Pros and cons of lines led aft

[freitknecht]

Thanks so much for all of your replies. I have only had my Cape Dory 27 since last March and I began accessing this site before my purchase. It has been extremely helpful to get such great input from experts who love these boats. I sailed my boat last season and once I got to know the boat, really did not have any difficulties going up to the mast to raise the main or reef. I had a Bayfield 25 for 10 years which came with 2 winches and cleats for lines led aft. Frequently, I still had to go to the mast to either pull the sail down or deal with twists in the line. I am clearly getting older and want to set this boat up for the next 10-15 years. My boatyard has suggested that I get a single winch with an organizer and clutches for the main halyard, 2 reefing lines, and topping lift. I am concerned about all the clutter. I am getting a new mainsail, probably with full battens and plan to keep the original track with allslip slugs. I presently have a single reefing line for each reef and have kept the lines in the cringles which maybe is not the best idea. Presently, I am mostly a solo daysailer. There seem to be many opinions but most seem to suggest that keeping it simple is best and that it is not worth the expense of bringing the lines aft. Are there no advantages?

Felice

[tjr818]

Felice,
Where do you sail? That makes a difference. How old are you? That makes a difference. We sail our 27 on the Mississippi River above St. Louis. Running all of those lines back to the cockpit seems excessive for a 27. Do you have lazy jacks? Lazy jacks and full length battens often don't play well with each other. We love our I love our E-Z jacks, but that is for a different discussion. I almost went with Allslip slugs instead of StrongTrack. They certainly seemed like they would work well. I would advise you to go slowly with changes, and plan thoroughly before laying things out. Our Cabin top winch is located perfectly for me, but I should have gotten some input from my 5'-2" First Mate.

[John Stone]

Felice
Well, I think advantages are dependant on so many factors. If you don't want to leave the cockpit, and it works correctly most or all the time, and you are happy with the cost and clutter, and it performs as you planned, then it's an advantage. And that is enough for some/many people.

Regardless what you decide regarding the aft led halyards I would recommend seriously considering getting a Tides Marine strong track, especially if you are having a new mainsail made. The cost will probably end up about the same as installing an aft led halyard--ST winch, rope clutches, diverters/organizers, labor, etc. we are all getting older and it has made my ability to singlehand the Far Reach much easier.

The Strong Track is amazing. It simplifies raising and lowering the main significantly. I was simply stunned by the difference. I would install one regardless of installing aft led control line.

You might also google John Harries and AAC about aft led lines and also do the same for Andy Scheel. They have written extensively about the pitfalls and they both sail boats over 45'.

[Martinhilldpo]

Hi Robert

I have the same boat, 25D. I sail the rough waters of Juan de Fuca strait.

I single hand all the time. I am also older and fatter than I would wish.

I go to the mast, the boat was set up that way when I bought it and I have no wish to change. I always heave to to put in or shake out a reef, I have a tiller pilot but I dont like it . I have single line clew reefing cleated on the boom and cringles on a reefing hook for the tack which works just fine.

The only mainsail line led aft is the boom vang.

I have not yet installed jack lines, they are on my list and I really should. I clip in to a pad eye in the cockpit when in the cockpit. For going forward I have a 7' tether clipped in to the base of the mast, this is just long enough to clip in to as I leave the cockpit. It works.

Steve if you are reading this I like your idea of bum boards on the lower shrouds. It sounds very simple and effective, have you had any problems with them?

[Steve Laume]

Hi Robert

I have not yet installed jack lines, they are on my list and I really should. I clip in to a pad eye in the cockpit when in the cockpit. For going forward I have a 7' tether clipped in to the base of the mast, this is just long enough to clip in to as I leave the cockpit. It works.

Steve if you are reading this I like your idea of bum boards on the lower shrouds. It sounds very simple and effective, have you had any problems with them?

I feel the jack lines are very important. I never wear a PFD but am always clipped in when leaving the cockpit in anything other than extremely mild, inshore, daylight, conditions or when anchoring. I also have a few pad eyes in the cockpit that I use if things are really nasty. I think the most dangerous part of going forward, on Raven, is getting past the dodger. I clip into the jack line before leaving the cockpit and stay that way unless I clip the short tether to the mast. It is important to have a short tether when you get to the mast. I am always hooked in. I got some nice sewn, webbing, jack lines on the internet a long time ago, for not too much money. At first I just attached them to the mooring cleats. They now have their own dedicated pad eyes. They get rigged up before each trip, then are rinsed, dried, coiled and put away down below after the trip is over.

The butt boards have worked out better than I imagined they would. When I first installed them, I was a bit concerned that they might move. They have not budged a bit! I looked at a few different methods for attaching them and went with slots on the outer edges and two holes to lace them in with. I did about a foot of serving on the wires and then lashed the crap outta them. The boards are glued up to form a 2" thickness but even if the glue joint were to fail the pieces would stay in place. The lashings were also done in segments so if part of the lashing was to chafe through it would not unravel the whole thing. They are rock solid and provide a tremendous amount of security. This is especially so when combined with a snug tether around the mast and clipped into the spinnaker bail that holds it up a bit. It locks me in to the point where I have both hands free to work.

You could definitely get by without the belaying pins but then what would you use to club fish and repel boarders, Steve.

[Martinhilldpo]

Thanks Steve, I agree that jack lines are important and they are next on my list, should have been at the top really. I always wear an inflatable life jacket but sailing solo on the Straits of JDF, realistically if I went over the side I would be better to ditch it and get it over with quickly. The chances of being seen/found are virtually zero.

Any chance of a photo of the bum boards? I get the concept but a picture worth a thousand words and all that.

[mgphl52]

Surprised nobody else mentioned this but in my opinion running the mainsail halyard aft only makes sense if you install one of the external track and slide systems ($$$). They are so smooth you do not even need a downhaul. Otherwise, your sail slugs will just get jammed in the track and you'll be up at the mast all the time anyway.

Regular applications of 'SailKote' to the slugs keep KAYLA's main working quite fine. Far cheaper than replacing perfectly functioning gear and allows extra $$$ for sailor fuel, aka beer & wine...

[Keith]

So for the record, I single hand in Nantucket Sound in most any conditions, up to 35-40 knots and 6-8 ft seas. I use a PDF with D rings, harness with 1 & 2 M bungies, clip on points in the cockpit and at the mast (also use main cleats on the fore deck) and jack lines. All lines at the mast except the main and yankee halyards. Above 20 its I heave too when taking a reef.

I'm very curious about why so many people have problems with the main sliding in the standard track. I carry a can of silicone spray and spend 5-10 mins at the beginning of the season and every month or so spray the slides and run a small piece of paper towel soaked with silicone up and down the track. My main drops like a rock every time and it has never hung up. I have a friend with a strong track and I do agree his main will beat mine down the mast every time but both he and I agree it is not worth the cost. So the question I pose is what is different about my mast track and slides from everyone else?

PS I did compound the inside of track when I first purchased MOON DANCE 5 years ago. It took maybe an hour.

[Martinhilldpo]

I too have the standard track and have never had any trouble getting the main down. I sprayed it a couple of months back with sailkote. It works. I might have to tug a bit of a handful down when putting in a reef but its not a big deal at all.

I spent 5 days on a bigger boat with lines led aft and I think if I ever purchased one I would try it for a while but I really dont feel the need to convert my existing arrangement at the mast. I would rather spend the money on beer.

[tjr818]

I too have the standard track and have never had any trouble getting the main down. I sprayed it a couple of months back with sailkote. It works. I might have to tug a bit of a handful down when putting in a reef but its not a big deal at all. . . .

Just to see what those of us with StrongTrack are talking about - take a look at this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVEX4DCfCYE

The main on Slainte, or 27 drops like a rock, 30' straight down in two maybe three seconds.

[Martinhilldpo]

This topic is becoming almost as popular and divisive as "should one lock the propeller shaft or let it free-wheel".


I let mine spin. Is that wrong?


(Tee hee hee)

[Paul D.]

I'm a lines at the mast guy. My philosophy is to cut out any additional friction wherever possible. I also do exactly what Keith and others do in spraying the mast track with Sailkote as part of the spring fitting out. I can physically make it to the mast top and pull down the spinnaker halyard to persuade me to do so each spring. I then to reeve it and check out the shroud fittings and crane etc. Our older main comes down on its own every time.

I single hand on Lake Superior and use 1" climbing webbing with sewn loops on one end looped on the bow cleats and ran back along the cabin sides and cleated off at the stern cleats. The 33 has wide side decks so it is pretty easy to get to the mast.

I sailed an Alberg 37 which had it's halyard run to the cockpit and it took me 5 or more minutes hard cracking on a cabin top winch to raise. Plus the reefing lines were at the mast. I never understood that. It did not have a special track system.

If you run the halyard back aft, I would make sure all the lines you need to do a maneuver with the sail would be run to the same spot so you can do it fast. On Femme I've just kept everything at the mast. I figure that way I can do a reef in about a minute.

Mind you, I do have a a bit of a story about trying to throw in a reef just before tacking away from an island while single handing last fall!