Re-powering a 25D

[David Morton]

Contemplating a repower for Wielewaal. Would be interested in anyone's experience regarding their own 25D. Particularly curious about Beta vs Yanmar for this boat, installation pitfalls or hints, prop choice, how many boat units involved.

David

[SV Tatyana]

David,

This past summer I thought long and hard about repowering my new to me 25D which came with a siezed 1GM. When I looked around it seemed a new beta would set me back around$8k for just the engine. For me it came down to how long was I planning to own the boat becasue like any boat investment you won't quite get the return when it comes time to sell. I was able to replace a lot of parts on the 1GM for a fairly reasonable price (compared to a new engine) plus no need to modify the boat to fit a newer engine. On the other hand if we had some extra boat $ I would have loved some more power and a quieter 2 cyl, and the admiral would love hot water Are you having trouble with your 1GM or just looking to upgrade ?

Tim lackey goes into good detail about repowering with a beta on a 25D so you can get an idea for the work involved and whether or not you will need to pay for installation..
http://www.lackeysailing.com/surprise/n ... 111610.htm

-Richard

[Sea Hunt Video]

I am also very interested in this subject. When I first took over care and custody of S/V Bali Ha'i I thought she had enough power - at least to get me out of the channel from the mooring field to Biscayne Bay. A few months ago I tried going out with a strong crosswind and could not get out. I was being pushed backwards and sideways. Admittedly, the prop was, inexplicably, a little fouled. Then in July I motored out the channel to the marina next door for haul out. The weather conditions were ideal except it was a flooding tide and somewhat of a head wind. I had personally cleaned the hull and prop two (2) days earlier. They were smooth as silk. Yet, I was barely able to make way. I am assuming a significant cause was the flooding tide. Perhaps I accidentally timed it for maximum flooding without realizing it. Whatever the cause, it was a little unnerving.

Last year I casually looked at the newer Yanmar's displayed at Strictly Sail Miami. I seem to recall the rep saying that there was a slightly more powerful (14/15 hp) Yanmar that would work on my Cape Dory 25D. I think (I am not sure) he said that I would not have to modify the engine mounts to accept the new Yanmar.

I am somewhat limited to Yanmar engines because I have found a knowledgeable, honest diesel mechanic who really knows his profession. It is more important to me to have a good mechanic than it is to worry about whether I have a Yanmar, Beta, Universal, Volvo Penta, Westerbeke or other.

Hopefully, this thread will expand over the next few weeks and there will be a spirited discussion and education. Thanks for starting it David. We "25Ders" need to unite and stick together.

[David Morton]

Richard, my 1GM is tired. Besides being underpowered (even Cape Dory abandoned the early 1GM for the bored out 1GM10 to add an additional 3 HP), she is smoking like a chimney and the transmission is doing funny stuff. If I keep the boat, I need a new engine. The Admiral likes the cozy 25D and we have cruised 3 separate 1 week trips this season. But I would like more deck room and access to a sink that doesn't require contortions! Not to mention additional displacement to add stability. But having said all that, I do love my 25D and have already doubled the initial cost of purchase with upgrades and improvements (not to mention uncountable gallons of sweat!). So while I shop around, I am also pursuing the idea of keeping her and making her bristol. A real conundrum!
I am familiar with the Lackey article you linked. In fact, I have spoken to Tim and am confident he would do a good job. He is a couple of days sail away from me, so I am also looking for expertise closer to home, Harpswell, ME.
I also ran into the Yanmar folks at the Maine Boatbuilders Show this year. I was told then that the twin cylinder 13.6 HP is 2" longer at the forward end than the 1GM and would require some placement modification of the mounts.

Robert, as I think about hull speed and horsepower and current, it seems that water speed past the hull is the key number. I imagine a larger engine will not improve your SOG much against current due to the limits of hull speed. But it would be helpful, it seems, against wind and seas. I also have had a couple of white knuckle moments on my 25D as I tried to buck 6ft seas and a 25kt headwind. 1-2 kts of SOG at full throttle!

So I will be making change, be it a new boat or a new engine. Hoping this thread will lead me in the right direction.

[Ken Cave]

Unfortunately, the Beta engine is sold to those that can install themselves, unless you can find
an honest marine shop that will do it for you.

I wrote to Beta about six months ago asking them to put on their list LaConner Marine, as the two so
called authorized shops were out of the area, and one had a really bad reputation.

Of course I never heard from them, so I had LaConner Marine install a new D1-F 20 hp three cylinder
Volvo to replace my 2020 Volvo-cost? The engine was $7000.00 as I had them use my old transmission.
This was a lot cheaper than a Beta!

Whatever you do, check your shop's reputation. If you get the wrong one, it will cost you dearly!!

Hope this helps
Ken Cave
CD 28

[Neil Gordon]

I competed a repower last Spring... MD7A to Beta 14 in my CD28. Installation was done by an independent marine mechanic I've used for years. Happy to share details.

[Dick Barthel]

I put a Beta 14 in my 25D some time back at the same time my dear departed friend Bill Chapple had one installed in his 27. They were side by side in the shop over the winter. My 1 GM had to come out for an unrelated reason and I decided it made sense to make the switch given the age of the engine and the fact that I wanted reliability. I sold the old engine for $1,000 because it was in pretty good shape. I would check the archives for our stories. I remember that the 25D needed less modification than did the 27. He need to design a water muffler and I've had no back up what so ever like happened with the original set up. The engines were both installed by a second generation diesel mechanic who attracts all kinds of beautiful boats to our yard for engine work work over the winter. I love my new engine and I know Bill loved his.

Dick

[Neil Gordon]

Short version is that we needed to raise the motor about 4". Also, it sits a bit further forward, so that required a new shaft. I installed a new cutlass bearing and dripless seal at the same time. To get the needed vertical drop from the engine to the muffler, I had an extension welded into the exhaust. The muffler sits on a shelf that was glassed in behind the motor and just above the shaft. New 3 bladed prop replaced the old 2 blade and I installed a new shifter. No new holes in the boat.

[frank3]

I had a Beta 14 installed last winter and have put 50 hours on it this year. I had it installed by a shop here that is a Beta dealer. I think my installation is superior to the Tim Lackey product because they modified the beds and moved the engine forward about 4 or 5 inches. Consequently there is plenty of room around the stuffing box. They were able to re-pitch the original prop which has worked out fine. There are very strong currents in the Piscataqua river here that the little 1Gm could barely cope with. The added power is really noticeable at low RPM's, I think it's because of the gearing. The fuel consumption is almost the same as the 1GM. The biggest difference is the smoothness and lack of noise vs the one lunger.
I looked at Nanni, Yanmar and Beta. The Beta was $1500 less than the Nanni and $4000 less than the Yanmar. Another real advantage to the Beta is the cross reference to Kubota parts, (an oil filter is $7) Compare that to Yanmar. Because of the smoothness, quietness, and much better control in reverse it feels like a totally different boat.
Send me a PM if you need further info.

[Neil Gordon]

>>The fuel consumption is almost the same as the 1GM.<<

I'm in the range of about a gallon every three hours. For the season, I've burned through about 10 gallons.

>>The biggest difference is the smoothness and lack of noise ...<<

Vs. the MD7A, there's less noise but the big difference is in the relative lack of vibration. Also, 400 lbs. came out; 200 lbs. went in (and that sits closer to the middle of the boat).

[Brian2]

Neil,

What prop diameter and pitch do you have? And what do you see in terms of speed and power? I had a Beta 14 installed on my CD28 and made a huge mistake when I also installed a Campbell Sailor prop. It was overpitched to start with so I could only get 2800 of 3600 rpms and smoke, then repitched so I got 3600, but only 3.6 knots in 10kts of headwind! Worst customer service ever, as I was told that was the best they could do. I sent it to an independent shop, and now I get 5.4 in calm seas, and 4.7 in wind and waves. I'm looking to go back to a Michigan Sailboat prop, as Beta recommends 13" x 7 50% blade area will get me close to hull speed.

Brian

[Brian2]

...and the thick, dull Campbell blades catch floating seaweed like crazy up here in Maine, and reversing only serves to tighten it up. I never had that problem with my old prop.

[Neil Gordon]

Neil,

What prop diameter and pitch do you have? And what do you see in terms of speed and power?

I have a three bladed 13/7, which moves the boat at hull speed at 3000 RPM. I seem to be getting full power in forward and reverse... no smoke or anything else out of the ordinary. I'll note that the shifter is hitting its limit at around 3000 RPM... it's on the list to see if can be further adjusted... there's currently a long throw before the throttle kicks in, in both forward and reverse.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Has anyone removed a Yanmar 1GM or 1GM10 from a Cape Dory 25D and repowered the Cape Dory 25D with another Yanmar

If so, when did you do the repower What model Yanmar did you install Did you have to change out the shaft Did you change the prop Did you have to make new motor mounts Overall, what has been your experience with the repowered Yanmar

My Yanmar 1GM is 32 years old. I am very fortunate that the two prior caretakers of S/V Bali Ha'i took exceptional care of the Yanmar. I have no complaints other than lack of power pushing against seas, winds, currents, tides, etc. In terms of access, for what limited things I am able to do on the Yanmar most everything is within reach.

[Northoceanbeach]

I have a beta 20 in a cape dory 28. Installed 11 months ago with new transmission an vari prop. It was insanely expensive. But over in my neck of the woods the dealer that installs them is incredibly good at it.

I recently saw a beta 14 that the owner installed with his friend and the difference was night and day.