 130 and reef to a working jib. Is there any way you might post some picture of the zip off bonnet?
Steve
Wondering why we are all not out sailing now?
Wondering why we are all not out sailing now?
-
- Posts: 3621
- Joined: Oct 6th, '08, 07:30
- Location: S/V Far Reach: CD 36 #61 www.farreachvoayges.net www.farreachvoyages.com
Re: JIB DOWNHAUL
Hi Steve. The sail is at home. So, should not be too hard to get some pictures posted. But, I would mention two things:
1. While I like the Doyle sails the ocean series cloth is super stiff. I can see real advantages to a softer lay like some sailmakers use. Not such a big deal if the headsail will be on a furler. But a sail that never really softens is tough to reef, to get into a go bag, or a sail bag.
2. With a smaller headsail like on a CD 25 a set of reef points might be a much simpler choice. There is a heck of a lot of material in the bunt of my sail at nearly 400 sqft if I used reef pints. Not so much in your sail. I like the zip off bunt and it's very practical but all the bugs aren't worked out yet. I'm almost there. With a softer lay it would be perfect.
I'll mention more when I post the pics.
John
1. While I like the Doyle sails the ocean series cloth is super stiff. I can see real advantages to a softer lay like some sailmakers use. Not such a big deal if the headsail will be on a furler. But a sail that never really softens is tough to reef, to get into a go bag, or a sail bag.
2. With a smaller headsail like on a CD 25 a set of reef points might be a much simpler choice. There is a heck of a lot of material in the bunt of my sail at nearly 400 sqft if I used reef pints. Not so much in your sail. I like the zip off bunt and it's very practical but all the bugs aren't worked out yet. I'm almost there. With a softer lay it would be perfect.
I'll mention more when I post the pics.
John
Last edited by John Stone on Dec 3rd, '17, 20:12, edited 1 time in total.
Re: JIB DOWNHAUL
Hi John,
Thank you. Looking forward to seeing how you did it and any other comments you may share. The idea of using reef points and a second tack to down haul the sail seemed to be the obvious choice. Your description of the zip off bonnet was intriguing. Still trying to visualize how it should all work. Currently, the down haul runs aft along the stanchions to the lower shroud. It has not been entirely satisfactory, but better than going forward when you need to drop the sail. The idea of the cam cleat is interesting as well. It is just not apparent how it could be efficiently led aft to the mast area without creating something to catch my foot when going forward.
Thank you. Looking forward to seeing how you did it and any other comments you may share. The idea of using reef points and a second tack to down haul the sail seemed to be the obvious choice. Your description of the zip off bonnet was intriguing. Still trying to visualize how it should all work. Currently, the down haul runs aft along the stanchions to the lower shroud. It has not been entirely satisfactory, but better than going forward when you need to drop the sail. The idea of the cam cleat is interesting as well. It is just not apparent how it could be efficiently led aft to the mast area without creating something to catch my foot when going forward.
Steve
Wondering why we are all not out sailing now?
Wondering why we are all not out sailing now?
-
- Posts: 3621
- Joined: Oct 6th, '08, 07:30
- Location: S/V Far Reach: CD 36 #61 www.farreachvoayges.net www.farreachvoyages.com
Re: JIB DOWNHAUL
I had to edit this since it was nonsensical in a few places. Sorry.
Steve
You can seize the low friction ring to the tack shackle or anything else handy that’s near by.
Usually, I am on the foredeck since I can't see lowering the jib from anywhere, well except maybe at the mast. With the genoa at full hoist I can stand at the mast to release the halyard. The end of the downhaul is long enough that I can hold it in my hand at the same time. Most times, I have a turn on the winch with the halyard. Then, I take a step or two or three forward—whatever is required—let the halyard slide through my hand while I pull on the downhaul. Or I might just let go the halyard and start hand over handing the downhaul to keep up. The nice thing about the cam-cleat is by pulling the halyard to the starboard side I can snap it into the cam cleat. By snapping it to the left it is pulled out of the cam cleat but is “captured” by the fairlead so I can snap it back into the cam-cleat if desired. I can do that from a reasonable wide area on the foredeck. In other words, I don’t have to be in a specific place to operate the downhaul. Of course, as you know, as soon as the jib starts dropping you have to gather it in so it doesn't land in the water. Down wind I try to blanket the Jib behind the main and usually it drops right down onto the deck.
There is no way around going to the foredeck—got to gather the sail and secure it to the bulwark with sail ties and one around the sail and the bowsprit. I feel safe on the foredeck in most conditions. The 7” tall bulwarks help. But I have crawled up to the bowsprit and hooked in a safety line when the situation required it. I have been scared sh#tless a couple times too—at night off shore when the wind and seas were up and it was dark--I was probably wondering how much a Harken furler would cost! But I kind of like that feeling. I enjoy the preasure of having to depend on what I know and use my wits to sort things out. I’m not a nut or foolish, at least I don’t think so, but I like things that are hard, else why do it? If it’s easy anyone can do it and what would the challenge and reward be? I am sure that is not sounding quite the way I mean it. Anyway I am starting to ramble. In average conditions there are no heroics involved. Just certain things taking place in sequence. The key is to figure out how to make it simple, safe, and reliable.
The cam cleat is on the aft end of my bowsprit. But it could just as easily be mounted anywhere that makes sense on the foredeck. Or even somewhere near the toe rail. You could also install it on an angled teak wedge near the bow so it would angle back up towards you on the cabin top near the mast. You just have to work it out. And, I used a system similar to what you describe for a long time. It was satisfactory and could not be simpler. But, I think this new modification will improve it. Time will tell.
I’d enjoy seeing a picture of your set up too.
Steve
You can seize the low friction ring to the tack shackle or anything else handy that’s near by.
Usually, I am on the foredeck since I can't see lowering the jib from anywhere, well except maybe at the mast. With the genoa at full hoist I can stand at the mast to release the halyard. The end of the downhaul is long enough that I can hold it in my hand at the same time. Most times, I have a turn on the winch with the halyard. Then, I take a step or two or three forward—whatever is required—let the halyard slide through my hand while I pull on the downhaul. Or I might just let go the halyard and start hand over handing the downhaul to keep up. The nice thing about the cam-cleat is by pulling the halyard to the starboard side I can snap it into the cam cleat. By snapping it to the left it is pulled out of the cam cleat but is “captured” by the fairlead so I can snap it back into the cam-cleat if desired. I can do that from a reasonable wide area on the foredeck. In other words, I don’t have to be in a specific place to operate the downhaul. Of course, as you know, as soon as the jib starts dropping you have to gather it in so it doesn't land in the water. Down wind I try to blanket the Jib behind the main and usually it drops right down onto the deck.
There is no way around going to the foredeck—got to gather the sail and secure it to the bulwark with sail ties and one around the sail and the bowsprit. I feel safe on the foredeck in most conditions. The 7” tall bulwarks help. But I have crawled up to the bowsprit and hooked in a safety line when the situation required it. I have been scared sh#tless a couple times too—at night off shore when the wind and seas were up and it was dark--I was probably wondering how much a Harken furler would cost! But I kind of like that feeling. I enjoy the preasure of having to depend on what I know and use my wits to sort things out. I’m not a nut or foolish, at least I don’t think so, but I like things that are hard, else why do it? If it’s easy anyone can do it and what would the challenge and reward be? I am sure that is not sounding quite the way I mean it. Anyway I am starting to ramble. In average conditions there are no heroics involved. Just certain things taking place in sequence. The key is to figure out how to make it simple, safe, and reliable.
The cam cleat is on the aft end of my bowsprit. But it could just as easily be mounted anywhere that makes sense on the foredeck. Or even somewhere near the toe rail. You could also install it on an angled teak wedge near the bow so it would angle back up towards you on the cabin top near the mast. You just have to work it out. And, I used a system similar to what you describe for a long time. It was satisfactory and could not be simpler. But, I think this new modification will improve it. Time will tell.
I’d enjoy seeing a picture of your set up too.
-
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Apr 2nd, '15, 15:39
- Location: Typhoon Weekender #1511 - Grand Traverse Bay
Re: JIB DOWNHAUL
I took a stab at adding a jib downhaul to my Typhoon, but ran into an unanticipated problem when I tried using it: Once the jib has dropped a couple of feet and the luff of the sail starts to zig-zag, the hanks tip sideways and bind on the forestay. The harder I pull, the harder they lock on.
The sail is old and the hanks are pretty worn. Maybe they wouldn't do that if they were newer? Or sized more closely to the forestay? I'm not sure how to get around this, so for the moment I've shelved the idea.
The sail is old and the hanks are pretty worn. Maybe they wouldn't do that if they were newer? Or sized more closely to the forestay? I'm not sure how to get around this, so for the moment I've shelved the idea.
-
- Posts: 3621
- Joined: Oct 6th, '08, 07:30
- Location: S/V Far Reach: CD 36 #61 www.farreachvoayges.net www.farreachvoyages.com
Re: JIB DOWNHAUL
Hi Ben,
My hanks will sometimes do that when I am hoisting the jib, but only the last two, near the tack, as they bind a little on the tapered wire splice. I usually just jiggle the halyard up or down a couple inches and then haul away while those recalcitrant hanks continue on their merry way. I think the cause is the hanks are a little smaller juxtaposed the diameter of the wire in the area of the 14” long splice. But in your case it could be the hanks are too small or could also be the hanks are too worn.
Obviously the issue is not the downhaul. But the interface between the wire and the hanks. I’d address that first.
Don’t give up on it — it’s a very good system.
My hanks will sometimes do that when I am hoisting the jib, but only the last two, near the tack, as they bind a little on the tapered wire splice. I usually just jiggle the halyard up or down a couple inches and then haul away while those recalcitrant hanks continue on their merry way. I think the cause is the hanks are a little smaller juxtaposed the diameter of the wire in the area of the 14” long splice. But in your case it could be the hanks are too small or could also be the hanks are too worn.
Obviously the issue is not the downhaul. But the interface between the wire and the hanks. I’d address that first.
Don’t give up on it — it’s a very good system.
-
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Apr 2nd, '15, 15:39
- Location: Typhoon Weekender #1511 - Grand Traverse Bay
Re: JIB DOWNHAUL
Thanks for the encouragement, John. I probably just need to spend a little more time diagnosing the problem, although--assuming it lies with the hanks--I don't know what the solution would be other than a new sail...which I need anyways...so maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing!
-
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Nov 24th, '11, 08:53
- Location: 1975 CD25 239 Moon Shine
Re: JIB DOWNHAUL
All interesting, and I too also prefer simple hank on head sails. Just a personal preference which I have written about here before. I have often sailed alone on local and coastal sails on the east coast of Florida, and intercoastal. I have always installed and used a jib downhaul on both my previous 23 and 27 (non CD) sailboats, and this CD 25. I preferred using a 2" basic standup turning block up near the bow jib tack, also running the 1/4" line terminated with a halyard twist shackle at the jib hoist, and run aft along the stanchions, then up to the top of the cabin portside thru a bullseye to a cam cleat. Putting a surgeons knot in the cabin end keeps the end of the downhaul from getting free. The downhaul was long enough from there for full jib hoist, and I hardly ever went to the head stay when dropping the sail, especially in a blow, or anchoring, and simply head up to pull it down, controlling the genoa by snugging the off wind sheet until I have time to go forward, at my leisure. And makes a quick re-hoist easy too. But I do not stop there. I do the exact same thing for a mainsail downhaul, as it keeps me off the top of the cabin. A sail can not run up the mast if you have it snugged down to a cam cleat. I leave my normal mast mounted halyard winches at the mast for occasional use, and topping lift for poles, or a wind scoop. I believe in and use stand up turning blocks installed at the bottom of the mast, for both raising and lowering not only the jib, but likewise, the mainsail in the same manner, to cam cleats or stoppers just forward of the (2) winches on the port and starboard top of the cabin. It is likely that the larger boats might be better off under larger working sails at the mast mounted halyard winches, but for me in smaller boats, I would much rather work from the cockpit and not go forward alone when ever possible on most days. Not only that, but all the nice ladies we have had sail with us were happy to haul sails up and down from the cockpit and it made sense to them after one time. I did the tie downs. And to show how lazy I really am, I also believe in a Boom Gallows set the right height to clear a tight mainsheet boom position sailing to windward, and designed to be a perfect height for resting the boom end when the topping lift is slacked, with the sail pulled down. Plus the boom gallows mount is often a good grab point underway. I sail for fun, and like to make it easy.
BobC
BobC
BobC
Citrus Springs, Florida
Citrus Springs, Florida