Flax Packing

[Bill]

Okay

My owners manual states not to use synthetic (sp) or teflon packing. It says to use waxed flax (1/4"). Is that the fact?

thanks again to all

Bill



cd25d@rhapsodysails.com

[Brian Hickson]

Bill,

I don't know the answer to your question, but I just ordered a packing kit from Spartan Marine [800 325-3287]. The cost is $7.00, plus shipping. Apparently, the only item in the kit is several turns of packing. The only info they needed from me was the size of the shaft, which is 1".

Brian

[Tom]

Okay

My owners manual states not to use synthetic (sp) or teflon packing. It says to use waxed flax (1/4"). Is that the fact?

thanks again to all

Bill

Bill, Did it actually say NOT to use teflon or did it just say to use flax? When the CDs were built there wasn't any teflon packing so the manuals would all say to use flax. If it actually says not to use teflon I think I'd contact the manufacturer and find out if that's still the recommendaton. Teflon has pretty well proved itself with many happy users on this board including me. If there really is a reason not to use it, we'd all like to know what it is. I've had teflon in my 31 for coming up on 10 years and haven't had problem one.



TomCambria@mindspring.com

[Bill]

Hi Tom

I agree with the technological advances, but the manual states "All CDY stuffing boxes use 1/4" waxed flax packing. Do not use synthetic or teflon packing". This is the manual for CD's from the Typhoon thru the CD 30K.

I have done this before on a Catalina, but this is the first time on Rhapsody and I am positive that the packing that is there is orginal (from 1984).

Would it do any good to contact Robinhood Marine? The last time I did that they didnt want to talk to me.

Thanks for the reply

Bill

Okay

My owners manual states not to use synthetic (sp) or teflon packing. It says to use waxed flax (1/4"). Is that the fact?

thanks again to all

Bill

Bill, Did it actually say NOT to use teflon or did it just say to use flax? When the CDs were built there wasn't any teflon packing so the manuals would all say to use flax. If it actually says not to use teflon I think I'd contact the manufacturer and find out if that's still the recommendaton. Teflon has pretty well proved itself with many happy users on this board including me. If there really is a reason not to use it, we'd all like to know what it is. I've had teflon in my 31 for coming up on 10 years and haven't had problem one.

cd25d@rhapsodysails.com

[Tom]

Hi Tom

I agree with the technological advances, but the manual states "All CDY stuffing boxes use 1/4" waxed flax packing. Do not use synthetic or teflon packing". This is the manual for CD's from the Typhoon thru the CD 30K.

I have done this before on a Catalina, but this is the first time on Rhapsody and I am positive that the packing that is there is orginal (from 1984).

Would it do any good to contact Robinhood Marine? The last time I did that they didnt want to talk to me.

Thanks for the reply

Bill

Well, I don't know what to think. If Robinhood is uncooperative you might try the engine manufacturer rather than the boat manufacturer (now Robinhood). The CD manual is wrong about Hurth transmissions, i.e., they say to leave the transmission in forward when sailing without the engine running. This is a definitive no no and will eat your clutch plates if you do it. So we don't want to give the CD manual the same authority as the Bible or anything. On the other hand I'm basically a traditionalist and there wouldn't be anything wrong with using waxed flax, you just have to tolerate the water dripping into the bilge. You might also contact the manufacturer of the teflon packing and see what they say about the CD instructions. There may be something unique about the CD stuffing boxes, but I can't imagine what it would be. They look like every other stuffing box I've ever seen. In the early days of fiberglass, wooden boat builders used to tell us that fiberglass boats would get brittle with age and crack apart.

Not to put this warning in the same category necessarily, but it seems to me logically that what you're trying to do is squeeze something around the shaft to keep the water from coming in. Now what could possibly go wrong with a system like this? Well, it could develop friction and eat the shaft as flax packing certainly sometimes does. If that were the case you'd generate some heat, but these teflon packings run absolutely cold so it seems unlikely. They also could pack down with time and start to leak. But I don't know why a Cape Dory would be any different than any other boat on that score and in almost 10 years mine hasn't. I can't think of anything else that might go wrong - can you? So I lean toward the notion that the CD manual was printed in 1984 when teflon packing was new and perhaps untried and therefore they took the traditional view. I'm no kind of authority on this and I wouldn't want to be the guy who encoraged you to ignore the warning in the manual and then have your boat sink out from underneath you. You might also get ahold of a Robinhood manual on their new boats and see if the same warning is still in there. Or ask other boat manufacturers who are more cooperative. Don't forget it's relatively easy to change the packing from one to the other if you change your mind. Some people on this board also report using a combination of both. Several rings of teflon following by one ring of flax.

I hope this discussion helps you, maybe someone else will jump in with some insight. There is a lot of knowledge on this board. If I were repacking mine, I wouldn't hesitate to use the teflon packing, but perhaps that only shows I'm a fool.

Okay

My owners manual states not to use synthetic (sp) or teflon packing. It says to use waxed flax (1/4"). Is that the fact?

thanks again to all

Bill

Bill, Did it actually say NOT to use teflon or did it just say to use flax? When the CDs were built there wasn't any teflon packing so the manuals would all say to use flax. If it actually says not to use teflon I think I'd contact the manufacturer and find out if that's still the recommendaton. Teflon has pretty well proved itself with many happy users on this board including me. If there really is a reason not to use it, we'd all like to know what it is. I've had teflon in my 31 for coming up on 10 years and haven't had problem one.

TomCambria@mindspring.com

[Bill]

Thanks again for your comments Tom. I'll give someone a call. And you are correct that this is a great and informative BB. None other like it.

Fair winds

Bill




cd25d@rhapsodysails.com

[Larry DeMers]

You are not a fool, or we all are then. I have used three rings of flax for the first 5 years of ownership, then switched over to one ring of flax, one rings-worth of teflon goop, followed by another ring of flax. This runs drip free and cold as a witches..well, you get the idea! I have inspected the shaft under the packing..every year, and there is no marking at all, except for what was caused by a dry flax packing long ago. Some dirty water, apparently with some mud dissolved in it, got sucke dup in the shaft, and the abrasive did take the even shine off the shaft. But that was noted and written down in the log on our second year aboard.

So I would tell you to use the teflon product, but keep an eye on it for a year anyway, and decide for yourself if there is a problem with it. Temperature is the main criteria that you can check easily. When the engine is running and the boat has been moving for an hour or so, **carefully** place your hand on the packing gland, and note the temp/ It should be the ambient water temp. At the end of the year, check the shaft under the packing for problems.

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Hi Tom

I agree with the technological advances, but the manual states "All CDY stuffing boxes use 1/4" waxed flax packing. Do not use synthetic or teflon packing". This is the manual for CD's from the Typhoon thru the CD 30K.

I have done this before on a Catalina, but this is the first time on Rhapsody and I am positive that the packing that is there is orginal (from 1984).

Would it do any good to contact Robinhood Marine? The last time I did that they didnt want to talk to me.

Thanks for the reply

Bill

Well, I don't know what to think. If Robinhood is uncooperative you might try the engine manufacturer rather than the boat manufacturer (now Robinhood). The CD manual is wrong about Hurth transmissions, i.e., they say to leave the transmission in forward when sailing without the engine running. This is a definitive no no and will eat your clutch plates if you do it. So we don't want to give the CD manual the same authority as the Bible or anything. On the other hand I'm basically a traditionalist and there wouldn't be anything wrong with using waxed flax, you just have to tolerate the water dripping into the bilge. You might also contact the manufacturer of the teflon packing and see what they say about the CD instructions. There may be something unique about the CD stuffing boxes, but I can't imagine what it would be. They look like every other stuffing box I've ever seen. In the early days of fiberglass, wooden boat builders used to tell us that fiberglass boats would get brittle with age and crack apart.

Not to put this warning in the same category necessarily, but it seems to me logically that what you're trying to do is squeeze something around the shaft to keep the water from coming in. Now what could possibly go wrong with a system like this? Well, it could develop friction and eat the shaft as flax packing certainly sometimes does. If that were the case you'd generate some heat, but these teflon packings run absolutely cold so it seems unlikely. They also could pack down with time and start to leak. But I don't know why a Cape Dory would be any different than any other boat on that score and in almost 10 years mine hasn't. I can't think of anything else that might go wrong - can you? So I lean toward the notion that the CD manual was printed in 1984 when teflon packing was new and perhaps untried and therefore they took the traditional view. I'm no kind of authority on this and I wouldn't want to be the guy who encoraged you to ignore the warning in the manual and then have your boat sink out from underneath you. You might also get ahold of a Robinhood manual on their new boats and see if the same warning is still in there. Or ask other boat manufacturers who are more cooperative. Don't forget it's relatively easy to change the packing from one to the other if you change your mind. Some people on this board also report using a combination of both. Several rings of teflon following by one ring of flax.

I hope this discussion helps you, maybe someone else will jump in with some insight. There is a lot of knowledge on this board. If I were repacking mine, I wouldn't hesitate to use the teflon packing, but perhaps that only shows I'm a fool.

Bill, Did it actually say NOT to use teflon or did it just say to use flax? When the CDs were built there wasn't any teflon packing so the manuals would all say to use flax. If it actually says not to use teflon I think I'd contact the manufacturer and find out if that's still the recommendaton. Teflon has pretty well proved itself with many happy users on this board including me. If there really is a reason not to use it, we'd all like to know what it is. I've had teflon in my 31 for coming up on 10 years and haven't had problem one.

demers@sgi.com

[Tom]

Okay

My owners manual states not to use synthetic (sp) or teflon packing. It says to use waxed flax (1/4"). Is that the fact?

thanks again to all

Bill

Bill
BOATU.S. has flax packing available two ways.One type has flax packing impregnated with teflon.The other type is flax packing with lubricant. The lubricant is tallow and parafin . I will be trying out the teflon impregnated on my rudder post, when the snow lets up.Talk to you next year.
Tom



TShel11523@aol.com

[WTC]

Okay

My owners manual states not to use synthetic (sp) or teflon packing. It says to use waxed flax (1/4"). Is that the fact?

thanks again to all

Bill

Last spring I ordered new flax packing from Spartan along
with wrenches. Two (2) flax rings arrived but when attempting
to remove the old flax, three (3) rings had been installed at
the Cape Dory factory. I found a teflon impregnated 1/4" flax
at West Marine and cut a third ring. Works just fine with no
heat and NO DRIPS! My SV is a CD22D with a 1GM10 Yanmar.



wtclark@datasync.com

[Mac Taylor]

Okay

My owners manual states not to use synthetic (sp) or teflon packing. It says to use waxed flax (1/4"). Is that the fact?

thanks again to all

Bill

My packing (flax) is in need of replacing so I am reading all of these posts with much interest. But, what I need to know is; can the flax/teflon change be done while in the water?? Thanks

Mac Taylor



Mtaylor673@aol.com

[Ken Coit]

Mac,

I would have to say that it "depends." My single experience of having the packing gland spin off while underway through my own stupidity was that the rate of leaking really isn't all that bad. However, it wouldn't be hard to check without much, if any, risk. I'd suggest you get what you need to do the job and make an attempt at doing it in the water. If it looks like the flow is too great, then I'd closer her up and wait until she is on the hard. Once you start to pull the old flax, you don't really want to stop until it can go back together.

Removing the old flax was my biggest problem. I had purchased one of those corkscrew tools, but the smallest one was too large. So, I ended up squeezing it smaller with a pair of vise grips. It was quite an ordeal while working in that space. Someone suggested the use of a straightened fish hook and someone else suggested using a sheet metal screw or something similar (wallboard screw?) which would be easier to re-use.

My second problem was getting the new rounds in. The best way to do this is to put in a round and then screw the gland together to pack in the round tightly.

Anyway, my two cents worth. Let us know how it works out.

Ken
S/V Parfait
Raleigh, NC


lack of : : Okay

My owners manual states not to use synthetic (sp) or teflon packing. It says to use waxed flax (1/4"). Is that the fact?

thanks again to all

Bill

My packing (flax) is in need of replacing so I am reading all of these posts with much interest. But, what I need to know is; can the flax/teflon change be done while in the water?? Thanks

Mac Taylor

parfait@nc.rr.com