CD 27 Parital Deck Recore

[gates_cliff]

I'd guess most of you are familiar with Tim Lackey's site, Northern Yacht Restoration. I look at it every now and then and see that he just finished some work on a lovely CD 27. Wish mine looked as good.

Anyway, it's interesting, here's the link:

http://www.lackeysailing.com/angelina/angelina.htm

[drysuit2]

I love this guys site. It's like boat porn.

[moctrams]

The guy used balsa. The folks I know use the foam.

[Steve Laume]

The guy used balsa. The folks I know use the foam.

Traditionalist!

Hey the old stuff lasted 25 years or so. I still see good yards using balsa for repairs. Done right, with epoxy around any penetrations it should last as long as the rest of the boat, Steve.

[Cathy Monaghan]

Bruce and I are in the process of replacing the core of our boat's cockpit sole. The top layer of fiberglass has been removed (it's 1/4" thick by the way) as well as the core. It's interesting to note that Cape Dory used both end-grain balsa and plywood for the coring in the cockpit. It's balsa in the forward part of the sole, from the bridge deck back about 18", and plywood from there aft. So the hardware for the steering pedestal, pedestal guard and inspection plate for the the rudder post are all thru-bolted through the plywood part of the cockpit.

For anyone that's wondering, the original coring (both the plywood and the balsa) in the cockpit sole is 1/2" and the bottom fiberglass skin is another 1/4" (at least) of fiberglass. And on our boat (CD32), there's another 1/2" piece of plywood epoxied to the underside of the sole in the area directly beneath the steering pedestal.

I've already replaced the forward section of the core (forward of the pedestal) with new exterior plywood. I used 3/8" plywood and am following Don Casey's method of core replacement that he describes in his book This Old Boat. So there are two new layers of fiberglass mat on top of the bottom fiberglass skin, the new core above that, and 3 layers of fiberglass mat above that. The old fiberglass top skin was saved and reinstalled on top of that. The next step, once we've recored the entire sole, is to bevel the edges of all the seams (total bevel about 5") and fill the bevel with layers of fiberglass mat, cloth and of course resin. Then fair it, paint it, and apply the new non-skid.

We're recoring the sole one half at a time so that we have some place to walk, move around and work. Anyway, the forward half has been recored, now we have to start on the aft half. Our extremely wet, cool spring delayed much of our work. Now it's getting too hot. I'm not sure we'll finish this project in time for the summer boating season. If we can't stand the heat, we may wait until fall to complete this project. We'll see.

-Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Warren S]

I was unaware of the site. And boat porn drysuit? Count me in.

[gates_cliff]

Cathy,

How did you install the glass underneath the cockpit? I did some work in the port cockpit locker when I bought the boat and was just barely able to fit into it, I cannot imagine being able to do any fiberglass work from underneath cockpit sole. Or maybe I'm missing something.

[hilbert]

Are most older boats in this condition?

I have to believe that this is so from what I have seen of the factory installed hardware. I have replaced the core in the cockpit floor, seat covers and now I am working my way around the deck.

It would sure be nice to have a dry shed to work in.

[gates_cliff]

If you find a dry shed please see if there's room for one more!!!!!

Once, when I was restoring a Kittiwake, I bought one of those fabric garages from Costco, it was just big enough to enclose the boat. Worke fine for about a year or 2 but then deteroriated, if I could/would have worked faster it would be have been fine. I saw at the yard where I keep my boat, Shipwright Harbor in Deale, someone had erected a framework of PVC pipes over a big power boat. Seems like a good idea. Not sure how long the yeard would tolerate it though.

[gates_cliff]

Well update on this thread.

When I bought my boat I had a survey done. The surveyor found two spots that needed deck recoreing. Not too long after I took possession I found a place in Deale, MD that would do the work. Well....they did some of the work somewhat, then went out of business. The two areas had been recored but not painted or anything. So, I primed the areas but hadn't top coated them.

So now a couple of years later I find that the work wasn't done very well. My fault for not being more meticulous. I talked with the yard where I currently have my boat, trying to get a ball park figure for what it would cost to redo the previous work and to fix some other areas that need it. The owner of the yard took a look at my boat did some tapping, found a few more questionable areas. He said the going rate to remove all hardware, etc, fix the areas needing it, prep, prime, paint with Awlgrip, rebed and reinstall hardware was about $300 per foot, so about $8,000. That price includes the deck, cabin, cockpit, everything from the toerail up.

I have no idea if this reasonable. As I've mentioned before, I am working on a contract that has me away from home most of the time, so I only get up here a couple of weekends a month, so trying to do the work myself is out of the question.

I'd appreciate any feedback, up to and including "Are you out of your mind?"

[Jerry Hammernik]

I'd contact Tim Lackey and ask him if he thought the price was reasonable. He's very good about sharing knowledge even with folks far outside his area.

[hilbert]

I added up the hours for the restoration you referenced of the CD27, http://www.lackeysailing.com/angelina/angelina.htm.
Northern Yacht Restoration documented the restoration at 90.75 hours. They charge $90/hour at my boat yard, so 90.75hr * $90/hr = $8167.50 (just labor before materials).

Not all work is equal. Some thoughts off the top of my head:
* Does it make sense to charge by the foot? Deck rot will very greatly from boat to boat and repairing core is time consuming.
* Do they have indoor facilities? It is hard to achieve quality results when working outside.
* Is there one skilled worker who will do the work from start to completion, or will the work be assigned to whoever is available that day according to whats pressing at the moment?
* Can they provide references of similar jobs?

This probably would not be a good financial investment, but boats really aren't about that.
Maybe you could find the time between contracts for an "adventure" to sail/motor the boat up to Tim Lackey's site in Maine.
With Tim Lackey you know what your getting, "One Man ... One Boat at a Time".

[gates_cliff]

I had corresponded with Tim Lackey a few times previously and prompted by the suggestion above, reached out to him again. He graciously took the time to reply. He felt the price was in line with what he'd estimate. The thoroughness of his work is such that I'd prefer to have him do the work. So, I looked into what it would cost to ship my boat up there, well that was prohibitive! Having the time to sail up there would be a dream come true for me, but right now, just not in the cards.

The yard does have a heated boat hangar where they paint, etc so if I do ultimately decide to go forward I can wait until the later in the year.

Thanks for all your thoughts.