Still standed in Robbinhood, ME with our new, broken, engine

[jen1722terry]

Hello CDers!

Hope you're all well into your summer sailing. Sadly, we're still not.

Some of you may have read about the problems with the installation of our new Beta Marine 25 here at Direcktor/Robbinhood. The main issue was a long wait to get our new propeller properly pitched so the new engine would run at the specified speeds without smoking.

Well, other issues have developed. Some are recurring, some new. Our email to the marina is pasted in below. We're losing patience and looking for recommendations for another yard that can properly install a new Beta Marine engine for us or, at least, inspect our new engine for water damage and proper installation.

Happy sailing to all. Wish we could join you.

Jenn and Terry

*************************************************************************************************************************

"Hello again,

After hearing that our boat with the new Beta Marine 25 had finally had a successful sea trial after re-pitching the new prop (which took over three weeks to do), we returned to the boat today at 2:30 PM, Sunday, July 23, 2017.

As soon as we boarded the boat, the auto-bilge pump began running and would not shut off. On examining the bilge, we noticed it partially flooded with freshwater coolant (light green). The bilge pump, a Rule 3700 with a Water Witch switch, (both brand new in 2016) has worked flawlessly to date. We tested the pump and switch shortly after launching in June '17. The bilge pump would not shut off today, so we removed the fuse (it is direct-wired to the battery). We will check the bilge periodically thru the night tonight. Please ensure that the Water Witch bilge pump switch is cleaned of contaminants from then engine coolant and that the pump is still working properly.

The newly installed Whale manual bilge pump (installed by Derecktor Robbinhood (D/R) over the winter) would not drain the bilge below about 2 inches. In the past, the old Whale manual pump would always drain the bilge to less than 1/2 inch. We note that this pump was replaced at the recommendation of D/R over the winter.

We opened the engine room cover. The engine sump was flooded to the brim with green coolant/freshwater, as was the small sump under the stuffing box. The engine was wet. This flooding has been a recurrent issue since the new engine was sea trialed in June. We feel this recurrent flooding may have damaged our brand new engine and other electronics in the engine room and bilge. We are deeply concerned.

The shift lever appears to be stuck in reverse and will not go into neutral or forward. Please address this issue and ensure that both do not work backwards as was the case at the initial June sea trial.

We have been waiting for four weeks to accept the new engine and start our summer cruise. If D/R is unable to deliver the new engine in reasonable running order, undamaged, without repeated coolant leaks, shifter throttle cable issues and other issues, we reserve the right to reject the engine and installation, have the boat towed to another yard and have another engine installed. Any additional expenses would, we expect, be paid by D/R. We would also like the warranty extended to reflect the late delivery date and possible flooding damage.

Also, we would appreciate it, when D/R employees operate our boat, they reinstall the helm and wheel covers.

This new engine and propeller should have been safely operational in June. July is winding down and we are still stuck here in Robbinhood with a leaking and possibly damaged engine with unsafe shifter/throttle cables and, possibly, a damaged bilge pump.

We look forward to to discussing the above with you on Monday morning, July 24, 2017.

Jennifer and Terry""

[Maine_Buzzard]

Wow. A surreal, frustrating tale. Very sorry to hear that you have reached this point, and knowing that you are $15-20k in on this is also horrifying.

How is the contract written? Any completion milestones or performance requirements tied to disbursement?

Reversed shifting is a 5 minute fix, and should have been caught long before sea trial. The volume of coolant present in the tray and bilge is frightening and overheating is another concern for the engine too.

Based on publication of your email, it's likely that you are done with the current yard and ready to pull the plug. Sorry that you have to go to such lengths here.

Please let us know the resolution.

[Joe CD MS 300]

It's a little scary that a yard like Robinhood could botch an installation so badly. How could they miss such a significant coolant leak?

The only yard I have used is Johanson. It's been 12 seasons now. They did a repower about 6-7 years back on my MS 300. I think I made that recommendation last year when you were first looking foe a yard.

[Sea Hunt Video]

It's a little scary that a yard like Robinhood could botch an installation so badly. How could they miss such a significant coolant leak?

Joe:

It's not Robinhood Marine any more. I think that may be a big part of the problem. It's Derecktor Marine which is apparently a large shipyard co. with locations in Florida, NY and Maine. I suspect (although I have no direct knowledge) that some or many of the Robinhood staff are no longer working there. The quality of the work has suffered accordingly. Robinhood was a "one off". None other like it; Andy Vavolotis cared about his sailboats, his customers and his reputation. Derecktor apparently cares about making money and getting on to the next job. They are into "mega yachts" not class sailboats from a bygone era.

Jen and Jerry, I would recommend you make it very clear to Derecktor that you hold them directly responsible for all damage to the engine, your Cape Dory, electricals, etc. I would also not hesitate to direct them to this website and this thread. It is my understanding that a lot of Cape Dory owners have used Robinhood Marina for ALL of their sailing needs including maintenance, upgrades, fuel, dockage, winter storage, etc. I would think Derecktor would not want a "black eye".

Your post says you are meeting with Derecktor tomorrow morning. I would also make sure to confirm EVERYTHING in writing. While email is more immediate, there is a certain "pucker factor" that is created with the receipt of a certified/RRR letter. I would also not hesitate to make it clear to Derecktor that legal action is a very viable option.

Given the actions of Derector I would probably want to have another marina do whatever needs to be done to make you whole again. I would make it clear to Derecktor by email and a certified/RRR letter that you will look to Derecktor to reimburse you for ALL costs associated with fixing the issues they created.

I would think several (probably many) on this board would willing state that they will withhold doing business with Derecktor/Robinhood until this matter is resolved to your satisfaction.

Just out of curiosity, is Derecktor charging you dockage or storage fees while they "bumble around"

I wish you luck with this latest setback. My problems are nothing compared to what you two are experiencing this season. If I were in your boat shoes I would probably be catatonic by now. Your patience and perseverance is impressive.

[Jim Walsh]

Sorry to hear things have not gone well. I would never have expected an established yard to be capable of such unprofessional workmanship and behavior. I hope everything is quickly remedied to your complete satisfaction.

[Joe CD MS 300]

Roberto,

I was commenting more on the size of the yard by referring to "Robinhood" rather than "Derecktor / Robinhood". Any yard of that size (especially in Maine) should be able to handle a repower relatively modest repower. I also thought that Andy Vavolotis was staying on in a "consulting" basis after the purchase. Maybe that is over. In any case those types of consulting agreements are more about marketing rather than any work being done. It would also surprise me if Derecktor / Robinhood's target market at the Robinhood location was mega yachts. As far as I know the largest yachts they built in recent years were the Robinhood 36's. The mega yachts in that area would likely go to Hodgdon Yachts in East Boothbay, or Hodgdon's newly acquired location in Moddock Cove, Southport (near Booothbay), formerly the Boothbay Region Boatyard.

Jen and Jerry, speaking of Hodgdon Yachts, they would be another option although I have never used their services at any location. I have personally seen their work and the yachts they have build are truly world class. They also do work for the military.

http://hodgdonyachts.com/

If you do decide to try Johanson I would be happy to give you an introduction. Ask for their mechanic Jonesy.

Joe

[Nebe]

Don't forget... Robin Hood stole from the rich....

[jen1722terry]

Chuckle on the joke, thanks.

Update:

The yard general manager spent the day repairing the throttle and shifter. Now working well.

On the leak, it was two things: a water heater hose that had worked loose from all the coming and going in the lockers and residual antifreeze from the leak last week. All appears repaired, sumps and bilge vaccumed out and I just have to dry and clean the bilge switch. So, tomorrow we'll sea trial again and see what's up.

A note to any of you considering the Beta 25 for your 31 or 33: if you still have the Merriman Yacht Specialties pedestal as we do, the throttle/shift levers will work backwards. Beta sells an adapter for this, but the throttle will only move sternward from top center, not forward. So the adapter has to be drilled and machined to restore the normal lever action, a tricky job that takes a good mechanic some time. I can get details and send some photos for anyone interested.

Another thing: there is a small petcock drain on the engine. It is loose from the factory (the engine are shipped with no oil). This has to be tightened a lot or you'll have lots of antifreeze in your boat's nether regions. It's a hard thing to see and reach so maybe have them tighten it before they drop in the new mill.

So, at least the marina crew is really trying. We still plan to have the installation checked in a week or so at Johanson or another Beta dealer.

Rainy here and chilly. We plan to fire up our little wood stove for wine, cheese, hot stew and, who knows, maybe a bit of romance.

Cheers to all.

Jenn and Terry

[JD-MDR]

Thanks for sharing . I was really hoping things would work out with them. I only dealt with them for small things over the phone but I liked them and they were very helpful. It was really disappointing to hear all those negative responses.

[jen1722terry]

Next update:

Still working on engine coolant leaks. The yard cleaned out the engine sump and bilge and put absorbent pads in the sump.
Last night, green spots started appearing on the pads under the port side, aft part of the engine. Also water on the engine block between the starter and block/oil pan. Not sure what's up. So the yard is going to wash down the entire engine and dry it, then put more pads or white paper towels.

Thinking is loose hose clamps that have to be re-tightened after heating up the engine. We'll see. Hope it's not a leaking gasket, which may require re-torquing some engine bolts. Anyhow, stay tuned as we progress thru this install.

BTW: the prop shop that took so long to re-pitch our propeller was Nautilus. They sold us the prop (thru the yard) and finally re-pitched after 3 weeks only after the yard threatened to withdraw their business.

I'll also get the new pitch for reference of other CDers in the future.

Cloundy here in Robbinhood today. We're happy after a big breakfast at the general store and coffee/biscuits at the lovely Robbinhood Meeting House near the marina.

Cheers!

Jenn and Terry

[moctrams]

Can't understand the prop pitch mix up. When I repowered with a Beta BD722, I sent all the data regarding the boat, engine, etc. to Campbell Sailor and four weeks later at a cost of $400.00 I received the proper pitched prop and have zero problems with the prop. I had my engine replaced at Flag Harbor Marine Service in St. Leonard, MD. This was the 2nd engine replacement they had done and zero problems. The first replacement was for a 1974 Cal 29. Can't Say enough good things about Flag Harbor Marine Service.

[jen1722terry]

Thanks so much for the comments on the prop pitch.

Yes, we can't understand either why Nautilus sold our yard the wrong prop and why it took so long to re-pitch it.

Such is life.

Jenn and Terry

[Jim Walsh]

Glad to hear your positive comments. It's encouraging to have them addressing your concerns and making progress. Good luck with the remaining issues.

[jen1722terry]

Thank, Jim,

One poster asked about the correct prop pitch for a 31. We checked on this and there is no sure answer. It depends on hull shape, displacement, propeller size and shape and engine size. 31 owners who wish to re-power with a Beta engine may choose either a 20 hp or a 25, which might also affect prop pitch. We chose the 25 because it had the larger alternator. Not much of a price difference.

We were told the new prop will not back down as efficiently as the old one. So we plan to practice backing-down and prop walk today to be sure we're used to it before we go back to a marina or crowded anchorage.

First sea trial today. More later.

Jenn and Terry

[Tom Keevil]

We had a small coolant leak on our 25 hp Beta when it was first installed. You don't need to hear the entire story, but the cause was a leak where the elbow for the coolant hose screws into the bottom of the heat exchanger. The metal there is not very thick, so a bad thread leads to a leak. The solution was to drill and tap a thicker piece of metal, and weld it onto the bottom of the heat exchanger. This was done by the people who sold us the engine (we installed it more or less ourselves) for no charge. It was, however a long process to diagnose this, and caused us considerable inconvenience.