CD25 vs. CD25D vs. CD26

[casampson]

Although a little voice in the back of my head keeps telling me that I'm crazy, I'm thinking about upgrading my Typhoon to one of these boats. They all seem very attractive to me, but for different reasons. If anyone has any thoughts on which one may be superior to the others, I would appreciate hearing them. I would use the boat mostly for daysailing, with a very occasional overnight thrown in for good measure. Non-CD boats that I like very much include the Sea Sprite 23 and the Stone Horse 23.

Thanks very much.

[Gary M]

Hi Sampson,

For daysailing and a few overnights thrown in, I would add a Ty Senior and a CD22 to your list.

Since I'm not a fan of outboards in a well I would go for the CD25D, money not being an issue.

The CD22 has an outboard but not in a well, doesn't look as nice but it is practical.

If I were in your shoes and money was not the issue, I'm looking at CD25D, if I didn't think I needed that much boat I would go with a CD22.

[steveg]

All three are a bit more boat than the Typhoon. All are easily single handled. All can be launched and rigged with a good trailer and some patience, although not really trailer sailors.

The 25 is more of a camper. The V berth is only useful for storage, unless you are one of particularly modest proportions. It sails well and is quite maneuverable under power as long as there is some pivot of the outboard in the well. There were many more 25's built, consequently they are more available and less expensive.

The 25D and the 26 are about the same size. The primary difference between the two being layout and outboard vs diesel. The 25D has a spacious head in the bow. There is no V berth. It is great for one or two. The large head and standing headroom (5' 11") make it comfortable for longer periods when compared with the 25. The 25D has the Yanmar 1 GM inboard.

The 26, while the same size for all practical purposes has a V berth and an outboard well. This has some advantages in terms of a separate sleeping area, not exactly sure of the size of the berths there, at the sacrifice of the larger head area.

At the point that I was looking, my preference was the 26. The reason being it would be far easier to replace the engine if necessary and considerably less expensive to do so. It ended up that the first of either which was in very good condition would be the one. This was due to the fact that at my location neither were readily available in close proximity. The 25D appeared first and was in decent shape. While initially a little cautious about the little diesel it has turned out to be a good engine. It is loud but quite efficient. It seems it gets somewhere near three hours to the gallon. It is not as maneuverable as the outboard. Backing can be a bit tricky without a little planning and awareness of the tendency to back to starboard. Overall the 25D has been very satisfactory. The Admiral really enjoys the spacious head. It is possible to launch and rig the 25D from a trailer at a decent launch. It would get old doing so every week, but it certainly saves when compared to having it done by a yard.

Given that there were something less than 200 of each of the 25D and the 26, you do not see them on the market as often as the 25's. I think seven or eight hundred of the 25's were manufactured if memory serves me well. At approximately 5,100 pounds they are about a thousand pounds larger than the 25 and have the feel of a much larger boat. The 25 has about 5' headroom and can feel a little cramped down below when there for any length of time. The cockpit of the 25 and the 25D are almost exactly the same size, with the 25D being just a little wider.

As with any vessel, they are all a compromise. It just depends on what characteristics are most important to you and what you are willing to sacrifice at the expense of something else. My advice is to go for the first 25D of 26 you come across that is in very good condition. If two boats are equal in condition then go with the one better equipped. Ideally if you could get a fresh water boat it will probably have seen less wear and tear.

Hopefully this is somewhat helpful.

[tjr818]

Typhoon = Happiness; CD27 = Great Happiness
That being said, you can hardly go wrong with any of those choices.
Although a 25D or a 27 can be trailered, I wouldn't want to do that very often, or for much distance.
Happy hunting..

[pete faga]

Casampson
There is a 25d for sale in p town
Check the boats for sale section
Reasonably priced and close to you
Pete

[Paul Clayton]

I can only speak about the CD25. It is a wonderful, forgiving, easy to sail boat, an ideal day-sailor. It sails well in winds and seas, though it throws a lot of spray over the bow and is wet. The cabin is tight, but good for a couple of days. If you have done any backpacking, you will find a CD25 is a heck of a lot more comfortable than a mountain tent. The motor in a well has a couple of advantages over an inboard - you can pull it out and service it on a motor rack ashore, and if you have to replace it, it is a whole lot easier and less expensive than digging a diesel out from under the bridge deck. And because they built over 800 of these things, they are plentiful and cheap. But I wouldn't try to trailer one - stepping the mast and rigging one would be a job outside of a boatyard. This boat needs to live in a marina or on a mooring.

Incidentally, mine is for sale, as I get close to retirement and need a bigger boat for weeks or months long trips. It's in North Carolina, and is listed in the boats for sale section of this board.

[pete faga]

Paul
Nicely stated regarding the 25 vs.25d vs 26
Good luck on your next boat(cd?)

[pjust]

A few days ago I went for a sail with a friend who had recently upsized from a Typhoon to a CD25. It's a lovely boat. I want one. It's much roomier than the Ty and really is suitable for one- or two-person shorthaul cruising and yet has virtually the same draft. We had occasion to use the outboard in the well, which proved easy. The biggest difference I noticed was that the longer keel gave the 25 a significantly smoother motion. Seas that make my shorter Ty pitch like a hobbyhorse were taken more easily in stride by the CD25. I like the lines of my Ty better, but the CD25 is a joy to sail in.

[tjr818]

I can only speak about the CD25. It is a wonderful, forgiving, easy to sail boat, an ideal day-sailor. It sails well in winds and seas, though it throws a lot of spray over the bow and is wet. . . .

Out in our 27 yesterday, 15 to 20 kts, we took lots of spray over the bow. My 1st Mate huddled close behind using the skipper as a spray shield Don't blame that on the 25. Just be thankful for the warm weather. In November spray is not much fun.

[casampson]

So I am taking the advice posted here and am going to go look at a CD22 this weekend (as well as a nice Sea Sprite 23). My question regarding the CD22 is that I noticed it has a masthead rig, whereas the Typhoon is fractional. Can anyone explain why they are different, and what effects the two rigs have on performance? I'm also curious as to why the Typhoon Senior has so much more ballast than the CD22, although total displacement is about the same.

Thanks very much.

Chris

[Paul Clayton]

Fractional rigs go to windward better. Your main is the windward sail and a fractional rig has a proportionally bigger main. They are also easier to tack since there is not so much jib to pull through. Also, not so liable to round up into the wind (less weather helm). On the other hand, you need runners going downwind because the force of the jib is not at the top of the mast. A small boat with less force doesn't need runners, but a big cruiser would. So fractional rigs are common on small racers, dinghies, etc while masthead rigs are common on cruisers. Also, I would want some weather helm on a cruiser for safety. One other factor would be that a fractional rig sets the mainmast a bit forward of where it would be on a masthead, allowing more cockpit room on a small boat. Just my two cents, I'm not a naval architect.

[trapper]

Oh they are all wonderful. I have owned a Ty day sailer, Ty weekender, and a CD22. Currently, I own a CD25D and a CD10 (I also own a Pearson Ensign, Alberg design, that I race). I love to sail a Ty, but if you want to spend the night, they are a little basic for my taste. The Ty Sr. is more comfortable. The CD22 is a huge upgrade. When you go below in a CD22, it is just like the big boats only small. Great for overnights and simply beautiful! They are easy to handle and easy to trailer. They are marginally harder to launch than a Ty. Generally, the CD22 has a #1 and a working jib. On most of them, you reef by turning the boom. The masthead rig is easy to handle if you remember to reduce the headsail area when it blows. If you are not very experienced, you will find it a significant upgrade from the TY but not much harder to handle. I have not sailed a CD25 but I can comment on the 25D and 25.

Ty to 25D or 26 is a huge upgrade from the CD22 in terms of handling and maintenance. The 25D and 26 are serious boats. I have a trailer for my CD25D, but I sure do not dry sail it. I sometime dry sail my Ensign, but the 25D and 26 take a serious truck to launch and retrieve. I guess if you had a Ford 2500 or something similar and could leave the mast up, dry sailing would be doable but a pain! When it blows over 15 in a 25D you can really feel the power is significantly greater than the Ty or CD22. They are harder to dock, they have systems like the big boats (at least mine does)--marine air conditioning, electric water, auto pilot, head with holding tank, diesel engine, and the list goes on. The more systems--the more you have to maintain.

I don't know much about the 25 but there is one at our club and it has significantly less free board than the 25D--it is a much smaller boat. I have not been below but I suspect that it may be similar to the CD22 but with a engine well (the CD22 also came in a CD22D version with a yanmar 1gm--the 26 also came as a 26D with a 2 cylinder diesel engine).

I can tell you this, whenever I see a Ty going out I want to ask if I can go too. I sometime pine for my CD22. They are rare and I miss mine. I love my 25D and she will be my last cruising boat. Good luck to you! Alberg is my hero! He did not design the 25, but the CD25 is very much like his designs and very well built. IMHO, you are marching down the right road--Cape Dory all the way!

[bhartley]

As an owner of a Cape Dory 25D and a Sea Sprite 23 and a former Typhoon owner, I feel qualified to respond...

I loved our Ty, but I opted to keep the Sea Sprite over the Typhoon. With a chop (or power boat wakes), the SS23 is a lot more comfortable and drier than the Ty. The SS23 has more sail area than the 25D and you must be prepared to reef early and often. We only have a single reef and it isn't very deep so I often sail with just the penny if I am alone and the wind is up. She sails just fine with the genoa alone although she won't point.

The Ty and SS23 both sail great in light air. the 25D is a LOT heavier and is less enjoyable in light air. I heavy air, the 25D is a beast and can handle anything and keep you dry (lots of freeboard) in the process. I single hand a lot so in a blow, the 25D is very steady. All three are typical Alberg designs which heel over a good ways and then just hum along regardless of the conditions (with some sensible reefing). You just get a lot wetter in the Ty and SS23.

The cockpit in the Ty and SS23 are about the same size. The 25D cockpit is slightly smaller, but the cabin is (of course) what you are gaining. We sail our SS23 and former Ty up in Marblehead, MA while the 25D is on a lake in Georgia. We get lots of thunderstorms during the spring and summer and the ability to drop a hook and hang out down below while the storm passes is great -- especially when sailing with nervous guests. I personally (as a woman) love to have the full head forward. I am not overly modest, but it is a lot more convenient than the port-potty on the Ty or SS23. Our guests at the lake like to be able to change in privacy too (mostly in and out of swim suits).

I would give serious consideration to the SS23 if you're considering the Cape Dory 25. You will pay a premium for the Cape Dory and the 22s and 26s (along with the 25Ds) are in much shorter supply. I absolutely love my SS23 (yes it is MINE and not ours...) and have no regrets about the Typhoon sale. My husband voted for the Ty but is now in agreement that for our sailing conditions in Salem/Beverly/Marblehead area, I made the right decision. She is beautiful and fast...

If you need comfort down below and are looking to stay smaller, you can't beat the 25D. We are two people and the "accommodations" are perfect for us. We have slept 3 several times with very close friends, but I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time with two teens and two adults for any length of time. Then again I am old and crotchety.

The other plus on going one size larger than the Ty (Sr., 22, SS23 or otherwise) is not having to close the seacocks with four people in the cockpit. We had to strategically plan arrivals to the boat to be sure they are closed before a heavier friend stepped aboard.

I had to choose one "child" to sell off. Hopefully I won't have to make that decision again. I'm not sure which one I could give up.

Good luck in your search!

Bly