Wheel to Tiller Conversion: Rudder Stops?

[CD30C]

Friends,
I just removed my worm gear wheel mechanism, and installed a tiller. I did this because I am used to a tiller, found the 37 year old wheel steering to be sloppy (60 degree backlash), and because I am considering installing a windvane. At this point, I haven't made any changes that would prevent me from converting back, but I have a question: I wonder if I have any rudder stops. I believe the wheel mechanism limited the rudder travel. I am in the (cold) water now, so I can't easily take a look down below, but I suspect that my rudder stop is actually fiberglass against fiberglass (rudder against hull). Any thoughts about this? I would especially like to hear from owners of boats that were manufactured with tillers.

Thanks, Doug

[tjr818]

On our 27 the actual stops are tiller against coaming. There are no stops built in.

[godspeed]

i have a 27 with a wheel, much like you describe on your 30. anxious to see how you make out, because i was considering removing the wheel and reverting to the tiller, mostly for space in the cockpit. the wheel takes up a lot of room. keep us posted. tim was correct on the 'no stops' aspect, at least with respect to the 27.

[tjr818]

i have a 27 with a wheel, much like you describe on your 30. anxious to see how you make out, because i was considering removing the wheel and reverting to the tiller, mostly for space in the cockpit. the wheel takes up a lot of room. . . .

Interesting. I have often thought about converting to a wheel, because the tiller sweep takes up so much room. I keep thinking that there should be some way to install a small wheel on the aft bulkhead with a quadrant mounted on the rudder shaft facing aft. Bring the wheel out about 16" or so from the aft bulkhead and I could sit in the back corner with the whelk right at hand.

[Jim Walsh]

i have a 27 with a wheel, much like you describe on your 30. anxious to see how you make out, because i was considering removing the wheel and reverting to the tiller, mostly for space in the cockpit. the wheel takes up a lot of room. . . .

Interesting. I have often thought about converting to a wheel, because the tiller sweep takes up so much room. I keep thinking that there should be some way to install a small wheel on the aft bulkhead with a quadrant mounted on the rudder shaft facing aft. Bring the wheel out about 16" or so from the aft bulkhead and I could sit in the back corner with the whelk right at hand.

Thought this might interest you. Edson has details on the conversion for a CD30 http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/whee ... /S-770.pdf

[John Stone]

Hi Doug,
Good for you. I converted the Far Reach to a tiller several years ago. I would not have it any other way.

I too thought about rudder stops for a long time. Because I have a Cape Horn windvane and ran the controls lines under the cockpit sole to the ex steering quadrant I was a little limited as to what I could do. In a perfect world, I would have drilled holes in the outboard ends of the quadrant (where it is widest and provides the most leverage), install eyebolts, and run line/chain/dyneema from the eyebolts to through-bolted padeyes in the fore and aft bulkheads that support the bottom of the cockpit sole. I would limit travel to about 40 degrees max on each side of the centerline. I could not do that on my boat so I glassed/through-bolted a pad eye to the underside of the cockpit sole just forward of the forward edge of the quadrant. I installed a single eyebolt on the forward edge of the quadrant and ran a control line from the quadrant to the pad-eye.

I think rudder stops are important, especially if you plan to sail offshore. I have heard of tillers getting snapped off when they hit the coaming when the boat is driving back by wave action. It does not require being hove-to to fined yourself in that situation. You can just as easily be driven back by missing a tack in big wind and waves.

Here is a link to the wheel to tiller conversion that we competed. Scroll to the bottom of the page for photos and a description of the rudder stop. Obviously, there are a number of ways to accomplish the desired endstate.

Good luck.

[tjr818]

I do like a tiller, but on our 27 it takes up most of the cockpit Here is a crude sketch of what I envision. Too bad I don't know how to bring it into being.

Scan.jpeg

[CD30C]

Tim,
The tiller hardware I installed has a hinge that lets me raise the tiller vertically and out of the way when not in use. For this reason it won't be reliably stopped by the coaming. Please confirm that your tiller is fixed. I haven't actually gone sailing, but I think I will like sitting more forward. I am much closer to the instruments mounted on the cabin, and will be able to get under the dodger in bad weather and still have my hand on the tiller.

Jim,
Thanks for the link and info.

John,
I had the earlier type of steering with no cables and no quadrants. I don't see your link.


When I am done with this project, I may have the worm gear mechanism for sale.

I will take some pictures this weekend. I believe the rudder shaft is quite a bit longer on worm gear steering boats than in those that came with tillers.

Doug

"Keep your hand upon the throttle, and your eye upon the rail."

[Jim Walsh]

For those considering a pedestal to tiller conversion this is a nice link to a changeover done on a CD31.
http://svsuppose.blogspot.com

[Jim Walsh]

I do like a tiller, but on our 27 it takes up most of the cockpit Here is a crude sketch of what I envision. Too bad I don't know how to bring it into being.

Take a look at the Traditional Steering Systems catalog from Edson. They have both forward and aft mounted rack and pinion systems available for inboard rudders. Here's a hyperlink to their page.

http://www.edsonmarine.com/ecatalogs/T1/s00004.htm

[Maine_Buzzard]

Guppy is one of a dozen 30s built with a tiller, according to a conversation with Dave Perry.

I tend to stand and steer with a leg in light winds, and use a hiking stick when the wind builds. When the weather helm moves up a few inches, it's time to drop the traveler or think about reefing.

Long times at the helm call for a tiller extension, to keep from having to constantly sit sideways and turn my head for hours at a time. I also use the "Egg", a wood block that wedges on the coaming and has a tapered slot to hold the ball end of the hiking stick. I usually can go five minutes without trimming on a beam reach.

The tiller is hinged, and easy to drive while motoring, with the stick nearly vertical. Speeds greater than 2000 rpm tend to pump water up the ruddershaft and into the cockpit sometimes.

Yes, your stock will be very long compared to a tiller. Mine ends barely 4" above deck.

The hull stops the rudder at about 45 degrees. (just hiked through the side yard snowdrift to check) It does make a good brake as the mooring looms.

No worries about deleting the worm gear, go for it!

This was a lumpadump day outside of Port Clyde. Reefed and Yankee.

[godspeed]

godspeed cockpit showing wheel.jpg

my cd 27 came with a wheel. advantages are that it can be 'locked down' or tensioned. a great help when sailing alone. the disadvantages are the amount of room it takes up in the cockpit and the limitation it places in accessing the engine controls, which are low in the cockpit on the port side.
also not much room for stowing the main sheet. thanks for the link to the edson pedistal. wonder if it would work on a 27?
steve tompkins
godspeed
cd 27
cape may

[John Stone]

Doug
Sorry. Here is the link for wheel to tiller conversion. Scroll to the bottom for info on the rudder stop.



http://www.farreachvoyages.com/projects ... ersion.htm

[tjr818]

Steve that wheel setup is close to what I had envisioned. If you ever have that console (?) opened please post some pictures. What is the distance between the aft bulkhead and the wheel?
I do like the tiller, especially when single handing, but when two or three are out for a day sail the cockpit gets awfully crowded.

[Neil Gordon]

I do like the tiller, especially when single handing, but when two or three are out for a day sail the cockpit gets awfully crowded.

Two of us is never a problem but the cockpit does get crowed if there are four. For me, it's not the tiller, it's being able to work the boat through a tack or jibe, i.e., having access to the sheets and winches. Mostly it's a matter of passenger management... if I can get the passive passengers forward in the cockpit, one on each side, that leaves two of us room to work and to switch sides based on the preference of the skipper.