New Beta Marine 25 is still smoking; a warning

[jen1722terry]

Hi Members,

Need some opinions:

Is it normal for a new engine to smoke? As many of you know, we had a new Beta-Marine 25 installed in our CD 31 last winter at Derecktor/Robbinhood (D/R) in Maine. Numerous issues kept us from starting our summer cruise until August 11. On August 18, D/R had to send a mechanic over to us at Northeast Harbor, ME to again adjust the throttle. The throttle would not advance to full rated rpms (3600), which seemed to be causing some smoking. The result after the mechanic's visit was that we could get full rpm, but had to hold the throttle forward or it would slip back to 3300-3400. We cleaned all smoke residue off of the transom.

Since August 18, we have done three long says of mostly motoring, Each day we would run the engine up to full rpm for 20 minutes to keep the internal engine clean. We again have more smoke residue on the transom.

So, our question is: is some smoke normal for a new engine?

More generally, we're advising all of you that have the Merriman Yacht Specialties (MYS) steering pedestals to consider replacing it if your are re-powering with a Beta Marine engine. It is this pedestal, no longer made, that necessitated jury-rigging the throttle linkage on the engine to allow the engine to rev to max rpm and to allow normal throttle lever travel. Note that, when the BM-25 was first installed, the shifter and throttle levers worked backwards, a safety and resale issue. BM supplied a part to remedy this, but the throttle lever then traveled far backwards and dangerously (in our opinion) close to the steering wheel. This is what caused D/R to attempt to fabricate a part to address this issue. We're again not sure if the part is functioning properly because of the smoking on the transom. We'll know more after some more testing this weekend. We'll be hauling next week.

We're very disappointed with the new engine and the installation so far. We've paid D/R nearly $30,000 over the last 8 months (including storage, shaft, new prop that had to be re-pitched (a long delay) and a bilge pump) and we're still not sure the engine is working properly. We believed we should have been advised early on that the MYS steering pedestal would complicate the engine installation and impede good engine performance. Then we could have had the option to replace the pedestal or just not get the new engine and fix the old one. Retro-fitting another pedestal would be another costly repair and we're presently out of money until the spring.

So, fair-warning that, if you want to repower with a Beta Marine engine and want to keep the ld MYS pedestal, maybe consider another manufacturer such as Westerbeke or Yanmar.

Happy sailing and very best of luck to our southern members in the storm. Contact us if you need emergency housing.

Jenn and Terry

[pete faga]

Does beta in NC have a explanation why the engine is smoking?
Pete

[bottomscraper]

As for "but had to hold the throttle forward or it would slip back to 3300-3400" there may be a cheap and easy fix. You can buy a control cable brake. They run about $25. Teleflex and others make them. It is an adjustable clamp that just pinches the cable a bit to add some friction. You can install it yourself. It may take a few tries to get the friction adjusted correctly.

Here is a link to Hamlton Marine:
https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/product ... 1321.html

Worth reading about smoke:
http://www.cruisingworld.com/how/read-t ... ke-signals

[jen1722terry]

Thanks, Rich.

We do have the control cable break installed and we know how to adjust it to add friction. But this does not solve the issue of not
being able to get the throttle all the way forward to max rpm. The Director/Robbinhood mechanic did have it working for a while by adjusting the adjustment barrel that he fabricated n the engine, but that may not be working as well as he would have liked.

Again, if we were advised to replace the old MYS pedestal and control levers when the job was bid, we would have avoided the hassle. We're wondering what to do next. We're still not sure if some smoke is normal for a brand new engine.

Thanks again

Jenn and Terry

[Cathy Monaghan]

A prop that's too large or not pitched correctly can cause a lot of black smoke. So the prop may need to be repitched to match the new engine. Anyway, it's worth looking into.


Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Jim Walsh]

My Universal M-25XPB was not "smokey" when new, nor is it now. Do I see an almost invisible puff upon starting, yes. My previous experience as an owner of new diesels has been essentially the same with both a Yanmar and a Westerbeke.
Universal "recommends a prop that will allow the engine to turn 3,000 rpm underway at full throttle" . I top out at 2,700 to perhaps 2,750 rpm. I mentioned this to my mechanic and he asked if I reached hull speed, which I do easily at about 2,200 rpm. Increasing the RPM's gives me a little more speed, about 7.4 knots at 2,500 RPM's with a spotlessly clean bottom, but the engine is laboring and the stern just starts squatting. He said everything was just fine but I could spend several hundred bucks on a new prop if I ever wanted to increase the the RPM's by two or three hundred. He stressed I would gain no performance, just a couple hundred RPM's. He also stressed that going over the manufacturers reccommended RPM's is dangerous but being a couple hundred RPM's less will have no ill effects.
As you are aware I also have a Yacht Specialties pedestal. This refurbished replacement was rigged internally somewhat different from my original unit. Rather than solving the "backwards" throttle issue I just decided to live with it and perhaps fabricate the bracket needed to correct it during haul out. I don't know if I'll bother. It took me about five minutes to get used to it as is.
I also have a throttle cable brake. My original throttle cable had one also. I still have the original brake in use on my new throttle cable. I've adjusted it twice but I still need to adjust it once more as my throttle creeps when going 2,500 RPM's for more than a couple minutes. It's fine at slower speeds.

In your situation, perhaps having a local "pro" take a look at your installation and doing a short sea trial before the season ends would be money well spent.

[jen1722terry]

Thanks to Jim and Cathy for the advice. Always appreciated.

For Cathy: the new prop has already been re pitched once after the first June sea-trial. Not sure if we'll have to again re pitch it.

Note to all: Nautilus did the re-pitching and they were very slow in their turnaround. Director/Robbinhood (D/R) reportedly threatened to withhold all future business to get our prop back, and it still took nearly a month in the summer to get the re-pitched prop.

To Jim: We can send photos of the custom adapter the D/R made if you like. It's pretty simple and somewhat adjustable. You can talk to Neil Collins at D/R for info how how he designed the adapter. Again, Beta supplied a part to correct the reversed throttle (which we can also photo for you) and D/R fabricated the adapter to address the throttle position at idle, which we thought was too close to the wheel. If this adapter proves to be problematic, We could either have the throttle lever bent into a forward bending curve or have a new lever made. We have to take them off this winter to get them re-chromed anyway.

Sadly, we have to haul this week, as we have to get over to Nova Scotia for some personal business. Otherwise, we would take the boat to Rockland and have Johansen Marine, a very experienced Beta Marine dealer, check the installation. We could do this in the spring, as the warranty will still be in force. They've been quite busy so it may have to wait until spring. D/R has offered to pay for this second opinion, which we appreciate.

Thanks again to all for taking the time to share advice and experiences.

Still keeping and eye on Jose, who now appears to have a potential to head up the east coast. Weird things, hurricanes.

Jenn and Terry

[Maine Sail]

Each day we would run the engine up to full rpm for 20 minutes to keep the internal engine clean. We again have more smoke residue on the transom.

Any time you are trying to push your boat up and over her bow wave, beyond her natural hull speed, you will create a smokey exhaust and put soot on the transom..

Twenty minutes per day at 100% throttle seems excessive? Did Stanley actually tell you to do this? I have 6-10K hour motors out there that have never run at full bore, just recommended cruise RPM and they are chugging right along..

[jen1722terry]

Thanks to Maine Sail and all the others.
We heard from Beta Marine today and they think that a bit of smoking is normal for a new engine. They also said that we can run the engine at any rpm we choose, it's really just a question of fuel economy.

They did not directly address whether occasional hi-rev running was preferable to extend engine life. At this point, we think we'll defer to the wisdom of Maine Sail, who's always been generous and spot-on with his hard won experience.

Still, it's nice to have all that extra power in and emergency, or running into a fierce header.

Thanks again,

Jenn and Terry