Ty hull deformation from trailer

[swparis85]

Hi All,
My dad gave me his Ty. She sat, neglected, on a homemade cradle for a long time, and is in need of serious repair.
She is now sitting pretty on a triad trailer, and my goal is to get her in the water this summer. I'm a grad student, and don't have much $$ to work with unfortunately.

My biggest concern at the moment are these deformations in the hull caused by the uneven and heavy load the hull was under while sitting on the trailer. I've seen some suggestions such as in this thread:
http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... hull#p5620
but the prognosis offered seems dire!

I've heard people say that the fiberglass could 'relax' and resume its original form, but that seems unlikely to me. I've had her sitting on her new Triad trailer for a few months now, supported laterally by only the two bow poppets, praying that the hull will return to original shape, but no luck

My thoughts now turn to some sort of compressed member to push the hull back into shape, and reinforce it there.
I'm imagining something that braces against the hull and the cockpit seat? something that functions like the turnbuckles pictured below, but with a large pad that goes against the hull, and I guess something to hold it in place against the underside of the cockpit bench? Does that sound like a horrible idea? Any and all ideas appreciated.

-Steve

[RLW]

Steve...

Do you have any detailed photos of the deformity?

[swparis85]

A few more pics.




The pics all show the port quarter, where the damage is the worst. The stbd qtr also has the same deformation, but not as bad.
I think i'm in for a long journey to get her back in the water :/

[Paul D.]

I cannot see the added picts but I had the very same issue on my old Typhoon. (See Good Old Boat Circa 2000: A Typhoon of a Refit) You can get hull deformations out but you'll need some time, heat and leverage.

Our old Typhoon had about a 1" deep depression from sitting improperly on the trailer. The area was about eight inches in an oval shape with a bit of a crease in the middle of it. After asking around on this board I brought it into my brother's garage/shop and put a couple shop lights near the spot for some heat (not too close, I would be able to keep my hand on the hull but she'd be quite warm) and propped a 2x4 below with a basement jack to add pressure to the area and force it back out. She sat that way for about a week. Each day I would crank the jack a wee bit to keep up the pressure.

Worked great and by the time I was done with restoring her - about two full weeks pretty much full time - you could barely see the depression. The boat is now owned by a friend and I don't think I could find it now.

Good luck. She's worth your time and effort. I just saw a Typhoon on Craig's List here in Mpls for $6,700. A real beauty. My neighbors may convince me to go in on her. But I cannot justify two boats. Not that there's anything wrong with that!

[SAIL1]

If there are no cracks in the fiberglass, I would be inclined to leave it as is....the natural flexing of the hull under sail should tend to restore it to it's original shape over time.....

[swparis85]

Thanks for your tip Paul. I had not considered using heat in combination with pressure. Sounds like a good idea.

Unfortunately, the boat is parked at my mom's, about 3 hours away. I live in Shenandoah, and there's just no way I could get a trailer that large down my dirt road and then backed into my lot
Makes the whole "i think i'd like to go work on the boat this weekend" absurdly complicated.

(I have uploaded the pics to the forum now, so hopefully they show)

Sure you can have two boats! I have 4 motorcycles, and they each put me in a different mood: cruising, speeding, puttering... variety is the spice of life or so they say....

[Sea Hunt Video]

Steve:

FWIW, before doing anything else or making any decisions on repairs, etc., I would give your Ty a very thorough bath (inside and out; scrub behind the ears, etc. ) It is amazing what you will see (good and bad) after a really intense cleaning. If you have access to one, a high PSI power washer would be a good choice. If something is weak, broken, rusted, rotted, whatever, it is best if it shows itself now with a power wash.

Several years ago I saw a truly horrible looking sailboat (not sure make, model; about 26') hauled out at a local marina. It had barnacles, coral, sea grass, mold, mildew; you name it and it was attached to the hull, topsides, deck, etc. It was basically a "derelict" sailboat. Then a guy with a power washer spent about three (3) hours on her. The difference was almost unbelievable. There were some things he could not power wash out but 95% came off.

I recommend a good "bath" for your Ty before anything else. Then you can assess her needs.

[swparis85]

yes, 'thorough bath' is putting it mildly! since the pictures in the previous post, I have pressure washed most of the boat, blasting off years of mold and lichen. (yes, she sat for so long without moving that LICHENS were growing on the deck?!) I stayed well away from the teak with the nozzle, so I will have to go back and rewash those areas once I get all the wood off.
The black mold in the cabin is still there- dad recommends a medium strength bleach solution and elbow grease. sounds like fun.... or NOT! (btw- if anyone has a recommendation for a pump that I can stick in the bilge and leave running while I'm doing all this interior washing, I'd be grateful)
There were a few areas, especially in the cockpit, where I got a little too close with the wand and blasted some pits into the gelcoat. I'm thinking these are spots where water was able to get behind the gelcoat from sitting full of water for so long, and then I popped them open with the pressure washer? they don't appear to be deep, or compromise the strength.

I had a great experience redoing the teak on a balboa 26 back when I was in Boy Scouts... even though there's not much wood on a balboa, she looked 1000x better after getting some nice teak color back on the deck. I'm hopeful that I can do the same to this Ty. I do love Alberg's design. I'm especially excited to redo the toelines... who doesn't like turning heads in the harbor?

I appreciate all the feedback from fellow forum members. I read an earlier thread, from way back when, where someone else mentioned the same problem with indentations on the quarters from a bad trailer. There were some posts saying that the indentations would negatively affect the handling. Can anyone speak on that issue? I can understand how the hydrodynamics of the hull might be affected, but the Ty is such a little tank, I can't imagine that I'm going to be fighting her for control due to a slight deformation in the hull like this.

[Jeff D]

I can't offer any help in regard to the hull deformation, but for the mold and mildew try ZEP mold and mildew remover - available at HD. We have a bunch of heavy plastic outdoor furniture (white) that get pretty bad by the end of the winter. I tried many things including strong bleach solutions, but none took off all the mildew. You spray the ZEP on, scrub with a soft brush and rinse. Most of the mildew comes off immediately, the rest disappears after an hour (I don't know how that works). I'm sure it would take care of your interior.

[joemerchant]

Structurally, you are probably OK. You are going to have to get creative, though, on the cheap.

The cradle has settled over many years where the side supports took most of the weight. You have to fix that first. You will need to carefully jack up the boat and get the keel supported, then work on the cradle. You can build a new cradle around the rotting one, preferably out of steel. If the trailer is still salvageable, you can build adjustable stands and pads welded to the trailer one side at a time and deconstruct the old cradle around it. The boat is supposed to be sitting with most of the weight on the keel and the sides of the cradle should really not be handling lateral loads and mainly horizontal (keep her standing up).

At the cheapest, you need to get the boat up and keel supported, build out the support with long boards to carry the load over a wider portion.

Friends of ours built a couple A Frames to hoist the boat up to switch from cradle to trailer. I am not that brave, but was when I was your age. Then rent or borrow a trailer to get it out of there to a more appealing place to work on your dream.

If time is on your side and you will not be moving it anytime soon, you can push it back out the same way it went in, but from the inside using blocks and a jack. After getting the cradle worked out you may find, once the weight is off, she will work back. But if there is still a big sag, set the jack up with a board(s) going into the area past the dent and give the jack a pump every week or so and it will work back the same slow way it was created - over time. A heat gun will make it go faster, but may delaminate the glass and gel. Same goes for too much force with the jacks from the inside.

But, you may find it pops out on it's own once you get the cradle sorted out, or at least enough that you can live with.

[Skeep]

Returning to your initial post, so you're a Grad student and Dad gave you this boat hmmm? What did you do to deserve this depth of boat rehabilitation? Did you miss a loan payment or something? Or, maybe your dad knows you work harder when you multi-task?

In any event, you've got some sage advice above, and I have nothing better to offer, nor would I suggest anything. These gentlemen speak from more years of experience than mine. That compressed hull made me shudder! But these guys on the board are a wealth of information and will guide you through the passage.

However, one thing I do know, you've got a gem in the rough! Hope you are successful! We will follow your efforts.

[tjr818]

...There were some posts saying that the indentations would negatively affect the handling. Can anyone speak on that issue? I can understand how the hydrodynamics of the hull might be affected, but the Ty is such a little tank, I can't imagine that I'm going to be fighting her for control due to a slight deformation in the hull like this.

I am not an NA, but I cannot believe that those deformations will affect the handling of your Typhoon until something above 10kts, which a Ty is never going to achieve. I would not worry about the deformations unless they were close enough to the rudder post to cause some binding. Clean it up, fix what you can and go sailing.

[RLW]

I'm going through some of the same processes with my project, specifically the cleaning and refinishing.

To your question about a pump...A basic sump pump lowered into the bilge will take care of whatever you can pump in. Cheap ones are available at Harbor Freight and other usual discount retailers. Its handy to have one around anyway in the event family, friends or neighbors get into a flood threat for one reason or another. I have also used a garden hose to siphon out the bilge with good results if you don't need the larger (faster) capacity.

I am in the process of preparing for topside paint, but I too longed for better a looking toe rail. So I detoured, and now have three coats of Cetol light on my stripped and sanded teak. Makes approaching the project more fun to see some early results. Now back to filling, fairing, and painting!

Good luck with your hull shape. My suggestion is to prepare and then use the boat and be patient, something that is difficult for many of us. Time has a way of letting some problems take care of themselves!

[Paul D.]

Steve,

I second all the comments on cleaning. My Ty looked very close to yours when we dragged her out of a field and a few hours with a bucket and hose, some bleach, dishwashing soap and a brush and I swear the boat was worth over a thousand bucks more. Do not give up hope!

We didn't think to use a power washer, so old fashioned soogee (gallon of water, some dish soap and cup or two of bleach - I ain't shy on the chemicals man!) worked really well inside and out. You can then really see what sort of glass/paint work is needed. Warning. For a few days after, I found cuts and scrapes all over my body that I didn't remember getting from that job.

I can see the pictures you posted now and I really believe that indent will come out with some heat and pressure. Don't worry about getting it perfect, just move it along within the time you have and then let the rest work itself out. Fiberglass is moveable. Our 33 moves every time she's in and out of the water. On the cradle, which I am embarrassed to say is the original wooden shipping cradle from 1982, seems to pinch her hull. The engine compartment cover section under the companionway is always tighter when on the hard. A few days after launch however, it's fit is perfect, telling me the hull actually spreads outward a bit in the water.

Please feel free to private message me through this board. Discussing any restoration topics by phone may be very helpful to you. It was to me from members of this board when I was fitting out our Typhoon, and I am happy to help get another Typhoon on the water.

And remember, here is what she can look like. This one is for sale here in Minneapolis for $6,700. You're innocent when you dream...

[swparis85]

Thanks for the tips and tricks, all.
Paul, that is an interesting note about the engine cover on your 33. I did not think there would be any give or take in the hull between being on the hard or in the water, but a few people have mentioned to me that glass will 'relax' when it's in the water. Hopefully a little gentle pressure over time is all I need here.
I don't have a lick of experience working with fiberglass, and it feels daunting still. I have Allan Vaitses book on fiberglass repair, which i'm slowly leafing through, although I'm hoping I won't have to put it into practice.