Tides marine Strongtrack

[tjr818]

Well, the Tidesmarine Stongtrack is in...sort of. We measured (twice), checked the specs for the Spartan Spar Section, 0.79" is the withe of the slot. Tidesmarine even sent a 6" sample of their K6, which they say they have used on all of the CD27's that they have provided for. That sample slid up and down like a slot car, I could sail it up 4 or 5 feet and it would drop back down the sail track like it was in free fall. So we ordered the K6 Track. When you do order they send a small section of the track that has a slide with a retrieval ring attached. As instructed we hoisted that little section up to the very top and it practically fell back down. Only the weight of the halyard keep it from dropping. Everything looked good, so following their instructions, we started pushing the track up the mast. That is when things went very wrong. About one eighth of the way up the track became hard to push. A little lubrication with soapy water (as instructed) seemed to help. About a fourth of the way up we could no longer push the track up at all, we also could no pull it down We tried and tried, but it would not budge. It wouldn't go up, it wouldn't come down. What to do This situation was not covered in their instruction booklet. So, we have something we want to go up the mast...and we have a halyard I send that previously mentioned slide with a retrieval ring up the track with the halyard attached. Brilliant ... : Not! Now I pull on the halyard and the track starts inning its way up the mast...for awhile...for about 8 feet. Now the track is halfway up the mast and really stuck, all seems hopeless...but wait, right there next to my hand is the halyard winch. I wrap the halyard around the winch and I start cranking...and cranking...and spraying the soapy water...and praying, and cranking, the track goes up another four feet My wife joins in, and we crank, we gain an inch. We crank...another inch. We crank some more...another inch ( 140" to go) It went on this way for the next 140" at the rate of about three inches per minute Finally, almost an hour later, we get it near the top, the assigned section where the flange has been removed slips into the mast gate and we are ALMOST there. I check the masts top with binoculars, all looks well. Then we come to the final step in the dreaded instructions...PULL THE TRACK DOWN 1" to 2" To be continued....

[Jim Walsh]

The suspense is killing me.

[tjr818]

The wait is killing me too! Tidesmarine was informed of the problem the day it happened. We are waiting for their suggestions and hope to hear from them soon.

[tjr818]

I still have not heard from Tidesmarine, sadly. I emailed them again today after measuring the sample that they sent me when I first contacted them against the check sample that came with our track. They say that this check sample is cut from the track that they sent me. If that Is true I think I have found the cause of the problem. The sample that they sent me in early April measures .652" ( a bit over 5/8"). The check sample from the track that they sent measures .770" (a bit over 3/4"). The track slot on the Spartan spar for a CD27 is .800". Oh how I wish I had checked that before the install. Here is a photo of the two tracks, notice that both are labeled K6. The track with the pins in it is the check sample that they sent with the order. The check sample is sent with a slide and a retrieval ring so you can send it up the mast and check the slot for the full height of the mast. We did send it up the mast and it worked without any problems, but that must be because it is only 2-1/2" long, due to the short length the friction was not noticed.

The track on the right is the original sample. The track on the left is the check sample, 30'-4" of which is now stuck in our mast.

K6 vs K6.jpg

[Jim Walsh]

The size differences are stunning. How many people carry a 1" mic. or a dial caliper when dealing with marine components. Most of us "presume" we are provided with components made to the proper specs. Before I assembled my Harken furler a couple months ago I used my dial caliper to check several of the components to be certain I wasn't going to have any assembly issues but I spent many years in a machine shop environment and for me it was a routine matter. Good luck.

[tjr818]

It is an ongoing rough lesson to be learned from, I suppose.
I thought that when we ordered a K6, and we tested a K6, that when the track came in labeled K6, we were ready to go.
Next time....

[Warren Kaplan]

That's just sad. You'd think that a company who did a lot of business where accurate measurements count would have a database with mast track measurements for production boats that they deal with. I know that I have had dealings with many companies (in many areas) that have just that. You tell them what you have and they can tell you the exact size you need for that product because they have the company specs for that product.

As a matter of fact, I didn't install my tidesmarine track myself. My local Doyle sail loft offered to do it for me (since I bought a load of sails from them and some had to be modified for that track). I don't remember them actually sending a guy to measure the track. I think they knew form past experience.
And, frankly, since tidesmarine made a track for my CD 27 and for Andy Denmark's CD27 (and how many others) they should have known the size necessary for your track. They should have the specs for a CD27 in their database. Curious that they didn't check it out when you ordered.

[Keith]

Clearly Tides Marine screwed up in marking the track that they sent you! I hope that you have sent them the picture that you posted above. They should send a tech out to get the oversized track that is marked incorrectly out of your mast track and install the correct one. I would be shocked if they do not correct there problem. I'm thinking that it will take someone at the top tapping it down while someone else is pulling from the bottom. Maybe they will have to unstep the mast then it can be pulled along the track my multiple sets of hand at multiple locations with lots of lube. As Warren stated this is a truly sad situation. Please post the resolution to this problem.

Keith

[Sea Hunt Video]

Tim:

Tides Marine is located in Deerfield Beach, Florida. That is only an easy 90 min/70 miles from my residence.

If I can assist with anything in terms of "face to face" contact I would be happy to drive up to Tides Marine. Whatever I can do please let me know. My home phone, etc., are in the CDSOA Directory. If you do not have the directory send me a PM or email.

[Jim Walsh]

Tim:

Tides Marine is located in Deerfield Beach, Florida. That is only an easy 90 min/70 miles from my residence.

If I can assist with anything in terms of "face to face" contact I would be happy to drive up to Tides Marine. Whatever I can do please let me know. My home phone, etc., are in the CDSOA Directory. If you do not have the directory send me a PM or email.

Reading this reminded me I haven't watched any of the "Godfather" movies in a while

[Andy Denmark]

Haven't been here in awhile and surprised to find myself in a topic I've posted to in the past. (Hi Warren & others. )

Before I'd go at Tides too strongly I'd get a bosun's chair and try to get a read on the mast. The fact that the Strong Track went up fine until near the top concerns me that it may not be the track that's at fault. Could well be a dimple or bend in the extrusion or some other part of obstruction. FWIW, mine went all the way up very smoothly and has been trouble free ever since, like all the other installations I've assisted with. I'd focus on the areas near the spreader bases, light wiring exit or halyard restrainer in particular.

If the track is still stuck in the mast it may well be possible to push it down from the top easier than pull it from the bottom --- or a combination of the two.

Just a thought or two here ...

[Andy Denmark]

Old age strikes again! I should have read the detailed posting more carefully before replying.

Still, the concept is the same. When I installed my StrongTrack I was worried it was too loose in the extrusion and would make racket when the sail was down (as in anchoring for the night). But this loose tolerance sort of shades the premise --- then again, measurements don't lie. Maybe measuring the mast extrusion would tell a story in this case, though. There may well be two sides to this clearance issue.

And this is just me .... I would have stopped trying to force the Strongtrack to go higher until the reason for the difficulty was clear. It's an old engineering truism.

Just sayin'

[tjr818]

Old age strikes again!...And this is just me .... I would have stopped trying to force the Strongtrack to go higher until the reason for the difficulty was clear. It's an old engineering truism. Just sayin'

Andy that idea was debated for almost an hour as we looked at how much more track there was to hoist we tried and tried to pull it back down. We had people standing on it others pulling, there just wasn't enough room around the mast to get anymore people involved. In the end we decided that since we were making progress pulling it up and since we couldn't make any progress pulling it down that we would go up. I will have to add this experience to the "Advice to younger self" thread.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Tim:

Tides Marine is located in Deerfield Beach, Florida. That is only an easy 90 min/70 miles from my residence.

If I can assist with anything in terms of "face to face" contact I would be happy to drive up to Tides Marine. Whatever I can do please let me know. My home phone, etc., are in the CDSOA Directory. If you do not have the directory send me a PM or email.

Reading this reminded me I haven't watched any of the "Godfather" movies in a while

Tim:

Jim's comment aside, I was/am serious about being happy to drive up to Tides Marine if there is anything I can do to assist "face to face".

[tjr818]

I thought that I had posted a response earlier today. It must still be in the cloud.

First I want to thank Jim, Keith, Warren, Roberto, and Andy for all the support.
I especially wanted to thank Roberto for his most generous offer.
We had not gotten any email responses from Tidesmarine in several days, so I called them today. It turns out, as is often then case, much of the problem is the result of mis-communication.
TM had sent the early sample of K6 and if worked like a charm, so we ordered the track. I used their measuring gauges and talked to TM we agreed that K6 was indeed the track for a CD-27. When the order arrived it included a 2 1/2" long sample of K6 that has a retrieval ring attached. Per their instructions we ran that sample up to the top of the slot and back down. It worked with out a hitch. Then we started to install the track. Well, you have all heard that part of the story. But here is what I have since learned:

K6.jpeg

Using their gauges, the K dimension is to gauge the width of the slot, the 6 dimension is the thickness of the lip. The dimension discrepancy is a "user supplied" dimension. The first sample that they sent was from their "discard bin" and they pay no attention to that dimension for samples supplied before ordering. We gave TM the correct dimension of .790", which agrees with Spartan Spars. Dennis Cox at TM says that they try to match the "user supplied" dimension as close as they can, so their .770" is indeed right. Why it didn't fit we might never know. All three dimensions are believed to be correct.

Dennis told me to try a come along to pull the track down an inch or two. With any luck I will try that tomorrow. What goes up MUST come down.

To be continued....