CD 28 Tanks

[Pembquist]

Fixing up my boat and I need to add a holding tank. Old holding tank was a bag I'm guessing a retrofit that was slung in the compartment just ahead of the forward bulkhead on the port side. I would like to build a fiberglass tank. The only tank on my boat is a water tank at the bow, I am considering adding more.

Can someone with a CD 28 tell me what kind of arrangement they have? I have read that some boats had water tanks under the salon berths. I am not sure where would be the best place to put a holding tank would be but I prefer to put it up front maybe under the water tank or just use the water tank as a holding tank and add new water tanks somewhere else. I don't know how much all of this would affect trim. Any advice? I am planning on buying a Lavac head. This will be for cruising in the PNW not world wide or such.

Also to put tanks under the berths I would have to cut big holes in the cabin liner, is this structural? I would plan on adding an epoxied on lip with some flathead machine screws into tapped holes to put the cut out back, I don't know if I have to worry about how many screws or not.

[adamganz]

I haven't seen other layouts from what i have but maybe the tank configuration varied by year. My 83 has two water tanks, like i believe most 28s; one on either side of the cabin under the berths. both are filled through a feed in the cockpit, although I usually run a hose directly into the cabin and fill through a large access panel in the tanks themselves.

holding tank is under vberth, access through a bronze fitting in deck above.

[rorik]

My `79 came with a 30 gallon tank under each settee for fresh, and a ~20 for waste under the forward half of the V berth.
My tanks were shot when I bought the boat.
Replaced the fresh tanks with very similar 25 gallon models from Ronco (?) in CA.
The waste tank got moved to a shelf directly outboard of the head. It's also much smaller at 13 gallons. Standard Todd model, but with relocated fittings.
Keep in mind that water weighs ~8-1/2lbs/gal and sloshes.
If I had to do it all over again - I'd glass in the bilge under the cabin sole and add a 15 gallon tank each side under the settees.

[hilbert]

I also have an older 28 that only had one water tank in the forward compartment.

I've often wondered if I could find a way to make use of WaterBricks.
These stackable containers come in either 1.6 or 3.5 gallon volumes and can also be used for foods like rice, flour, cereal, etc.
One could slap a spigot on it and put it in a frame above a sink to use with gravity feed.


In the long run, they could be more secure, hygienic and flexible than larger built in tanks. (not likely to all leak out or for all to become contaminated)
It would also be easier to bring water/food aboard by tender or dinghie.
Legendary voyages have been made with less (I'm thinking of Les Powle's 3 circumnavigations, or Tania Aebi's circumnavigation with contaminated water tanks).

Of course, it is a challenge to store square containers low in a curvy boat.

[camroll]

Have you thought about a composting toilet. Then you wouldn't have to worry about tanks, hoses, macerators etc. I have the same set up on my CD 28 as you describe and I had played around with idea of a plastic holding tank for years. Last year I put a composting toilet in in preparation for a 3 month cruise. It worked great and I have tons more storage. Good luck
Russ

[Pembquist]

You fellows with the under settee tanks could you tell me where they are located, (towards the bow or stern or centered,) and also how the waterlines are routed? I don't think I can drill a hole from under the settee into the bilge without threatening the hull so I could go forward and down into the bilge or aft and through the engine compartment.

Camroll: I did look online at some of the discussion about composting heads and at the websites of the C Head and the Natures Head and I'm a little confused by them. Maybe you can tell me about your own experience. When I read about them it sounds like you have to haul a bucket of poo and peet moss and either throw it over the side, or take it ashore to dispose of somewhere hopefully where it can finish composting, or put it in a 5 gallon bucket till that bucket is full and dispose of that bucket. Is this about right? The smell is supposed to be non existent or negligible however there has to be a vent hose leading through the deck,(I assume you use the existing dorad above the head.) The most attractive part to me would be the absence of stink that I guess you get because of dryness of the poo. The downside to me is having to empty the thing and dealing with the uncomposted poo. How do you handle this? Thoughts? The cost seems to vary from a little less to about the same as the lavac/holding tank depending on brand of toilet.

[rorik]

The fresh tanks under the settees are roughly 3-1/2' long. The tanks aft end is about 6" forward of the galley half bulkhead. The fill, vent and drain hoses exit the aft wall of the tank. The 1.5" fill runs into the lazarette and then up to the cockpit seat. The drain line runs aft, just into the engine compartment, then forward in the bilge to a manifold. Both tanks do this. The manifold has a single outlet that goes to the foot pump, then a filter and finally the sink. The vent lines run vertically inside the galley cabinets and exit above the counters in a U shape.
With the fills inside the coamings there is a much smaller chance of salt water getting in than if they're on the side deck. Vent lines ditto, and keeping them as vertical as possible means they don't spill - as long as I'm not upside down. The manifold keeps the two tanks separate in case one does get fouled. Th manifold is gravity fed from the tanks so draining/cleaning is easy. The tanks each have an access port in the center of the top face.

[camroll]

I looked at both Air Head and Natures Head but ended up picking C Head. This uses a 5 gal. bucket as the receptacle and has easily replaceable parts. I bought the shorty model. It took a little bit of effort to fit it in the boat. I can send you photos if you want.

We found with just us 2 adults we would need to empty the pooh container once a week or so. We just bring the bucket out on deck tip it into a trash bag and bring it to the next dumpster we came across. We throw the tissues right in. There is no odor what-so-ever. I did not use a vent hose at all and in fact I can just unhook the head and bring it home with me. The unit is totally self contained. I got bags of peat moss at a hardware store. One 8 lb bag lasts about a month. The only real issue we had with it is the pee. You have to separate it which the head does quite nicely otherwise then you get odors. The pee container was only a gallon sized which we would fill in a day or so. I carried a plastic 5 gal container to put the pee in until we could find a restroom.

I do not understand why you would need or even want the second 5 gal bucket. For coastal cruising I find the we are stopping at marinas or parks every 3-4 days or so. It is important to remember that these are not strictly composting heads but desiccating heads. Its more like cat litter than composting. Remember also when you add the deodorizer or whatever head treatment you add to your regular head it means that waste cannot be composted either and is treated as hazardous waste.

As to cost, if it costs the same as a regular head you will be ahead of the game as you will have to pay continually for pump outs and maintenance. The only maintenance I did was to hose the thing out at the end of the season. Also no hoses to leak or tanks to smell etc.

One of the big things for me in choosing this was to not be tied to a dock. You do not have to search out and pull up to docks to pump out. I liked the freedom this gave me to not to have to go to marinas.

Feel free to ask any questions and good luck with your choice

Russ

[Pembquist]

Russ I looked a little closer and watched a couple videos and I'm left thinking they should change the name to "liquid separating desiccating toilet" instead of composting toilet. With that frame change it begins to make a lot more sense! I think I will be making one to try out at a property we own that doesn't have a loo. I have a few more questions for you. I'm in the PNW and it can be very wet here in the winter/spring. Have you used your head when there has been extended high humidity? Do you think it would be challenged by a bout of diarrhea? Do you think it would be challenged by a higher frequency of use? {Not so much from filling up as from not really being able to dry out.} What do you think of using a desiccant like silica gel or even cat litter instead of peat moss, coconut husk, or sawdust? I saw on the C Head website that they now offer one without the stir paddle with the suggestion to use "biodegradable" plastic bags and skip the mixing. Do you think the mixing really helps dry out and kill the stink of the poo quickly? I wouldn't have thought it would be nearly as effective without mixing it. Did you ever consider putting the head in the V-Berth to free up the head space for storage? Do you think being located in the V-berth would make it hard to use in a sea way?

I can see your point about not having to visit marinas or the need to find a pump out station every so often, the ability to use a trash can does seem flexible. I am a little concerned about winter and intermittent use. If poo sat in it for a month in the damp would it start to get odiforous.

[camroll]

We tried ours at home for a couple of weeks before putting it on the boat to make sure we knew what we were getting into. As an aside my daughter uses a similar set up as the main toilet at her farm house. They just have a 5 gal. bucket in a box with a seat on top. They pee in it but empty it onto the compost pile every day.

As to the high humidity we used ours on the Maine coast for 3 months which can have higher humidity I suppose but probably not as high as the PNW. I don't think it would be a real problem as you keep the lid down when not using it and you can always add more peat moss if you think its not drying it enough. Diarrhea and over use can be problems but again its solved simply by emptying the head out more frequently. Diarrhea filled heads should be emptied promptly to prevent the spread of disease. The CHead guy explains some of this in the literature included with the head.

We decided on peat moss because it is readily available at most hardware stores or garden centers. I take an 8lb bag and put it into 4 1 gal containers with wide mouth screw on lids. When I empty the head I just dump one of these in. They recommend you experiment with how much peat moss you add which will depend on frequency of use, and how often you want to empty it. These 1 gal containers would last us about 7-10 days depending on how often we stayed at marinas.

Cat litter is kind of abrasive and dusty but I guess some people do use it. I didn't think any of the other options were available widely enough for me. I did experiment with cedar shavings (think gerbils) and that is why I went with peat moss.

I think the paddle is a good idea though I know if you change it often enough its probably not necessary. My daughter just puts hay and leaves in hers but again they empty it every day.

When I asked at CHead if anyone had put one in a Cape Dory he sent me pictures of one mounted in the middle of the v-berth. I chose to put mine where the head has been traditionally mounted, across from the hanging locker. I removed the sink and vanity that were there and bought the "shorty model" so it wouldn't be so high. I do sleep occasionally in the v-berth.

All told the whole thing was really pretty simple and easy to use.

You can email me if you'd like to continue this discussion and I can send photos of what I've done.
camroll@gmavt.net
Russ