Cabin sole water damage CD27

[freitknecht]

I'm the new owner of a 1980 CD 27 and am trying to identify the source of a chronic dampness on the cabin sole which has damaged the wood over time. My boatyard says it's not a major leak, but they haven't yet been able to find the cause. I'm just wondering if anyone here has seen something like this and might have ideas.

[Jim Walsh]

Are you certain, before you purchased her, she didn't have the interior full of water up to the level apparent on the settee side and bulkhead? That would be my guess. That damage is not from "dampness".

[Sea Hunt Video]

If you had a marine survey done it would be interesting to know what the surveyor said about this.

I saw something similar to this on a sailboat I looked at several years ago. The owner acknowledged that the bilge and cabin sole had filled with water and he had not checked on it for several months. From the wood discoloration it looks like you got 1" - 2" of water above the bilge. I agree with Jim - it does not look like just water "dampness" although I guess it is possible if a small amount of water seeped in regularly over a long period of time it could produce the same results. If the later I would think you would see evidence of water intrusion (discoloration, stain, rotting wood somewhere to account for a lot of water over a long time.

[tjr818]

That sure looks to me as though something leaked while the owner was away. If the water sat in there for a week or two it would leave the telltale ring around the cabin. If it sat way for several months that would explain the delamination of the plywood. Is there any sign of a active leak now? Was the boat stored on the hard when you bought her?

[Northstar1014]

My 27 does this, albeit to a lesser extent. Its worse if I am hosing down inside the cockpit lazarette, so I believe that hose water is making its way forward under the salon berths.

Do you have a port side fresh water tank and if yes, is it possible it is leaking?

[Ron M.]

I'd concur with the others that it's due to bilge overflow, a good prescription for installing a garboard drain.
Also climb aboard and have someone spray water on the cabin top to observe any leaking.
If you keep the boat in a freeze zone bilge pumps don't work when frozen so you have to keep an eye on how much accumulation you're getting below deck.

[freitknecht]

Thanks for all your replies. Unfortunately, the past owner died shortly after the boat was put in the water in July, 2014. I think that it was mostly unattended until it was taken our that fall. It remained on the hard until this April when I launched it.. The staining was present when I bought the boat. It is only on the port side and therefore, I don't think that there was water above the bilge sitting there. The only other issue is a leak in the head, possibly related to a ball valve. I was wondering if this could be related.The surveyor mentioned a possible leak around the waste pump out which is on that side . I have not seen any evidence of it coming from above . Any other thoughts?

[tjr818]

How long was the boat in the water unattended? Was the boat stored level when it was on the hard? If it was a leaking head system I would suspect there would be some telltale odor.

[mashenden]

Assuming that high water in the bilge has been eliminated as the cause and the dampness remains, then it almost has to be a deck leak that is running down the inside of the hull, and getting in contact with the wood somehow. This will delaminate plywood over time since much of the glue used in ply back then was water soluable.

Water generally does not flow uphill unless forced, so small water leaks are usually found by looking above the place where noticed. That said, the water will run along ledges, showing up quite a distance from the actual point of entry. It can be tricky. I am beginning to think that that the only real way to stop water leaks is with pine needles... I have not tried that on my boat yet, but it really works in my gutters.

But seriously, I added a Water Witch bilge counter (BC100) to my setup because I liked that it kept a chronological count of when the bilge pump cycles (past 24 hour, 7 and 14 day periods). This helps me monitor things. I know a certain amount of water is leaking in when it rains. I also know that I do not have a leak below the waterline because I only have counts when it rains, not all of the time. Once I have a few other projects resolved, I will systematically fix these leaks, presumably starting with the stanchion bases.

[joemerchant]

I don't think it is from high water for the most part. The lines indicate wicking and not stains from a constant level. This can easily be caused by a small leak(s) wicking through the wood, especially the sole where it butts up to the cabinets. Cape Dory did have a flaw in their builds as they would butt up the sole to the exposed side grain and not seal it. Small water leaks from behind the cabinets, deck leaks, a/c, cracked water tanks, sweaty/leaky ice box, etc. will pool at the joints, then wick into where the two pieces of wood butt up together. Once you start the cancer, it will continue to sponge any moisture it finds and spread it through the path of least resistance.

Find and fix any leaks at the stanchions, chaninplates, deck fittings, etc. Have someone run a hose while you are below and head stuck in all your lockers. If you are forced to replace any wood, then look inside the lockers and see if the wood butts and joints are exposed. Easy enough to take some fiberglass and tab that area and give water a path to travel to the bilge without wicking into the wood. If you do find a deck leak, you will want to fix that asap as the balsa core takes very little time to become saturated and rot.

The cabin sole is not terribly difficult to replace. Cape Dory used 1/4 Teak and Holy veneer, which runs ~$100 for a 4X8 sheet. Git Rot or other thin epoxies are good for sealing in the exposed joint edges on ply, then use fiberglass mat to tab it in and add a drain hole to the bilge that won't allow the water to pool on the wood directly.

I disagree that water stains do not move up. When the wood is rooted, it becomes akin to a sponge as the cancer grows and takes the path of least resistance through the wood and especially laminated woods like veneer or plywood where the stain manifests itself between the softer ply and the harder veneer, which will stay solid until it finally delaminates.

[mashenden]

...I disagree that water stains do not move up. When the wood is rooted, it becomes akin to a sponge as the cancer grows and takes the path of least resistance through the wood and especially laminated woods like veneer or plywood where the stain manifests itself between the softer ply and the harder veneer, which will stay solid until it finally delaminates.

Good point. Water will flow downhill until it reaches something that absorbs it, then it will wick uphill. But still, to find the source you generally want to look above where it is noticed if its been determined to be rain related (not below the waterline).

Also the good news about stanchions is that they are outboard, bolted through an area where balsa is not used. At least that is what I have found in mine. That is not the case with the bow cleats, which will leak into decking that is balsa core. If others have found stanchions to be in the balsa core, please comment. I may need to re-prioritize my projects.

[freitknecht]

Thanks so much for all the great advice. There were loose stanchions on the stern which I had rebedded. Unfortunately, I have not been back to the boat for a week and a half and so, I don't know how things are going. I probably won't see the boat until Memorial Day weekend and hopefully, I will have my first sail.

[Ben Thomas]

Where are your water tanks?

[freitknecht]

I have the original water tank under the v-berth and a possible owner additional tank under the cabin sole just aft of the v-berth.

[frankfurder]

I had some cabin sole water damage on my 25d, leak was coming from under the companionway hatch. I removed the hatch cover (requires taking off one of the teak rails) and the leak was pretty obvious. resealed with boat life caulk and been dry ever since.