TRYING TO FIND LEAK - Please Help

[Russell S. Rau]

Felow Captains and CD Owners. Please help with my leak puzzle if you can or have experienced same. Mine is an '83 CD 30C. Restoration in progress. The port side buldhead wall just forward of the head gets wet at its bottom. The bottom of the teak buldhead wall does not go all the way to the floor and it does not appear to be wicking water from either of the two through hulls close by (head intake and wast pump out). I have carefully examined the stanchions and chain plates in the vicinity during heavy rains and washings and they check out OK. Now advisors (friends) here locally are beginning to suspect some sort of condensation condition. I routinely run a dryer on board and keep a 60W bulb on all the time. Has anyone experienced any similar mystery? Could it be some sort of sweating under the liner. Please help if possible.

Russell Rau



rrau@att.net

[Ron Musk]

Felow Captains and CD Owners. Please help with my leak puzzle if you can or have experienced same. Mine is an '83 CD 30C. Restoration in progress. The port side buldhead wall just forward of the head gets wet at its bottom. The bottom of the teak buldhead wall does not go all the way to the floor and it does not appear to be wicking water from either of the two through hulls close by (head intake and wast pump out). I have carefully examined the stanchions and chain plates in the vicinity during heavy rains and washings and they check out OK. Now advisors (friends) here locally are beginning to suspect some sort of condensation condition. I routinely run a dryer on board and keep a 60W bulb on all the time. Has anyone experienced any similar mystery? Could it be some sort of sweating under the liner. Please help if possible.

Russell Rau

Russ,
Have you checked your dorade vent as a possible source?
Ron Musk
CD30



ccerre@massed.net

[len]

Felow Captains and CD Owners. Please help with my leak puzzle if you can or have experienced same. Mine is an '83 CD 30C. Restoration in progress. The port side buldhead wall just forward of the head gets wet at its bottom. The bottom of the teak buldhead wall does not go all the way to the floor and it does not appear to be wicking water from either of the two through hulls close by (head intake and wast pump out). I have carefully examined the stanchions and chain plates in the vicinity during heavy rains and washings and they check out OK. Now advisors (friends) here locally are beginning to suspect some sort of condensation condition. I routinely run a dryer on board and keep a 60W bulb on all the time. Has anyone experienced any similar mystery? Could it be some sort of sweating under the liner. Please help if possible.

Russell Rau

Russ,
Have you checked your dorade vent as a possible source?
Ron Musk
CD30

md.frel@nwh.org

[len]

russ

i solved a similar problem by recaulking the fresh water intake on the deck on that side - it there isn't one, i'd consider recaulking the stanchion bases and anything else on deck nearby - good luck

len



md.frel@nwh.org

[John R.]

Felow Captains and CD Owners. Please help with my leak puzzle if you can or have experienced same. Mine is an '83 CD 30C. Restoration in progress. The port side buldhead wall just forward of the head gets wet at its bottom. The bottom of the teak buldhead wall does not go all the way to the floor and it does not appear to be wicking water from either of the two through hulls close by (head intake and wast pump out). I have carefully examined the stanchions and chain plates in the vicinity during heavy rains and washings and they check out OK. Now advisors (friends) here locally are beginning to suspect some sort of condensation condition. I routinely run a dryer on board and keep a 60W bulb on all the time. Has anyone experienced any similar mystery? Could it be some sort of sweating under the liner. Please help if possible.

Russell Rau

Russell,
We have a CD30 also, an '83 cutter #271. There are a few places you need to check. The water can easily migrate down to that location from the bow area or the cabin top. Leaking pulpit bases and stanchion bases will allow water to seep to that location along the underside of the deck due to the sheer. Sometimes you can spot staining and possibly rusting hardware (washers and nuts) along the underside of the inside gunnel area between the liner lip and the hull. You need a very bright light to note any staining to the raw surface of the glass.

I had a couple pulpit base bolts that leaked and the water ran aft almost to the forward bulkhead that you mention, except on starboard rather than port.

Someone stated the dorade vent may be a possibility. That certainly is possible. If you remove the screen from the underside (liner)you will probably see a gap between the liner and deck underside. That junction of the two surfaces was not sealed well by Cape Dory. There is probably a 1/4" - 1/2" gap between the two surfaces. However, if that is the point of water ingress (not likely) then it would be more apt to affect the main bulkhead rather than the forward one due to the vents proximity and the shape of the cabin and sheer. Aside from that the piece of PVC pipe that Cape Dory used as the chimney section of the vent could have a leak around it's exterior wall where it joins with the cabin top. The pipe does not fit the hole through the cabin top well and CD tried to span the gap with caulk which sagged somewhat into the crevice. Perhaps yours is not completely sealed. You should definitely check that chimney joint. You will have to remove the dorade top plexiglass to inspect that joint.

The mast step could easily be the culprit and would be highly suspect on my list. A leak at it's base could allow water to migrate toward any of the four bulkheads between the cabin top and liner. That is a definite suspect area.

Good luck.

[Larry DeMers]

Russell,

A leak at that location would ordinarily be coming from up forward (water flows downhill except in a hurricane!), so I would try to determine which direction it is coming first. A way to do this is to use small pieces of paper towel, cut up into small strips, and laid on the sole to absorb some of the water as it comes in. The paper will show the direction of the water coming in...even after it's dried out (watermark will show direction). That's half the battle. The other half is coming up with a fix for the problem.

What is forward of that bulkhead? Well, not the dorade vent. If it were to leak, it's water would go downhill..toward the galley. So it has to be something on that side fo the boat..vberth portside port, chain locker, leaky stanchion base or head holding tank.

Realize that the heads effluent hose goes right through that bulkhead, just above the leak as I picture it..at least in my 1983 CD30 (#283), that is true. If there was a slight abrasion of that hose, it would dump a squirt of water every time the head was used. In this case, the fix is easy and will solve two problems..the head odor and leaking problem.

Good Luck,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Felow Captains and CD Owners. Please help with my leak puzzle if you can or have experienced same. Mine is an '83 CD 30C. Restoration in progress. The port side buldhead wall just forward of the head gets wet at its bottom. The bottom of the teak buldhead wall does not go all the way to the floor and it does not appear to be wicking water from either of the two through hulls close by (head intake and wast pump out). I have carefully examined the stanchions and chain plates in the vicinity during heavy rains and washings and they check out OK. Now advisors (friends) here locally are beginning to suspect some sort of condensation condition. I routinely run a dryer on board and keep a 60W bulb on all the time. Has anyone experienced any similar mystery? Could it be some sort of sweating under the liner. Please help if possible.

Russell Rau

demers@sgi.com

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Russell,

If it is in fact a small leak in the head discharge hose, when you replace it use the original BLACK waste hose. Don't try using the newer PVC hose(Ordor Safe, etc.) as good as it may look. The new stuff is just too stiff to make the slight bend behind the head into the hanging locker and then make up with the PVC pipe that goes through the cabin. I know, I tried using the PVC Stuff and after a lot of !@#$%^&**&, I used the original black stuff. It works just fine, after all, it lasted almost 15 years before I had to replace it!

FWIW....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30 (1984)

[Larry DeMers]

Dave and Russell,

I had a bit of a different experience with the White Sealand hose..and while it IS definitely very stiff, there are some techniques that allow it to be bent easily..hot water and /or a hair dryer.
I put this stuff in a few years back..and had to make a 45 deg. upward pitch immediately after leaving the hose barb on the head, then go straight into the hanging locker, then make a 90 deg. turn forward to go thru the bulkhead. That hole needed to be elongated a tad to make the bend possible. But then it went right through with no problem at all. I connected it up tot he holding tank with 2 hose clamps and that has been the end of smelly-head-itis ever since.
Now I do believe that Dave's head holding tank is located in a location other than under the V-Berth (as mine is), so that may make a big difference on routing difficulties.

Whether the black hose is as impermeable as the white hose, I have no experince determining. However, Peggy Hall from The Hall Group, experts in all things dealing with poop and marine sanitation, says that the white Sealand hose is the only one to install for odor free heads. She has a presence on the Rec.Boats.Cruising web site, as well as on the Liveaboard Listserver, both of which I am a member of also.

Cheers,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Russell,

If it is in fact a small leak in the head discharge hose, when you replace it use the original BLACK waste hose. Don't try using the newer PVC hose(Ordor Safe, etc.) as good as it may look. The new stuff is just too stiff to make the slight bend behind the head into the hanging locker and then make up with the PVC pipe that goes through the cabin. I know, I tried using the PVC Stuff and after a lot of !@#$%^&**&, I used the original black stuff. It works just fine, after all, it lasted almost 15 years before I had to replace it!

FWIW....

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30 (1984)

demers@sgi.com

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Larry,

Yes, the tank is in a different location. It is molded into the bilge space starting about where the divider is from the port berth/stove area going aft. So, yes, it was a little different putting in the hose. Sure, the SeaLand hose will last a lot longer, but the ease and less expense of the black stuff makes it not to difficult to replace..FWIW...

D. Stump

[Larry DeMers]

Hi David,

I seemed to recall your saying that the holding tank was a bit tough to get at..under the sole. It is actually a better place to put it from a weights and balance standpoint, as it's on the center of gravity. Is it still the same size as we have inthe v-berth stowage area..~20 gals?

After spending a long time trying to stop, then cover up that dreadful head smell..and realizing that we wanted to use the head as intended, I became quite frustrated in the failure of many attempts to clear up the smell. Finally, the hose seemed the only thing left..so we replaced it with something that should not be a concern to us for many years to come. By comparison, your run from head to tank seems probably 2-3x as long as mine. That is a considerable hunk of moolah, so I understand your trying the black stuff now. My run was 6 ft., so the cost was not too bad.
We have either 3 or 4 years on the new hose, and so far..perfect~!

Cheerio!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
~~~Noticing the melt-water, waiting for some 60's again!~~

Larry,

Yes, the tank is in a different location. It is molded into the bilge space starting about where the divider is from the port berth/stove area going aft. So, yes, it was a little different putting in the hose. Sure, the SeaLand hose will last a lot longer, but the ease and less expense of the black stuff makes it not to difficult to replace..FWIW...

D. Stump

demers@sgi.com

[S/V Ethan Grey]

It’s a shame so many of these posts go unsolved. I have the same leak on my CD30 and haven’t found the source either.

However, if I do, I will post it here

[JD-MDR]

Sometimes I notice some moisture at different places . Whenever I am bucking into the weather . The bilge pump kicks on. It doesn't take much ( about 1 gal.) I have a small pump and switch way down in the sump. I'm pretty sure its leaking from the toe rails . Last week I run the water hose on all the deck fittings an found some leaks that I fixed.: At the pulpit and at the deck mounted nav lights and a few other places. I didn't see much leakage but I stopped it at those places. The bilge pump still goes on. I turn the switch off. Sometimes I raise that pump up on another level. which Is better for traveling. But for short trips I'm OK turning it off. I have a bigger pump wired to a switch that I can use anytime but never have. After I get some serious sailing in Next year I hope to remove the toe and rub rails. I want to copy "Far Reaches" bulwarks"

[John Stone]

It’s a shame so many of these posts go unsolved. I have the same leak on my CD30 and haven’t found the source either.

However, if I do, I will post it here

I had the same problem. It was the shower sump on my boat. You can read about it here if interested. Scroll down about 1/3 of the way.

http://www.farreachvoyages.com/installr ... heads.html

[gates_cliff]

I've noticed small amount of water accumulating in my engine pan. Can't find anything on the engine leaking so one afternoon the local mechanic agreed to take a look, for the price of a cup of coffee.. He agreed it wasn’t coming from the engine and opined it was probably from the rudder shaft.

Now the trick is how to get my old limbs contorted enough to access it

[gonesail]

I have a small sump just under the stuffing box .. mine is dripless. what's weird is this sump overflows into the engine pan .. instead of the bilge. well I have a fresh water leak that is filling up the engine pan. on my other boat the stuffing box bypassed the engine sump and went straight to the bilge. any other 30 MKII boats out there have a different setup?