Suggestions on coming about on a cutter

[mashenden]

I have lots of sailing experience, but not much with my latest sail configuration which is a cutter (CD-36). I am wondering if anyone has any advice on how to get the large jib through the slot without walking forward and wrestling with it.

My attempts so far make me think it is mostly up to luck, more often requiring a trip forward to get it resolved. I did seem to have better results by jibing. Seems to put less pressure on the jib, with the wind pushing the jib forward, making it easier to pull everything through using the sheets. But when coming about, the jib fills as soon as the boat comes through the wind, and then immediately becomes a mess.

I know many have eliminated the small jib as a solution - not willing to do that at this point.

Any thoughts (other than eliminating the small jib)?

[tjr818]

The 31 in our harbor has the jib on roller reefing and he rolls it up before each tack and then unrolls it when the bow has passed through the eye of the wind.

[mashenden]

The 31 in our harbor has the jib on roller reefing and he rolls it up before each tack and then unrolls it when the bow has passed through the eye of the wind.

I had thought that through as an option too, but the effort to roll it back in is not too much different from just wrestling with it. I may just be getting lazy

[CD_Sailor]

... advice on how to get the large jib through the slot without walking forward and wrestling with it ... I know many have eliminated the small jib as a solution - not willing to do that at this point ...

Yesterday while aboard a Gemini catamaran down Barnegat Bay we encountered a pretty CD36 sailing along comfortably with main and staysail, but no genoa. This boat did well under that rig, even in relatively light air. After reading your query, I was forced to consider that this fellow had chosen the simple solution to your problem.

Unfortunately this solution doesn't really "solve" anything, since the sailing potential of this boat when short tacking cannot be achieved in lighter airs using the simplified sailing rig. Another way of looking at this (that also is not a "solution") is that the double-head rig on a boat this size is inherently too complicated when compared with a sloop. I am aware of the positive aspects of double-head rigs, but FWIW my personal view is that they only become truly positive when the boat has beached a LOL considerably larger than 36 feet.

Put another way, size for size the sloop will outsail the double-head rig going uphill in almost all conditions and normal wind speeds.

As always, all contrary views will enliven the discussion.

[Jim Walsh]

I've sailed a few thousand miles inshore and offshore with my CD31. The only time I've had issues when tacking is when I'm flying my largest headsail, a low cut 135%, in light winds. In those situations I've had to go forward to help it through the slot. An easier solution is to partially furl the headsail before tacking. These measures are not necessary every time, perhaps one out of three times.
When I am flying my "large" yankee(about 110%), or my "small" yankee" (about 95%) I've never had an issue.
The nice thing about ownership is that you can do whatever you think best. Personally I'm happy with my cutter. My previous boat was a sloop and I owned that for 18 years. Which rig do I prefer? The cutter, hands down.

[mashenden]

I've sailed a few thousand miles inshore and offshore with my CD31. The only time I've had issues when tacking is when I'm flying my largest headsail, a low cut 135%, in light winds. In those situations I've had to go forward to help it through the slot. An easier solution is to partially furl the headsail before tacking. These measures are not necessary every time, perhaps one out of three times.
When I am flying my "large" yankee(about 110%), or my "small" yankee" (about 95%) I've never had an issue.
The nice thing about ownership is that you can do whatever you think best. Personally I'm happy with my cutter. My previous boat was a sloop and I owned that for 18 years. Which rig do I prefer? The cutter, hands down.

Are you saying yours just goes through without much hassle or that you have figured out the right steps to get it through?

This weekend I only had the main and large jib out, not the small, but if I went slightly too far into the wind, there was no getting the boat back on the original tack. The large jib would pull the boat about, then not go through the slot, essentially heaving to. Major PITA.

[David van den Burgh]

Matt,

We have roller furling on both our headsails and fly about a 110% yankee, so your situation might be different if you're flying a genoa or don't have a furling unit on the staysail. At any rate, the jib slides through the slot just fine when all sails are set. Without the staysail flying, however, getting the jib through the slot is easiest if I take up the slack on the lazy sheet prior to tacking, then, once in the tack, ease the working sheet and immediately take up on the lazy sheet to place the clew as close to the furled staysail stay as possible. With the clew in that location, a little patience and breeze will blow the belly of the yankee through the slot. Tacking in this way also saves unnecessary wear on the furled staysail since the lazy (now active) sheet isn't hauling the yankee across the staysail and potentially creating friction burns. The only time I have to go forward during a tack is when I'm flying our drifter. That one definitely needs the clew walked through the slot.

David

[mashenden]

Matt,

We have roller furling on both our headsails and fly about a 110% yankee, so your situation might be different if you're flying a genoa or don't have a furling unit on the staysail. At any rate, the jib slides through the slot just fine when all sails are set. Without the staysail flying, however, getting the jib through the slot is easiest if I take up the slack on the lazy sheet prior to tacking, then, once in the tack, ease the working sheet and immediately take up on the lazy sheet to place the clew as close to the furled staysail stay as possible. With the clew in that location, a little patience and breeze will blow the belly of the yankee through the slot. Tacking in this way also saves unnecessary wear on the furled staysail since the lazy (now active) sheet isn't hauling the yankee across the staysail and potentially creating friction burns. The only time I have to go forward during a tack is when I'm flying our drifter. That one definitely needs the clew walked through the slot.

David

Awesome info. Thank you. I too have roller furling on both. I have done that in the past and now recall not having as much difficulty. I'll have to play around a bit more with both jibs out - that may be the best solution most of the time.

When tacking w/o the staysail, I essentially tried what you mentioned about getting the clew up close to the furled staysail, but I believe that my Genny is larger than 110%. The belly did not seem to go through presumably because a larger percentage of the jib was aft of the staysail stay. But it could have been a case of limited experience. And I may have been waiting too long. I'll definitely give it another try.

Thanks again.

[Capt Hook]

I have limited experience so far with my CD 31.

I had also thought about furling the jib before coming about and then unfurling it after.

Is part of the take away from this that it's easier to get the jib to come through the slot if the staysail is up than if it's not?

[jen1722terry]

We've had much better luck getting our yankee thru the slot by changing the sheet knot to a snug buntline hitch. Seems to snag less on the forestay, but not foolproof.

A bit of furling always works.

Good luck

Jenn and Terry (presently sitting in a motel in Calais, ME on our way back to our 31 in Northeast Harbor).

[Capt Hook]

I didn't figure this out. The PO did.
I don't have two separate sheets for the Yankee. I have one sheet the length of two. The mid point is passed through the ring on the clew and the ends are passed through the loop and pulled through. No knots. I haven't measured it but that line must be 100' long.

[Jim Walsh]

I didn't figure this out. The PO did.
I don't have two separate sheets for the Yankee. I have one sheet the length of two. The mid point is passed through the ring on the clew and the ends are passed through the loop and pulled through. No knots. I haven't measured it but that line must be 100' long.

Bet it's more than 100 feet. My yankee sheets are 62 feet long....each. It does make a difference whether or not you make use of your turning blocks....I do.

[Capt Hook]

Jim,
You may be right. We do use the turning blocks. The Yankee and sheets are off right now because it recently got a new cover. Planning to put back on the furler tomorrow. Maybe I'll measure sheet before putting back on.

[Keith]

On MOON DANCE I 30C fly a 115% yankee with the staysail in up to about 15 kt of wind and never have a problem coming about. The yankee sometimes drags a bit longer before it comes through the slot but always comes through without assistance. I find that the timing of when you let off the leeward sheet and and start to haul in the windward sheet does make a difference in how smoothly the yankee comes through the slot. I have to jibe when I fly the asymmetrical spinnaker with or without the staysail up. Hope this helps

[Capt Hook]

On MOON DANCE I 30C fly a 115% yankee with the staysail in up to about 15 kt of wind and never have a problem coming about. The yankee sometimes drags a bit longer before it comes through the slot but always comes through without assistance. I find that the timing of when you let off the leeward sheet and and start to haul in the windward sheet does make a difference in how smoothly the yankee comes through the slot. I have to jibe when I fly the asymmetrical spinnaker with or without the staysail up. Hope this helps

Could you expound a bit on the timing that you find effective.