CD 33 to much Heeling

[Pedro Aloamr]

I just bought a CD 33 hull Nº CPDU0034M81C, and I am a bit surprised how much she heels. With 12-14 Kn of real wind I have to reef. Is it Normal?, I would appreciate any coment.
Please e-mail me.

Thank you.



pmalomar@worldonline.es

[Russell]

Two points. First, the force of the wind increases with the SQUARE of its speed. 16 knot of wind has 4 times the force of 8 knot winds. There is no way around this law of nature. If a boat's working sail is adequate for 8 knots, it is overcanvassed at 16 knots. In consequence of this, a lot of boats take a first reef around 15 knots, or require some other form of depowering. Reefing is like shifting gears in your car: learn to do it, and do it when useful. I know this will get flak, but I think a boat is undercanvassed that carries working sail, fully powered, past 20 knots. The same sail configuration just can't handle a change in force by a factor of 9, between 7 knots and 21. ("Fully powered" is meant to exclude fractional rigs that depower by tightening the backstay. Cape Dories don't do this, so if you don't know what I'm talking about, don't worry.)

Second, Cape Dories are designed with fine ends, and get their righting moment from ballast rather than from beam. This means they initially heel a little more than other boats, and often sail at 15* or 20*. The upside is better motion, better manners, and greater stability as heel angle increases. If you're accustomed to a beamier boat, it may take a time or two to get used to this. But when you get blasted by a gust, and heel only a little more, and can still steer the boat, you'll understand the benefit.

[Larry DeMers]

Excellent post Russell.
If I may add one thing; Pedro, remember that heeling past about 20 deg. spills wind from the top of the sail, which results in stronger weather helm, and a slower speed, due to two things: The rudder is way off center trying to counteract the weather helm..which slows you down because the rudder then appears to be acting like a brake; and as you heel over, the wind spills out of the twist at the top of the sail, which also slows you down. So the faster solution is to keep the heeling at 15-20 deg. max., by adjusting the amount of sail up in a balanced fashion, so as to keep weather helm reasonable. It sounds complicated I suppose, but in practice, it becomes automatic.

Cheers!

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Two points. First, the force of the wind increases with the SQUARE of its speed. 16 knot of wind has 4 times the force of 8 knot winds. There is no way around this law of nature. If a boat's working sail is adequate for 8 knots, it is overcanvassed at 16 knots. In consequence of this, a lot of boats take a first reef around 15 knots, or require some other form of depowering. Reefing is like shifting gears in your car: learn to do it, and do it when useful. I know this will get flak, but I think a boat is undercanvassed that carries working sail, fully powered, past 20 knots. The same sail configuration just can't handle a change in force by a factor of 9, between 7 knots and 21. ("Fully powered" is meant to exclude fractional rigs that depower by tightening the backstay. Cape Dories don't do this, so if you don't know what I'm talking about, don't worry.)

Second, Cape Dories are designed with fine ends, and get their righting moment from ballast rather than from beam. This means they initially heel a little more than other boats, and often sail at 15* or 20*. The upside is better motion, better manners, and greater stability as heel angle increases. If you're accustomed to a beamier boat, it may take a time or two to get used to this. But when you get blasted by a gust, and heel only a little more, and can still steer the boat, you'll understand the benefit.

demers@sgi.com

[Liz Robinson]

Hi, now for my two cents...
When we bought our 33 (hull #9) she carried REALLY OLD SAILS and we heeled like a son of a you know what. I was quite disappointed because we would be over on our ears in 15-ish knots when everyone carrying full sail flew past us. I agree wholeheartedly with the other two comments, but I must wonder if you have old, baggy sails like we did. After we replaced the main and genoa with brand spanking new sails not only did we heel MUCH LESS but our speed increased substantially. I must add that the main is full-battened, too, which really helps. It sounds so simple and logical, but I still see lots of people out there flogging old, finished sails as we fly past them with our new sails trimmed just so... The cost involved is more than made up for by performance and our CD needs all the performance she can get. We always chuckle to ourselves when people at our marina brag about having "the original sails". They can keep them...

happy sailing!!!!

Liz R.

[mike]

Pedro,

First congrat on buying the finest boat afloat!

I echo Larry, Russell and Liz's posted excellent replies to your questions.

IMHO, I firmly believe,after 8,000nm, in the fully battened main. I have gone one step farther and installed batt cars and it made all the difference in the ease of reefing.

With lazy jacks, harken batt cars and the full battens I find it's much easier to reef. Before the cars and battens I used to put off reefing to the last minute, now it's much easier and my speed and comfort have increased.

Good luck with your new Cape.

sea u,
mike



mpr@seascan.com

[Richard Stanley]

This is precisely why I asked about staysail options.

I definitely tuck in a the first reef at 15-18 knots. I loved the comment about reefing is like shifting gears. That is so true. The boat just doesn't work when your not showing the correct amount of canvas.

My girlfriend is concerned about summers in SF Bay with 25-30 being standard afternoon fair. The Richard Stanley Sailing School will have her up working the sail next season. The time has come to move out of the cockpit.



rlstanley@mindspring.com

[len]

i find i need full sails only in light wind, as others have said, i put the first reef in the main at about 15 kn of wind - i also found new sails added a full knot to my speed - i have a monitor wind vane and have found the boat sails better with less canvas and looser sheets - it's exciting to have water in the cockpit but slower - so don't worry about reefing, don't ask the boat to do what she wasn't designed for and she'll never disappoint you



md.frel@nwh.org

[Pedro Alomar]

I just bought a CD 33 hull Nº CPDU0034M81C, and I am a bit surprised how much she heels. With 12-14 Kn of real wind I have to reef. Is it Normal?, I would appreciate any coment.
Please e-mail me.

Thank you.

Thanks you all for your comments:

Still like these, at the Med that variations are so quick and inpredictable, it's a nuissance that she heels so quick for that
little wind.
Of course I do reef earlier with the CD than with my former boats, I just wonder if that was normal. The former owner a
british man had the septic tank full of extra chain, so that give me some wonders about the use of the place did him so to
have an extra weight?.
I had a Racing boat at the end of the seventies, a Rond Holland 33, After I went cruising around the world with a Hallberg Rassy 41. And After selling her I got that CD for doing solo navigation, and the first thing I did notice That I will have to change gear very often, she is not an automatic car.
Any way I might buy a full batten main and get used to reef earlier.
You are well come to Majorca (The Med.) to sail with me when ever happens that you do show here around.
The former american owner of my CD 33 Friendly Bear was: Mr. Joseph E. Thompson from Miami, could any you put me in contact with him
Have a Nice day Pedro



pmalomar@worldonline.es