prospective CD 28 buyer question about Volvo

[scarduner]

Have always wanted a Cape Dory and am now looking at a Cape Dory 28 I think I can afford - must sell my Bristol 24....

This boat, however, is a 1978 with its original Volvo engine. 39 years! Can you tell me if any of you are sailing CD 28s with original engines? (I realize when it's been rebuilt is important, but I may not be able to know that)

Also, a review I read said this engine was very loud and "shake your cavities out"... Is this accurate?

Thanks. Really hoping I can purchase this boat

Stuart

Oh - the cockpit floor toward the stern is very soft - is this by any chance common to Cape Dory's?

[psjanker]

My 28 has a replacement Volvo 2002 engine, not sure what it initially had. Not sure that any one or two cylinder diesel couldn't be accused of running rough....they are after all diesels!

As to the cockpit, it is not unexpected that a cockpit floor could have water intrusion I know mine was also soft. Fixing the problem is not difficult nor expensive so long as one does the work oneself. If you hire it out it is still not difficult however it will likely be costly in comparison to the value of the boat.

What are they asking?

V/r

Pete

[Maine_Buzzard]

For any MD7, expect that you will be rolling the dice on the engine. Raw water cooled? it has already well exceeded the predicted lifespan, as 95% of its brethren are kaput.

Volvos are not incredibly loud, the cast iron block soaks up plenty. I thought mine had a wonderful tum tum sound. I was usually more fearful of a strangled silence from it...

Plan on a replacement within a year or two, or at least determine the value based on that premise.

Weak points are the thermostat housing


and exhaust log


Between them is a copper tube, taking water from the raw water pump and feeding it for exhaust and engine cooling.


It usually looks like this, I changed it a year or two in. BTW, the muffler had a good hole started there too.


I had to cob up a jury rig for a few years


The seal on the bronze adapter is what typically sealed the tubing when new. They will not work on the rusty parts above.
RTV or form a gasket in gallon buckets will be required to get these old rusty surfaces to seal.

And then you will blow out the exhaust log from corrosion or the elbow/water injector/muffler will rot out.

The parts you want will not be available at the time it fails, and you will scour ebay for a junk engine to steal things off of to fix. If you are around the corner from Joe DeMers at Sound Marine, it might be OK, but if you're not already on a first name basis with a diesel mechanic, look for one named Otto or Gunter who drives an ancient Mercedes.

If you have previously swapped an auto engine, you can succeed at a boat repower. I'll suggest keeping the Bristol to sail whilst the 28 gets a new motor. If DIY, budget a summer to complete a $7k swap and upgrade on another $3k of hardware just because.

And with the soft cockpit floor, I'd open with "Would you split the cost for the boat hauler to bring it over to my house?" and wait silently.

Sorry for the wet hamster to the face.

[Neil Gordon]

My 28 is a '77. I repowered with a Beta 14 two years ago. At the time, my MD7A was running well, but it was cooling badly. The system was clogged in ways that couldn't be unclogged. Also, as mentioned, parts are nearly impossible to find. It appeared inevitable that I'd need to repower, and with the notion that the new Beta might well outlast me, I made the change.

Oh, and yes, the MD7A will vibrate, but not while you're sailing.

I agree that you're dealing with a year, or two, or three... sooner or later a part (or the whole) will fail. Sometimes that happens in a convenient place at a convenient time, but not often.

[Ben Thomas]

More than likely there is water intrusion via the emergency tiller plate and or the wheel/tiller base. Chalking failure at the screws holding ETP and or at the thru bolts holding wheel base / tiller base or both. There are two layers of glass in cockpit floor with Balsa in between, overall about 1.5" thick.
This was the case with my CD 30 as well as chalking failure in the combing board attachment screws into decks. A major undertaking for a DIY, but doable if you have the time, patience, know how and $.
This could be a deal breaker if the current owner won't budge in price. A good survey is in order.
For me soft decks/floors would mean a reduction in price of at least $3500.00-$5000.00 before I would even consider purchasing.
Then allow at least 10k for a repower.
Look before you leap!

[scarduner]

thanks for the feedback.

"Look before you leap" - well that's why I am here asking questions...

The boat is cheap (for a Cape Dory) and that's why... I could handle the cockpit floor repair myself, but my budget doesn't allow for repowering.

Well, I knew it was too good to be true. (When I first saw listing the engine age was not available...)

alas, a Cape Dory 28 will remain a fantasy...

[Ben Thomas]

Hmmm... on the bright side, The perfect Cape Dory match is out there waiting for you to find her. Keep looking, for all the faults of age they are wonderful boats and well worth the search!
Cheers
keep the board posted on your progress.

[Wayne Grenier]

I own a 1974 CD 28 with a 28 hp Volvo MD 11, 2 cylinder fresh water cooled engine. It was rebuilt in the 1990's and runs very very well. It seems to run better after being pushed all day.

Parts are expensive and difficult to find. I have access to a machine shop and that helps immensely.

You do not mention what type of motor it is or if you have it running. These motors fire on compression so if it starts right up then that is a great sign.

If it runs good it runs good!

The problem with any old boat is working backwards from the price for one in excellent condition. In this case a like new CD 28 is about 20K. An engine with the gear box-fuel tanks-prop shaft etc is 10K-sails are 3-4K-cushions and a bimini are another 2-3K-wiring and electronics are another 2-3K so buying any old boat is probably not a money making deal. At least with a CD you end up with a nice boat. Your boat almost certainly will need to be rewired from bow to stern. Not expensive but a lot of hours. Fuel tanks do not last forever either.

I pulled a Hobie 14 out of a friend's backyard for free and it cost me 1K to get the trailer straightened out and for a new trampoline and lines etc. The sails were new. Price for a 1974 Hobie 14 in good condtion on a trailer? about 1K. I probably lost money on a free boat. I do it because I like it.

[Ken Cave]

The new Volvo engines are a great machine. Very quiet (for a diesel) and it is a three cylinder unit. Price however will be around 11k for engine and all the
goodies that go with it.

If the engine is below the muffler system, you will in time have water intrusion into number three cylinder. There is a fix however, and that is to build a exhaust
pipe that is above the muffler. LaConner Marine (LaConner, WA.) built one out of stainless steel and the price was around $540.00 installed.

Hope this helps

Ken Cave

[Neil Gordon]

>>The problem with any old boat is working backwards from the price for one in excellent condition.<<

True, but some aspects of condition are mostly cosmetic. They'll keep a boat from selling quickly, but won't affect the way it works. They can also be a labor (lots of labor!) of love that doesn't require superb mechanical skills.

Also worth noting are a boat's inventory of gear. Spares, extra halyards, dock lines, fenders, galley stuff, tools, etc., can save a lot in the first 30 days after purchase and perhaps for a few years thereafter.

Just saying... I know finding the perfect boat that's also within an imperfect budget is not easy.

[scarduner]

>>The problem with any old boat is working backwards from the price for one in excellent condition.<<
Logical but it assumes a) everything that needs to be known about a 35 - 40 year old boat can be known (some old diesel engines run forever, other new ones up and need $$$) and b) we're unemotional economists... There are so many variables including how long one is willing to work on a boat that needs work, what one's standards are for perfection, or one's needs for the latest electronics or just the finest of everything...
What we all know is no matter what formula we use, it always turns out to underestimate what we spend!

I am getting the model and serial # on the engine in the CD 28 I am looking at. Apparently the current owner - who hasn't owned the boat long - :"thinks" it's original"... But since he reports it's 13 hp I assume it is original...

He is selling it through a broker - always a problem as you can't just ask direct questions of the person who actually used the boat... But the broker assured me "Was brought to yard under power a year ago and seemed to run okay." Good enough for me - where do I sign?

[Jerry Hammernik]

My 83 CD28 has the original Volvo MD7B. I snagged a used MD7A a few years ago for spare parts. Haven't used any yet. Mine runs fine, but it is a fresh water boat since new.

I know of a freshwater CD30 cutter that is for sale with an MD7 (A I think). If your would like info PM me.

[scarduner]

I may very well buy the Cape Dory 28 I have written about, and I need to go into it with my eyes wide open about repowering if the original MD7a is not solid enough for me to feel comfortable taking down the ICW or across the Gulf to the Bahamas... So I am trying to get a sense of the cost of repowering. I would not buy new, but something rebuilt/reconditioned. I liked my Yanmar and would consider a 2 GM or 2 YM but am open to suggestions from experience.

Are there engines that you know of from experience that swap more easily than others in terms of size, shape, mounts...?

If you have repowered with something old/used would you share how much you paid for the engine and the installation?

Thanks for all your help...
stuart

[Neil Gordon]

Are there engines that you know of from experience that swap more easily than others in terms of size, shape, mounts...?
If you have repowered with something old/used would you share how much you paid for the engine and the installation?

I repowered with a new Beta two years ago, replacing an MD7A. The Beta is smaller and is a straightforward install. The beds needed to be raised (which is lots easier than lowering them!) which was about the only change needed to the boat itself.

When figuring costs, remember to include a new prop, shaft, shifter, and the like. If you have a running engine you're taking out, you can subtract whatever you can get for it!

[Maine_Buzzard]

Expect about $6K for a Beta 14 and transmission, $3K for prop, shafts, shifter, and 40 hours of paid labor (@$75-100/hr) to have it installed. If a mechanic is doing the work, ask if you can do much of the grunt work, pulling wiring, fuel lines, exhaust, and prop shaft. You can save about 10 hours of paid work without much risk.

Think about replacing the fuel tank, as it may only be possible to remove it intact when the engine is out. I could easily drop down to a 5 or 8 gallon tank with my Beta, as I do not motor for days.

The flexible shaft log and cutless will get replaced at this time too.

http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31120

Watch the boat sale sites (www.sailingtexas.com, www.searchtempest.com) for a used Beta engine, or buy a non-submerged salvage boat for a good engine. 14-16hp is good for a 28, 20hp is nearly too much engine for that boat.