Are you prepared for a dismasting?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
Are you prepared for a dismasting?
I found this Yachting World article which some may find interesting. For those who have never given it any consideration this test may be an eye opener.
http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/sailing- ... ting-29307
http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/sailing- ... ting-29307
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
I have thought about it, although not much. I do carry bolt cutter, hacksaw and of course pliers. I certainly hope that I never need to use them. I'm getting better at reefing earlier as I get older, guess I'm not a school boy any more. Not by a long shot.
Thanks for posting!
Thanks for posting!
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- Posts: 518
- Joined: Jun 1st, '13, 17:05
- Location: CD 31. #33 "Glissade"
Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
What a great test.
We learned that our non-cam action bolt cutters may not be good for more than one or two pieces of wire. We also learned that we need a better hacksaw. Gees, we didn't know they made S/S hack saw blades - what a great idea!
We just read that Lenox makes a bimetal blade to cut tough stainless. Wonder if it works?
We have no idea what the stick weighs on a CD 31, heavier than we can handle, we're sure.
Thanks Jim for another very thought-provoking video.
Jenn and Terry
We learned that our non-cam action bolt cutters may not be good for more than one or two pieces of wire. We also learned that we need a better hacksaw. Gees, we didn't know they made S/S hack saw blades - what a great idea!
We just read that Lenox makes a bimetal blade to cut tough stainless. Wonder if it works?
We have no idea what the stick weighs on a CD 31, heavier than we can handle, we're sure.
Thanks Jim for another very thought-provoking video.
Jenn and Terry
Jennifer & Terry McAdams
Kearsarge, New Hampshire
Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia
CD 31 #33 "Glissade"
Way too many other small boats
Kearsarge, New Hampshire
Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia
CD 31 #33 "Glissade"
Way too many other small boats
Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
very good article. thanks for posting. I learned a lot. I sell German tools (power) and am always preaching it cost less in the long run to have good tools.
- David van den Burgh
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 18:54
- Location: Ariel CD36, 1979 - Lake Michigan
- Contact:
Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
Jenn and Terry,jen1722terry wrote:What a great test.
We just read that Lenox makes a bimetal blade to cut tough stainless. Wonder if it works?
Jenn and Terry
I'm not sure exactly which Lenox blade I used for Ariel's re-rigging job (I'll have to check), but it worked very well. The blade provided over 20 good, clean cuts - and quickly. I'd use it for rigging emergencies aboard in a heartbeat.
![Image](http://ariel-cd36.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_7632.jpg)
Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
I don't think this recently rescued sailor read the article in yachting world. But maybe he should have.
Coast Guard: Stranded sailor rescued from disabled boat in rough Long Island Sound
Newsday, November 14, 2015
The Coast Guard rescued a Brooklyn man stranded on a sailboat with a broken mast in rough seas in the Long Island Sound late Friday, nearly three hours after he called for help, officials said.
The 45-year-old, whose name was not released, set sail from Montauk on his way to Huntington in the 50-foot boat but encountered 5- to 8-foot seas and nearly 35 mph winds off the North Shore near Orient, said Petty Officer 2nd Class Joseph Stoltz, the lead crew member of the rescue mission.
"It was very rough sea conditions, and with the increased wind condition, it snapped his mast," Stoltz said. "He was just sitting in the seas with no propulsion. It was causing him to take water in the cabin."
His radio system inoperable, the lone occupant of the sailboat called the Southold Police Department via cellphone at 8:01 p.m., said Petty Officer 3rd Class Frank Iannazzo-Simmons, a Coast Guard spokesman.
Police relayed the distress call to the Coast Guard Sector Long Island Sound command center in New Haven, and the Station New London crew was dispatched at 8:04 p.m., he said.
Command center personnel determined an approximate location by communicating with the sailor via cellphone, Iannazzo-Simmons said.
A Jayhawk helicopter flew from Cape Cod to find the vessel and attempted to lift the sailor out of the sailboat, but sea conditions prevented that rescue attempt, Stoltz said.
Stoltz and three other crew members launched a 45-foot response boat, which took nearly two hours to reach the sailboat; and a Good Samaritan located the sailboat and helped communicate the location to the command center, Stoltz said.
Stoltz said he coordinated a "high-risk" boat-to-boat rescue. "We were at the mercy of the seas," Stoltz said. "We were not able to tow the vessel because of the sea conditions, but we thought the best thing to do was to just pull him off and get him to safety."
The sailor was rescued about 11 p.m., about 3 miles north of Orient, Long Island's northeastern tip. He was taken to Station New London and, uninjured, went to a hotel room for the night, Stoltz said.
"He was a seasoned mariner, which definitely helped him stay calm," Stoltz said. "And he was wearing all his safety gear, including his life jacket, which everyone should have on them when they go out on a vessel."
A second broadcast was put out to vessels nearby to keep an eye out for the drifting sailboat, as it continued to float in the Long Island Sound. The boat's owner contacted a commercial salvage company.
Coast Guard: Stranded sailor rescued from disabled boat in rough Long Island Sound
Newsday, November 14, 2015
The Coast Guard rescued a Brooklyn man stranded on a sailboat with a broken mast in rough seas in the Long Island Sound late Friday, nearly three hours after he called for help, officials said.
The 45-year-old, whose name was not released, set sail from Montauk on his way to Huntington in the 50-foot boat but encountered 5- to 8-foot seas and nearly 35 mph winds off the North Shore near Orient, said Petty Officer 2nd Class Joseph Stoltz, the lead crew member of the rescue mission.
"It was very rough sea conditions, and with the increased wind condition, it snapped his mast," Stoltz said. "He was just sitting in the seas with no propulsion. It was causing him to take water in the cabin."
His radio system inoperable, the lone occupant of the sailboat called the Southold Police Department via cellphone at 8:01 p.m., said Petty Officer 3rd Class Frank Iannazzo-Simmons, a Coast Guard spokesman.
Police relayed the distress call to the Coast Guard Sector Long Island Sound command center in New Haven, and the Station New London crew was dispatched at 8:04 p.m., he said.
Command center personnel determined an approximate location by communicating with the sailor via cellphone, Iannazzo-Simmons said.
A Jayhawk helicopter flew from Cape Cod to find the vessel and attempted to lift the sailor out of the sailboat, but sea conditions prevented that rescue attempt, Stoltz said.
Stoltz and three other crew members launched a 45-foot response boat, which took nearly two hours to reach the sailboat; and a Good Samaritan located the sailboat and helped communicate the location to the command center, Stoltz said.
Stoltz said he coordinated a "high-risk" boat-to-boat rescue. "We were at the mercy of the seas," Stoltz said. "We were not able to tow the vessel because of the sea conditions, but we thought the best thing to do was to just pull him off and get him to safety."
The sailor was rescued about 11 p.m., about 3 miles north of Orient, Long Island's northeastern tip. He was taken to Station New London and, uninjured, went to a hotel room for the night, Stoltz said.
"He was a seasoned mariner, which definitely helped him stay calm," Stoltz said. "And he was wearing all his safety gear, including his life jacket, which everyone should have on them when they go out on a vessel."
A second broadcast was put out to vessels nearby to keep an eye out for the drifting sailboat, as it continued to float in the Long Island Sound. The boat's owner contacted a commercial salvage company.
Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
I replaced all my standing rigging a few years ago. It was a winter project. I bought all the 1X19 wire I needed and trimmed it to the sizes I needed for the particular stay. I made a mitre box of scrap tongue and groove flooring and cut it all with a new Nicholson 32TPI hacksaw blade. It worked fine. I used Sta Lok fittings so I needed clean 90 degree cuts.
I have a large and a small pair of bolt cutters. I greased the small pair with Lubriplate and brought those with me to Bermuda, just in case.
I have a large and a small pair of bolt cutters. I greased the small pair with Lubriplate and brought those with me to Bermuda, just in case.
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
Singlehanding a 50 footer in late November at night with 35 mile an hour winds and 5 to 8 foot seas. Sounds like a case of too much money and not enough sense. Hate to be judgmental but he did not have his thinking cap on.GeorgeH wrote:I don't think this recently rescued sailor read the article in yachting world. But maybe he should have.
Coast Guard: Stranded sailor rescued from disabled boat in rough Long Island Sound
Newsday, November 14, 2015
The Coast Guard rescued a Brooklyn man stranded on a sailboat with a broken mast in rough seas in the Long Island Sound late Friday, nearly three hours after he called for help, officials said.
The 45-year-old, whose name was not released, set sail from Montauk on his way to Huntington in the 50-foot boat but encountered 5- to 8-foot seas and nearly 35 mph winds off the North Shore near Orient, said Petty Officer 2nd Class Joseph Stoltz, the lead crew member of the rescue mission.
"It was very rough sea conditions, and with the increased wind condition, it snapped his mast," Stoltz said. "He was just sitting in the seas with no propulsion. It was causing him to take water in the cabin."
His radio system inoperable, the lone occupant of the sailboat called the Southold Police Department via cellphone at 8:01 p.m., said Petty Officer 3rd Class Frank Iannazzo-Simmons, a Coast Guard spokesman.
Police relayed the distress call to the Coast Guard Sector Long Island Sound command center in New Haven, and the Station New London crew was dispatched at 8:04 p.m., he said.
Command center personnel determined an approximate location by communicating with the sailor via cellphone, Iannazzo-Simmons said.
A Jayhawk helicopter flew from Cape Cod to find the vessel and attempted to lift the sailor out of the sailboat, but sea conditions prevented that rescue attempt, Stoltz said.
Stoltz and three other crew members launched a 45-foot response boat, which took nearly two hours to reach the sailboat; and a Good Samaritan located the sailboat and helped communicate the location to the command center, Stoltz said.
Stoltz said he coordinated a "high-risk" boat-to-boat rescue. "We were at the mercy of the seas," Stoltz said. "We were not able to tow the vessel because of the sea conditions, but we thought the best thing to do was to just pull him off and get him to safety."
The sailor was rescued about 11 p.m., about 3 miles north of Orient, Long Island's northeastern tip. He was taken to Station New London and, uninjured, went to a hotel room for the night, Stoltz said.
"He was a seasoned mariner, which definitely helped him stay calm," Stoltz said. "And he was wearing all his safety gear, including his life jacket, which everyone should have on them when they go out on a vessel."
A second broadcast was put out to vessels nearby to keep an eye out for the drifting sailboat, as it continued to float in the Long Island Sound. The boat's owner contacted a commercial salvage company.
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
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- Posts: 217
- Joined: Nov 24th, '11, 08:53
- Location: 1975 CD25 239 Moon Shine
Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
[quote="jen1722terry"]What a great test.
We learned that our non-cam action bolt cutters may not be good for more than one or two pieces of wire. We also learned that we need a better hacksaw. Gees, we didn't know they made S/S hack saw blades - what a great idea!
We just read that Lenox makes a bimetal blade to cut tough stainless. Wonder if it works?
---------
I believe you will find the preferred cutter for shore use in cutting our wire with a clean square finished edge is a high speed cut off wheel, used like in a right angle grinder of drill motor. But the preferred tool in an emergency off shore to shed a broken mast laying all over, and ripping up your boat is going to be a strong, long handled cable cutter with the shearing edges, and not a bolt cutter which works in a different manner. They are not interchangeable. Think about how many mast wires you might have to cut in a hurry to save your boat from sinking in a storm, and then look back at your hacksaw.
In addition, if you think about your typical slow roll rate on your boat with the mast intact, think about how vicious your roll rate at sea might become if your mast is down, not damping that roll rate. Then think about cutting all that wire with that hacksaw.
Luckily most of us are not ever going to test our rigs for this requirement, but those who do, should go prepared.
Food for thought.
Bob C
We learned that our non-cam action bolt cutters may not be good for more than one or two pieces of wire. We also learned that we need a better hacksaw. Gees, we didn't know they made S/S hack saw blades - what a great idea!
We just read that Lenox makes a bimetal blade to cut tough stainless. Wonder if it works?
---------
I believe you will find the preferred cutter for shore use in cutting our wire with a clean square finished edge is a high speed cut off wheel, used like in a right angle grinder of drill motor. But the preferred tool in an emergency off shore to shed a broken mast laying all over, and ripping up your boat is going to be a strong, long handled cable cutter with the shearing edges, and not a bolt cutter which works in a different manner. They are not interchangeable. Think about how many mast wires you might have to cut in a hurry to save your boat from sinking in a storm, and then look back at your hacksaw.
In addition, if you think about your typical slow roll rate on your boat with the mast intact, think about how vicious your roll rate at sea might become if your mast is down, not damping that roll rate. Then think about cutting all that wire with that hacksaw.
Luckily most of us are not ever going to test our rigs for this requirement, but those who do, should go prepared.
Food for thought.
Bob C
BobC
Citrus Springs, Florida
Citrus Springs, Florida
Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
Here's what the Yachting World article had to say about cable cutters;
"Despite their size, bigger than the bolt croppers, the steel-cored aluminium handles made them much lighter, but they still required two hands. Without the mechanical advantage of the bolt croppers’ cam action, they required far greater effort"
For that reason alone I would stick with my bolt cutters. I know they can easily cut my standing rigging and neatness just doesn't count in this situation. Ease of operation and expediency are paramount. Of course I'm speaking from the point of view of a singlehander, if the vessel had a crew the choice might be different.
"Despite their size, bigger than the bolt croppers, the steel-cored aluminium handles made them much lighter, but they still required two hands. Without the mechanical advantage of the bolt croppers’ cam action, they required far greater effort"
For that reason alone I would stick with my bolt cutters. I know they can easily cut my standing rigging and neatness just doesn't count in this situation. Ease of operation and expediency are paramount. Of course I'm speaking from the point of view of a singlehander, if the vessel had a crew the choice might be different.
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
- David van den Burgh
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 18:54
- Location: Ariel CD36, 1979 - Lake Michigan
- Contact:
Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
I crewed aboard a friend's boat this summer in the Chicago-Mackinac Race. Race rules require a device for cutting away downed rigging, and the boat's owner had purchased a pair of long-handled bolt cutters. I brought over a piece of leftover 9/32" wire from re-rigging Ariel for him to test his cutters on. They barely even dented the wire - even with all of his 200+ pounds applied to the handles.
All cutters are NOT created equal. Good cutters aren't cheap. Probably a lot of sailors, like this guy, will pick up an inexpensive pair of cutters thinking that they'll do in a pinch. They won't. So, unless you're prepared to spend the money necessary for good cutters, a good hacksaw is probably the better option. At least it works. And if you do buy cutters, test them so you know what to expect.
All cutters are NOT created equal. Good cutters aren't cheap. Probably a lot of sailors, like this guy, will pick up an inexpensive pair of cutters thinking that they'll do in a pinch. They won't. So, unless you're prepared to spend the money necessary for good cutters, a good hacksaw is probably the better option. At least it works. And if you do buy cutters, test them so you know what to expect.
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Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
I hand spliced all the rigging for the Far Reach this past summer. I used 5/16" 7X7. I had to cut a lot of wire and I wanted a really good pair of cutters on the boat. I bought a pair of Swiss made Felco C-16 wire cutters. They are the Cadillac of cutters. I was told by a couple of professional riggers they are so well made you can hand them down to your grandchildren. Like any good tool, they are a pleasure to use. Highly recommended.
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Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
John,John Stone wrote:I hand spliced all the rigging for the Far Reach this past summer. I used 5/16" 7X7. I had to cut a lot of wire and I wanted a really good pair of cutters on the boat. I bought a pair of Swiss made Felco C-16 wire cutters. They are the Cadillac of cutters. I was told by a couple of professional riggers they are so well made you can hand them down to your grandchildren. Like any good tool, they are a pleasure to use. Highly recommended.
Felco is the same brand mentioned in the Yachting World article. They too agreed they are a fine tool. It's good to hear from someone within our CDSOA community who has practical experience recommend this product. Thanks.
Jim Walsh
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
Ex Vice Commodore
Ex Captain-Northeast Fleet
CD31 ORION
The currency of life is not money, it's time
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- Posts: 518
- Joined: Jun 1st, '13, 17:05
- Location: CD 31. #33 "Glissade"
Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
Granted, our lives our worth more than any tool. But 3-something seemed excessive, so we tested the cable cutter we carry on board over at the yard.
We asked the maintenance crew for some ss wire scraps for the test and they obliged. We put the cutters on the scraps and was able to snip through them on one firm snap (I'm 66 with arthritic hands). We brought the cutters home to examine with a magnifier for edge deformities and dulling. More on this later.
Oddly, I didn't check the brand of the cutters but I will. They came with the boat and the PO was a retired Navy Master Chief. I wonder where he got them?
I'm hoping also to use the cutters in my new dental practice, which I've been studying for with an on-line dental school in Kazahkstan. Any new patients our there?
Cheers, and keep on cutting!
Terry
We asked the maintenance crew for some ss wire scraps for the test and they obliged. We put the cutters on the scraps and was able to snip through them on one firm snap (I'm 66 with arthritic hands). We brought the cutters home to examine with a magnifier for edge deformities and dulling. More on this later.
Oddly, I didn't check the brand of the cutters but I will. They came with the boat and the PO was a retired Navy Master Chief. I wonder where he got them?
I'm hoping also to use the cutters in my new dental practice, which I've been studying for with an on-line dental school in Kazahkstan. Any new patients our there?
Cheers, and keep on cutting!
Terry
Jennifer & Terry McAdams
Kearsarge, New Hampshire
Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia
CD 31 #33 "Glissade"
Way too many other small boats
Kearsarge, New Hampshire
Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia
CD 31 #33 "Glissade"
Way too many other small boats
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- Posts: 3582
- Joined: Oct 6th, '08, 07:30
- Location: S/V Far Reach: CD 36 #61 www.farreachvoayges.net www.farreachvoyages.com
Re: Are you prepared for a dismasting?
I purchased the Felcos from Seaco South. I think I paid in the mid 200. They are expensive. On the other hand I built my own rig so it was well worth it.