Update on Your Lehr Outboard Experience?

[Lex Loci]

All:

I am in the market for an outboard motor for my Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender. Reliability and weight are two key factors in making my decision. I am concerned about going with a traditional gas powered outboard given all that I have read about the issues associated with E85 gasoline in a marine environment. Consequently, I have been looking into the Lehr 5HP long shaft motor as a possible alternative. In terms of weight, it is 10% less than the average of a group of 10 comparable gas motors. However, it sells at a 28% premium ($382) over the same group. I think I can justify paying this price premium if I assume that the Lehr will allow me to avoid up to three service calls for carburetor cleaning in a five year period at an average of $125 a throw. I have read about some of Lehr's quality issues (e.g., flimsy fittings, gas leaks) which are a concern given its relatively short production run. However, I have also read that they have been pretty good in terms of warranty claims. Therefore, I am inclined to consider these a wash.

I'd very much appreciate any perspective from members that currently own (or have owned) Lehr marine products concerning the reliability/cost tradeoff that I am trying to evaluate in making my buying decision.

Thanks in advance for any insight you can share!

[tjr818]

All:
...I have read about some of Lehr's quality issues (e.g., flimsy fittings, gas leaks) which are a concern given its relatively short production run. However, I have also read that they have been pretty good in terms of warranty claims. Therefore, I am inclined to consider these a wash....

I no nothing about the Lehr, however I have owned products that, even though they had wonderful warrantees, still broke down too often (a certain Ford Pinto comes to mind).
A good warranty will not get you home when the product fails.

[Jeff D]

Like many Typhoon owners I have a Honda 2 hp. I think it is the right mix of power and weight. It has never failed to start over the eight years that I have owned it.

[Ron M.]

I have seen a few lehr's around dingy docks but know little to share. I tend to stay with products with a track record.
That said I was in the market for a new outboard for the dink last summer and narrowed it to a honda or suzuki 2 hp.
The honda's were backordered so I went with the suzuki, it being less $ and available - with good reviews. I haven't regretted it-
nice little motor.
with any outboard methanol is a concern. Follow mfg's recommendations, use an additive and fresh fuel. Don't buy more gas than you will use in a month.

[Joe Myerson]

Lehrs have suddenly become very popular at our dinghy dock, and those who have them profess to love them. I don't know how long they've had them. I still use those quaint objects known as "oars" myself. I don't know if a Ty is too heavy for a Torqeedo rechargeable outboard, but they seem to be the dinghy outboard of the future. The cost is kinda outrageous, though.
--Joe

[Russell]

Every cruiser I know who has bought one has regretted it. But mostly due to issues of difficulty finding fuel (Pure propane being hard to find in many countries, butane/propane blends being more common and Lehrs dont like butuane) and issues with having run the engines on butane blends.

I think the engines are Tohatus, which (as far as the actual engine goes, not nessisarily the external bits that Lehr makes themselves) have a good reputation as good motors.

[Jim Walsh]

Lehr engines are manufactured in China, as stated in the attached article.
http://www.jsonline.com/business/lehr-i ... tml?ipad=y

[Lex Loci]

Thanks to all of you for your replies. Very helpful!

Concerning the comment about manufacture in China, it reminded me of when I was young and the phrase "made in Japan" was associated with cheap and shoddily made products. This got me to wondering about whether there are any actual manufacturers (as opposed to assembly operations) in the U.S. of outboard motors of this size. I first checked with Mercury and learned “Mercury Marine manufactures 40, 50 and 60 horsepower four-stroke outboard engines in a facility in China, and produces smaller outboard engines in Japan pursuant to a joint venture with its partner, Tohatsu Corporation. Mercury Marine sources certain engine components from a global supply base of Asian, European and Latin American suppliers and manufactures additional engine component parts at its Fond du Lac facility and plants in Florida and Mexico.” I then checked with BRP (Evinrude and Johnson) which is a Canadian company doing business in the U.S. From this, I learned that: "BRP has consolidated machining and final assembly of outboard engines at facilities in Sturtevant, Wisconsin, Juarez, Mexico and Dongguan, China….BRP has entered into an agreement with a Japanese manufacturer which supplies 4-stroke engines, that are sold under the Johnson brand name. With respect to the manufacture of outboard engines, the Company believes that further cost synergies may be achieved by continued optimisation of the manufacturing footprint and supplier network." It seems that outboard motor production is truly a globalized industry and that where a product is made is no longer a reliable indicator of its quality - witness the long lines of folks waiting to buy the latest Chinese manufactured iPhone!

The next question raised relates to reported problems arising from the use of propane mixed with butane. I wasn't aware of this issue, so I did some further checking. I contacted Coleman customer service and confirmed that the 16.4 oz disposable propane canisters (#5103B164T) contain 100% propane. I also contacted Rhino Propane, a major consumer distributor in my area, and confirmed with them that their product is 100% propane. So, if people are having reliability problems with the Lehr outboards, I think it may be due to other causes (or use of improper fuel).

Concerning the Torqeedo, it certainly wins in the weight/portability category. However, the initial cost ($2000 at West Marine) plus the cost of replacement batteries ($600) really put me off. Finally, on the reliability front, I've read a good deal about error messages and the like. My concern is that they haven't yet worked out how to properly isolate the electronics in a marine environment and that this will be a continuing source of (costly) reliability issues.

All that said, I still very interested in hearing from an actual Lehr owners about their first hand experiences with the product.

[Russell]

I think you misunderstood me reguarding propane/butane blends. I was refering to full time cruisers who sail all over the world, thats why I said "many countries", I was not meaning to suggest this was a problem in the US, but it is one outside the US.

[Squid]

I have been watching the progress of the LEHR engines as well. I intend on getting one for a small dink (8.5ft). And yes, I know what oars are for. If you google a bit there were issues in the first few years with the 2.5 and 5 HP models mostly issues with the holders for the small canisters and flimsy housing issues. I talked with the manufacturer at the last Anna boat show and he said those issues were addressed and resolved on all the current models. I have attempted to verify this by asking each person I see that has a current model and they seemed to have resolved their early manufacturing issues, about four positive remarks from current owners. I intend on buying a 2.5 hp model to "supplement" the current oars when current in places on the ICW will or could make rowing a bit more problematic. I also looked at the electrics but my impression from feedback was they, as yet, are very flimsy in there manufacturing and fall apart pretty quick... A tad tooooo expensive for them to fall apart after a couple of years, my thoughts anyway.

[Jim Davis]

Just a few random thoughts and yes I did consider the Lehr.

First Re: Russell's remark In warmer climates and southern Europe Butane and Butane/Propane mix are more common. However this applies to refillable tanks not the "throwaway" 16.4 bottles. When outside the US the 16.4 throwaways aren't as common as here.

As to cost A 16.4 bottle holds one quart, it takes four of them for a gallon, so I'm not sure of the cost effectiveness.

Then there is stowage. Like Gasoline you aren't supposed to stow it inside the hull unless it is in a vented overboard locker sealed from the inside of the boat.

To make these more cost effective one could use either a 10 (2.5 gal)or 20 (5 gal) pound external tank. Based on my own experience a 10 pound tank is the biggest I want on the boat. Carrying one is bad enough when it is time to refill, I don't intend to hump a 20.

Gasoline I can get at almost any marina, propane seems to always be "at the store down the road".

[Jim Evans]

While I have no personal experience with these Lehr outboards, the reviews on WM's website provide some good insight. Take a look at http://www.westmarine.com/buy/lehr--2-5 ... --13498993

[Squid]

Of note..... if you search the net... You will find that you can refill, until the O-Ring busts, the small disposable canisters from a larger tank. Also of note, the decision would depend a great deal on the intended use of the engine. If you aren't taking your CD to Europe I wouldn't necessarily factor that data into the decision. For myself, it would be easier to store (in the current propane locker) several small canisters than a five gallons jug of gas... But, all this info would only be relevant contingent upon the intended use.

[Lex Loci]

Thanks again for all the great input!

Concerning the propane, weight and size are significant concerns. If I go this route, I plan to use the 1# bottles for emergency reserve and use either a Manchester 5# (steel) or a Worthington 6# (aluminum) tank as the main fuel source. Lehr markets fiberglass tanks manufactured by Viking, but these are expensive, larger than I think I need, and seem to have had some quality issues in the past. Although significantly more expensive than steel (3X), I am leaning toward the aluminum because of the combination of weight, reliability, and longevity (i.e., non-rusting).

Still hoping to entice an actual Lehr owner into this "weighty" conversation!