Thoughts after a CD33 sea trial

[amit]

Hello Everyone,

This is my first post here.

I am under contract for buying a CD33. I had ideal conditions for sea trial. I have some observations which I wanted to shared with the experienced folks here and get their opinion.

Conditions:
Wind was 15kts, gusts at 17-20kts
Wind swell 15secs 3-4 ft, 9-10 sec 5-6 ft

Sail Plan
Full main, and genoa reduced to 50%, traveller centered.

Observation:

1) We did 6.5Kts on close hauled course. We were heeling on an average 30 degrees. Weather helm was very strong, but. I think it was because we did not reef the main. Overall under these conditions had we reduced the mainsail the helm would have been in good balance. Am I correct ? Also have people used autopilot on CD33? Are there any problems?

2) I was occasionally over steering the boat. I think this is about getting used to. ( My sailing experience is on Cal34/Newport 27). Am I correct?

3) Even inside the channel in the marina, after we rolled (closed) the genoa, there was some helm towards the side the of the boom. Wind was almost dead behind us. Is this expected? Or could it be due to currents/surge.

4) In dead down wind with swell in aft-port quarter there was fair amount of roll. I think this is expected as well. Am I correct?

5) We set the rail down once (starboard) during close haul. After the trial, there was some water / moisture hat got through the through deck fittings. This was near the chainplate area inside the locker on starboard side. I think this is not abnormal as well. Am I correct?

Hopefully the survey will go well in the a couple of days and then I would be actively seeking advice here.

Thanks in advance.

Amit

[Jim Evans]

Hi Amit,

I've had a CD33 for 9 years on Chesapeake Bay. Under the conditions you describe, I wouldn't be surprised by the weather helm. It would be particularly noticeable if the mainsail was older and had lost its shape. Letting the main luff a bit, or reefing it to both reduce its size and flatten the sail, would have helped considerably with balancing the helm.

I use an autopilot mostly for motoring, and when under sail on light wind days. I would not expect to use mine close hauled with 15 to 20 kts of wind.

When motoring, the prop walk with a right hand prop will have a tendency to pull the stern to starboard, resulting in the bow turning to port. Backing down in no wind conditions, you can expect the stern to pull to port.

The hull design of any Cape Dory, with it's relatively narrow wineglass shaped hull, will roll in any quartering sea. If it didn't roll, I'd be concerned about being aground!

And yes, you certainly don't want deck leaks around the chainplates. You'll want to pay particularly close attention to the condition of the chainplate mounts below the decks, with a good light and mirror.

Lastly, you might check to see if the fuel tank is original. If it is, I suggest you plan to replace it soon, as a fuel leak never happens at a good time! The design of the CD33 fuel tank allows all the sediment/water to settle in the forward low point of the tank, and that is most likely where the leak will start, as the tank corrodes from the inside out.

Overall, the CD33 is a great boat. Good luck with your purchase.

[amit]

Thanks Jim for your reply. Your comments were reassuring.

Also wanted to add.

With regards to auto-pilot it what I wanted to ask was opinion about putting auto pilot on CD33 in general. (Jim was spot on)

Also, for those wondering where this was. It was on the west coast.

--Amit

[Neil Gordon]

Good luck with the purchase!

As others have said, except for the bit of water intrusion, the boat seems to be behaving as designed. Most of us would have reefed the main first and then the genoa... that will take care of much of the weather helm.

An auto pilot is great to have if you're alone or with limited crew and/or you're motoring relatively long distances. Sailing in other than light winds, it's likely to be overwhelmed.

[tartansailor]

Make absolutely certain that the cold rolled steel backing plates
under the standing rigging shows no sign what so ever of rust
or corrosion.
Also take a look at the hinge area under the cockpit
seat lids for water intrusion.
Look closely at the interface between the rudder and it's shaft for
any sign of impending attachment failure.
Please forgive my cynicism. Been there, had it happen to me.
Dick

[Zeida]

Check for blisters in the hull… probably they will not show up during the survey, since the boat needs to be out at least 3 - 4 days before you start seeing them. You will see them as weeping or wet tiny spots all over the hull. Check for cracks in the bottom of the rudder post and at the top, where water may have already gotten into the rudder… ALL The deck thru-hulls: chain plates and the small plates from where you can refill your water tanks… on mine they were not bolted properly nor sealed properly, consequently I got water seeping from some of them. Check for possible water stain marks. Check inside the small cabinet by the nav table, since the hose that goes from the deck plate into the stbd. water tank goes through there, and I had a leak right at the top of the deck plate, with rain and any other water flowing over that area going right into the cabinet…

Engine compartment: Is it clean? has it been maintained properly? check that the muffler platform is NOT mounted or attached to the tranny.. if it is, that the bolts holding it there are not stripped but rather attached solidly and the muffler & platform is not banging against your tranny. The overall condition of hoses, connections, clamps, etc. Motor Mounts: Corrosion? are they in good shape -not broken or badly damaged - and are the bolts holding them down in good shape?

Inside the salon lockers: Check carefully with a flashlight the condition of the hoses that take water from your water tanks to the head and galley… that they may not be broken or cracked at the point where they connect with the tanks… Inside Anchor locker: Check the level of corrosion of the steel plate up front at the bow.

Inside the galley cabinet and cockpit lockers: SEACOCKS: are they in good working order? Batteries: have they been kept clean and in good working order?
Anyway, these are only some of the things to watch for by yourself and with the surveyor. Normally they just concentrate on standing rigging and peripherals, deck worthiness, etc. But the nitty gritty, you need to look out for yourself. Good luck

Zeida

[oldragbaggers]

This is all great information as well as we go through the refit of our CD33. Thank you to everyone who posted all these excellent suggestions.

[Neil Gordon]

Anyway, these are only some of the things to watch for by yourself and with the surveyor. Normally they just concentrate on standing rigging and peripherals, deck worthiness, etc. But the nitty gritty, you need to look out for yourself. Good luck

Zeida

I don't know what surveyors normally concentrate on, but I do know that when Norm Leblanc surveyed LIQUIDITY he covered all the items you mentioned. His report included significant detail, divided between "must fix" insurance items (e.g., "small leak at fuel tank hose") to others that were less critical (e.g., batteries are of unknown age; change them and you'll know what you're dealing with). Hopefully most of what's reported is not sufficient reason not to buy the boat... but you end up with a really good project list.

[amit]

Thank you Neil, Zeida, Dick.

One quick question, do you know what is the location of the original fuel tank?

In this boat the tank is stbd side behind the engine and is aluminum, and sits higher up on the curve than the engine.

Regards
Amit

[Paul D.]

That is most likely the spot for the fuel tanks. Mine is located there and is aluminum and looks fine.

I agree with previous posts about reefing the main early. I usually reef at 15 knots or so and put two reefs even in at just over 20 knots sometimes but have an original main sail and even with a SailCare treatment it is pretty baggy. When I sew up a new one I may consider going roachless or just cutting it really flat. You won't lose much speed at all when you reef. Expect to put the rail down but not to heel over much further than that in big winds reaching. Even the wind has to work hard to lift up that 5,500 pounds of lead in the keel there. Expect to roll more in a dead run or quartering sea.

I have a 32 year old Benmar Cetec Course Setter 21 below decks autopilot in the lazarette that worked really well even in large seas till its head croaked. I have had it fixed by Benmar but have not yet re calibrated it. I have heard that the Raymarine wheel pilot works fine on the 33 but struggles some in the big stuff.

Check the forward stantions for causing deck leaks. Look up under the V berth shelving for moisture. They may be what is leading water into your chainplate area in the locker there. I agree with previous posts to check the mild steel weldments in that area and in the head locker for any corrosion. Rebedding all that stuff is on my long list. The boats are 30 years old man.

Our 33 has been an excellent boat for the 12 years we've looked after her. She's been in some 50 knot gales and plenty of dead calms. Let us know how you go with purchase and more initial sails.

[amit]

Hi Paul,

Thanks. Your comment helps a lot. Hopefully everything goes well with the survey.

Looking forward.

Amit