Rough seas=full bilge on spring delivery

[Ben Coombs]

Yesterday I sailed our 25 from South Portland, ME, across Casco Bay to the New Meadows River where we moor her in the summer. The forecasted N wind turned NNE and picked up rather than abating. We motor sailed on a nice tack from Peaks, past Jewell, on a track towards Small point. We made 5.7 and up till about Bailey Island. It had been rolling, with some wind waves, but not rough. At this point the wind picked up and within a half hour it became uncomfortable and we dropped sails and pounded our way in under power. Towards smoother water.

All this time the motor well was full, as it always is when in gear. While motor sailing, the water ran up the hull like water sloshing in a bucket. At the end of the trip. 26 NM total. I found the bilge full! I have had that before. But not for years, and I can tell that fix is still solid. All the thru hulls are dry and solid. Could it be leaking through the rudder sleeve? That's the only other way in.

Thoughts?

I also had a lee helm problem, l will address that in another thread... Just wanted you all to be thinking.
Thanks for any and all ideas.

[pete faga]

Ben
How about the cockpit lockers?
Wet or dry?

[Ben Coombs]

Lockers were dry...

[pete faga]

Ben
Do you have any holes in the bulkhead between the engine well and the cockpit lockers? Do you have the drain plug in the well on or leave open?

[Ben Coombs]

There used to be a pulled up section of tabbing that was a hole into the bilge. That was fixed and has been watertight for a few years now. No sign of it not being still solid.

I leave the plug out of the well drain. Also, there is no liner in my motor well. So I have access to all the surfaces in there. I have contemplated glassing boxes in there to add buoyancy to the stern. So it doesn't big down under power. Also as a place to strap down fuel tanks.

[joemerchant]

Check your packing for the rudder. Rudder packing is usually overlooked.

Another less obvious thing to check is your bilge pump hoses, especially if you do not have anti-siphon attached and/or routed well over the waterline. Can get essentially scooped in and enough siphon to pull it to the bilge before the stern comes back out of the water with a wave. Cure is to route the line higher with an anti-siphon at the top.

[Carl Thunberg]

The CD25 is not a complicated boat. There are very few points of entry for water, and there is no deep bilge. This is an awful lot of water to be leaking through the rudder post, so the leak would have to be noticeable for that volume of water.

Do you have an electronic bilge pump? My (and Jeff Benagh's) former CD25 only had a Whale Gusher manual bilge pump. If you have an electronic bilge pump, and it happens to kick on while the bilge pump discharge through-hull is submerged, it can initiate a siphon, sucking ocean water back into the bilge. If that is your problem, the easiest way to avoid this ever happening again is to shut the bilge pump off at the panel while under sail. This happened to me once in my former CD30. Once I got in the habit of turning off the bilge pump while under sail, the problem never re-occurred. Yes, you can get an anti-siphon, but they are not fool-proof, and the CD25 doesn't allow for an elevated bilge pump hose.

If the answer to the electronic bilge pump question is "no", then you may be back to the rudder packing theory.

[Ben Coombs]

No 12v pump... If I did, I'd put it high in the motor well to drain there. Avoiding ocean contact.

There is also no packing for this rudder. It's metal tube glassed in place. The top of the tube is visible in the cockpit. I worry that is cracked and leaking...

I have had a pump ready to install for years. I guess it's time to put it in!

[Carl Thunberg]

I know exactly the wad of fiberglass you're talking about. I've often wondered how that is actually sealed. There probably is a packing gland under that wad of fiberglass. If it's cracked and leaking, then it should leak all the time, if it's below the waterline. It's been a long time since I sold my CD25, so I don't remember if this is below the waterline or not. It's easy to inspect if you're 8 years old and can get in there .

[Astronomertoo]

[quote="Carl Thunberg"]The CD25 is not a complicated boat. There are very few points of entry for water, and there is no deep bilge.
------d

Hmm, one of us might have had or has an unusual CD25. Bilges are one of my favorite subjects at this time, and I am following this closely. I too need to know the answers to this topic so I can inspect similar issues on my own new-to-me 25, not ready to go sailing yet. I do need to add several related bilge questions or points here, which some of you may have answers for.
I think my 1975 25 is (almost) normal, the aft bilge goes down to near the bottom of the keel just in front of the rudder, and when I arrived home after purchasing the boat on the trailer, it had water up to the cabin floor, it was a lot of water, and I considered that fairly deep. I did not expect that, and neither pump worked. The pickup strainer at the bottom of the hose for the manual gusher 10 in the port locker goes all the way down there. The electric bilge pump was not down there but was sitting in the shallower cabin bilge, which obviously could not pump out the keel bilge. Does any one else have a different arrangement? Btw, there were 2 very heavy 18" long lead bars stored in the cabin bilge, which had been there a long time, and the bilge water was crudy brown. Apparently the bars were extra, or trim ballast. I hope not to put them back in the boat.
I will not have this boat in the water until next year, as I have a lot of items on my list of repairs or upgrades. One of my highest priorities is both pump systems must be working properly, and the thru hull valves must be workable, and none of those worked either. All water and anything else loose allowed to slide under the cockpit floor from either side can end up in the deep rear bilge. I will be looking for a borescope to see what is down there.
So I am learning from all of you here about the 25, and do want to know if the rudder post is simply run in a glassed-in metal sleeve, and may be eroded, or split and leaking. I will add it to my list of things to do when I remove my bulkheads. It also looks like I might need to pull the rudder, so I believe I will learn more about that too, this coming winter.
But for sure the 2 pump outlet hoses will have raised vented loops and shall dump into the motor well where I can see the outflow. I will also be glassing over the opening between the motor compartment and the starboard locker where the previous owner kept their 6 gallon gas tank connected to the engine with the gas line thru that hole. And yes, any leakage (water or gas) could go into the rear bilge! Not a very good idea.
Any other suggestions are always welcome, and I can always add more to my retirement work list.
BobC

[Ed Haley]

I would look at your sink drain. If the drain isn't blocked (seacock) while sailing, any time you're on a starboard tack, the top of the drain is below sea level and water then pours into your sink. When it overflows, the water ends up in the bilge.

Even on the level, the water in the sink drainpipe is just below the bottom of the sink.

Just another thing to check.

Good luck.

[Astronomertoo]

Thanks Ed,
I have not had this 25 in the water yet but that is about the level I figured it would be. I would close that thru hull valve when sailing. My valves all need maintenance and all new hoses, and I do not like the kludge "Y" connection to the sink drain with the port side cockpit drain either. It will be fixed.
BobC

[tartansailor]

I had a similar problem. Turns out that a few acorns found their way into plugging my cockpit drains.
In retrospect, it rained, water filled the cockpit, and over flowed into the bilge. Rain stopped,
and next day the cockpit was dry. Solution: You need an air hose to back flush to clear the drains, and as a
temporary fix roll a 3M pad to block debris yet let water drain. Permanent fix, instal bronze grates.
dick