QUESTIONS ABOUT YOUR BOATYARD

[Cathy Monaghan]

Click on the link below for the rates at the boat yard in NJ where we keep our boat.

http://lockwoodboatworks.com/rates/

[John Stone]

Thanks Kathy. Does not look like you can do your own work. Are you happy with the boatyard?

[wsonntag]

Just as a for-what-its-worth, my Surprise, CD31 is out of commission for the first time in 20 years, well secured in a shed, mast stored while I'm on international assignment. She's safe, dry, stripped of all loose gear, engine secured etc. The $3600 per year seems right to me when I think of the boat from across the globe for now. I do miss her though! As far as DIY, I have been told unequivocally that I'm expected to be on-site twirling turnbuckles, bending cotter pins when she is re-stepped, relaunched.

Cheers!

[Sea Hunt Video]

The $3600 per year seems right

That has to be a typo $300/month safe in a shed WHERE

[Cathy Monaghan]

Thanks Kathy. Does not look like you can do your own work. Are you happy with the boatyard?

Hi John,

Anyone can do their own work at this boat yard and most do, including us. But when we do have them work for us, they do good work. We've have good luck with them anyway, I can't speak for anyone else.

-Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[John Stone]

Now that we are out of the boat yard ... the rest of the story.

Why the original post? The short answer: We have noticed a trend here in NC boatyards. You pay extra to work on your own boat. That's right. The boatyard makes money off your labor. From the answers provided to my question, I gather this is not a common practice in other parts of the country.

For a longer answer:

When we completed the 6 year rebuild of the Far Reach we moved her into a boatyard about 35 miles away. Nice, clean, good security. The yard manager was outstanding. We were there for a month. Could not have been a better experience. I think we paid about $5 a foot plus $30 a month for electricity. I assembled the new mast there. I completed the splicing for the new rig and we stepped the new mast and launched the boat. I recommended the yard to everyone I met.

A year later, after our passage to the West Indies, we went back to the same yard to address the bubbling Awlgrip paint. We needed to repaint the boat ourselves. But the old yard manager was gone. The owners, which had owned the yard before but were operating a separate yard in FL were now relocated to our boatyard. They had established a fee rate to work on your own boat. The whole thing was/is on a sliding scale. It was ridiculous. It was something like an additional $22 a day if you worked on your boat for less than seven days a month. It was $18 a day if you worked on your boat from 7-14 days etc. Using this scale, for the work we planned to do, our rates would go up 250 percent if we worked on our own boat.

When the old manager was there the yard was full of boats. Now it was less than 1/4 full. Hmmmm.

So I talked to the new yard manager. "How do you know if we are working on the boat?" "We charge you if we see your car there." "What if I just stopped by to pick up tools or sit inside and read a book?" Uhhhhh, no answer. I suggested I would submit a log of my time working. "Too hard for us to keep track of that." We tried negotiating. We got a small concession. We could work on the boat for an hour a day and not be charged. But there was tension. The staff had an air of snarkiness about them. I hated being there. The whole idea of a boatyard charging us extra to work on our own boat seemed immoral and unethical. They were making money off our labor. There were a few other incidents with the very unknowlegable yard manager. Finally, we had had it. We went back to the owners and asked for a meeting. We said we were moving. We had a arragned to move the boat to a separate yard in the complex that does not charge a DIY fee. I explained the current status and environment was unacceptable to us and without changes I could no longer recommend their yard. I showed them text messages from people asking if they should bring their boat to this yard. "What do you think I am going to tell them?" They finally agreed to wave our DIY fees. We agreed to an additional $25 a month to allow for their claim that boat owners performing DIY work used the bathrooms more and threw more trash in the dumpster, which cost them more. So, some compromise was made which is often necessary to strike a palatable deal.

In the end it worked out for us. We got the Far Reach painted. Once we finally got the DIY fees dropped we more enjoyed being there. There was still some tension but it was minor. I thought they were foolish to try to implement such an obvious attempt to squeeze money from owners. But, I also appreciated they negotiated, finally, in a reasonable manner. And they stuck to the deal in a cordial transparent manner. We both won in the end and that is what a good deal is--it's good for everyone. They got a boat owner who was responsible, kept a clean work area, and paid the bill on time. We got a safe place to work on our boat.

I don't understand the mindset of charging someone to work on one's own boat. I think boat owners that agree to this are asking for trouble in the long run. The only way I can possibly understand it is if boatyard is popular for the yard performing work on owners boats and by accepting a DIY boat they would not have room for another boat that wanted yard performed work. But that was/is not the case. The yard is currently a quarter to half full maybe and the boat yard is doing almost no work on the boats. Owners are doing it, as you would expect. But they are paying DIY fees.

Would I go back to this yard? Yes, but only if they agreed to wave the DIY fees.

So what is the moral to the story. I think it is to negotiate. In a calm logical manner. Be prepared to take your business elsewhere if possible or to leave the yard if negotiation does not work. Also, do what you can to stay the heck out of boatyards in the first place. Furthermore, having a boat on a trailer is a huge advantage. Being able to take your boat home to work on it solves many problems associated with a boatyard. That Alberg 30 looks better to me all the time. We have even begun to consider buying a small lot and building a butler building on it to house the boat for our own work. Move my small wood shop there. Have a secure indoor facility to work on the boat for major projects and a way to store the Far Reach out of harms way if we wanted to pursue non-sailing activities for a year or two. Or rent out the space for RV storage if we are sailing. All things to consider.

I can say one thing without hesitation. I am very happy to have the Far Reach in the water and out of the boatyard.

[gates_cliff]

I've never heard of a yard that charged owners for working on their own boat! I've known of yards that did not allow DIY, and some that actually encouraged it. My yard has no problem with DIY, but does do bottom painting, fiberglass repair, etc.

I believe I posted about my experience with them doing quite a bit of topside work on my boat, the result is good but it took them forever, was never quite sure why. They do charge an additional fee for dry storage in addition to the annual slip fee. This year I plan to have my boat hauled after Thanksgiving and put back in, in February. When I was working in Georgia for a few years I only got back home a couple of times a month so had my boat hauled and stored longer.

There is an excellent mechanic that rents office/shop space at the marina but isn't associated with the marina at all. I've had them do number of jobs and they are always reasonable, honest, stay within their original estimate. This year had a new cutless bearing and shaft installed.

There's a guy who lives on his boat on the same dock where I am that is a true shipwright and works mostly on high end boats but occasionally does some work for people that have their boats in the marina.

I'm sorry, I digressed way too much. I've been in 3 different marinas in the same vicinity over the past 40+ years and all three have allowed DIY without any charge. I corresponded with Moctrams a few years ago asking about his marina and visited there, great place but it would have added an hour drive each way for me. The one I'm in now is about 40-60 minute drive from my house (depending on the DC traffic), which is the closest to where I live and to be on the bay.

I do like your idea of purchasing a piece of land and building a small shop/storage facility. Have often dreamed of it myself.

[Sea Hunt Video]

John S.:

If I understand your most recent post correctly, when boiled down to its essence the boatyard was charging a $22/day fee for a DIY boater because the DIY boater probably used the boatyard's bathroom and used their trash cans to dispose of trash.

I know there are less and less choices for boatyards these days but that boatyard's explanation and justification sound really ridiculous - assuming I understand the facts.

I can think of additional fees that they could charge DIY boaters:

1. Parking fee (hourly rate) for your car being parked in the yard's parking lot while you work on your boat. If you don't want to pay the fee you can park "off site".

2. Jack stand fee for use of jack stands. If you don't want to pay the fee, too bad. You must use our jack stands because we don't know how "reliable" your jack stands are.

3. Materials fee. You must buy ALL materials from the boatyard facility - paint, brushes, scrapers, oils, cleaners, rags, etc. If you bring your own materials we will assess a penalty.

4. Entrance and exit fee. There is a charge to enter the facility (a guard has to open the gate; this costs us $$) and a separate charge to exit the facility (different guard, same costs). This fee is assessed whether you drive on the yard and park on the yard or park "off site" and walk onto the yard. Of course, the entrance fee to walk on to (or walk off of) the yard is $10/day each way. It is only $5/day each way if you drive. But there is still the parking fee (hourly rate) if you park on boatyard property.

Frankly, John I think a $22/day DIY fee is more than reasonable considering the boatyard could charge the above fees as well. Instead of negotiating with them for a lower fee, you should be thanking them for their kindness in "waiving" the above four (4) fees.

On a slightly more serious note, I purchased a trailer for S/V Bali Ha'i in part for exactly this reason. She is at home during "H" season. I can work on her at my leisure (unless the temps are too high) and my DIY yard fee is a cold Guinness at the end of the day.

[Sailhmlri]

$1980 for the winter
I could work on my own boat no charge.