Had a sailor relative (not a pro rigger) get my mast set up. Looks good but seemed like a lot of rake. I tried adjusting it, loosened up the backstay and tightened the forestay. Didn't seem to help much, tightening the forestay only increased the rake oddly enough (TyS, fractional rig). Tried loosening up the shrouds, that seemed to help but still couldn't reduce the rake as much as I wanted.
Is there a trick to this? Could the mast be bent?
This is my first boat, first season in fact. Seems like she wants to head up into the wind especially when the wind gets going good, so I'm guessing from my limited knowledge that getting more sail area forward will help with that.
Any suggestions welcome.
tuning the rigging and mast rake
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Megunticook
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Sep 2nd, '12, 17:59
- Location: Cape Dory Typhoon Senior #11
Re: tuning the rigging and mast rake
Just a guess. Is your topping lift loose while you trying this?
If it is tight it might prevent to plumb the mast
If it is tight it might prevent to plumb the mast
-
David van den Burgh
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 18:54
- Location: Ariel CD36, 1979 - Lake Michigan
- Contact:
Re: tuning the rigging and mast rake
Hopefully some Ty owners can chime in here, but it sounds to me like you're describing BEND rather than RAKE. Here's a little graphic to illustrate:
I have very little experience with the Ty, but the fractional rig means that tightening the headstay will encourage the mast to bend. I suspect that you'll always have some bend in the Ty mast, but it should be a fair curve from the masthead down, and you can shape/control it with the lower shrouds. You should also ensure that the mast is straight laterally. As you sight up the sail track/groove, you should see a straight line all the way to the top of the mast. This is especially important while sailing. Sight up the mast along the aft edge on each tack (port and starboard) to make sure that the head of the mast is not leaning one way or the other. If the masthead is leaning one way or the other, then you need to adjust the shrouds incrementally until the masthead remains in column with the rest of the mast.
Anyway, I hope that helps. I'm sure someone with a Ty will give you more helpful advice.
I have very little experience with the Ty, but the fractional rig means that tightening the headstay will encourage the mast to bend. I suspect that you'll always have some bend in the Ty mast, but it should be a fair curve from the masthead down, and you can shape/control it with the lower shrouds. You should also ensure that the mast is straight laterally. As you sight up the sail track/groove, you should see a straight line all the way to the top of the mast. This is especially important while sailing. Sight up the mast along the aft edge on each tack (port and starboard) to make sure that the head of the mast is not leaning one way or the other. If the masthead is leaning one way or the other, then you need to adjust the shrouds incrementally until the masthead remains in column with the rest of the mast.
Anyway, I hope that helps. I'm sure someone with a Ty will give you more helpful advice.
Re: tuning the rigging and mast rake
Hi Megunticook,
What type of mast base do you have? My TyS has a two plate hinging type. I only pin the aft pin holes, but with the forward pins holes aligned (two plates closed) there is quite a bit of mast rake. There is another TyS in my marina, #53, and it has the original mast base. We have always intended to compare our masts, but have not done so yet.
David's drawing, and comments about mast bend concerning a fractional rig are good.
One more factor may be, is the boat squatting, low in the aft end? Does this affect the perception of vertical on the mast?
Like you, I have been unable to adjust out the rake. So I decided to live with it. I cannot emphasize enough, that TyS has a VERY LARGE mainsail. I think your P dimension may be 3' greater than CD22. You don't get a longer P until you go to CD27. I think of the jib as the driving sail, and the main as the balancing sail. Any time you feel a lack of balance, reduce the main. Full main is a light air arrangement, in my opinion.
Happy Sailing!
Dave
What type of mast base do you have? My TyS has a two plate hinging type. I only pin the aft pin holes, but with the forward pins holes aligned (two plates closed) there is quite a bit of mast rake. There is another TyS in my marina, #53, and it has the original mast base. We have always intended to compare our masts, but have not done so yet.
David's drawing, and comments about mast bend concerning a fractional rig are good.
One more factor may be, is the boat squatting, low in the aft end? Does this affect the perception of vertical on the mast?
Like you, I have been unable to adjust out the rake. So I decided to live with it. I cannot emphasize enough, that TyS has a VERY LARGE mainsail. I think your P dimension may be 3' greater than CD22. You don't get a longer P until you go to CD27. I think of the jib as the driving sail, and the main as the balancing sail. Any time you feel a lack of balance, reduce the main. Full main is a light air arrangement, in my opinion.
Happy Sailing!
Dave
-
tartansailor
- Posts: 1527
- Joined: Aug 30th, '05, 13:55
- Location: CD25, Renaissance, Milton, DE
Re: tuning the rigging and mast rake
I really, really dislike saying this, but is it possible that your fore-stay and back-stay are reversed?
Viam Inveniam Aut Faciam
-
Megunticook
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Sep 2nd, '12, 17:59
- Location: Cape Dory Typhoon Senior #11
Re: tuning the rigging and mast rake
Thanks for the input. Yes, I guess I'm talking about 'bend' judging by those pictures.
It sounds like an easy bend is desirable, but nothing too radical. I should probably pay a professional rigger to have a look and teach me some things.
Based on some slight adjustments I made, I seem to have reduced the bend slightly. I must say it's not a very heavy "weather helm" feeling on the tiller, although in stiff breeze or better she does want to round up. Based on what I understand (still acquiring the experience) some weather helm is a good thing, as long as your rudder's not braking you too much. Just a slight pressure on the tiller.
My mast base is just a 2-pin aluminum arrangement, sounds like yours (how come you only put one pin in?).
Good point about the topping lift. It was holding the weight of the mast at the time.
I'll see if I can find someone in the area. Any recommendations for the Camden/Rockport/Rockland area?
It sounds like an easy bend is desirable, but nothing too radical. I should probably pay a professional rigger to have a look and teach me some things.
Based on some slight adjustments I made, I seem to have reduced the bend slightly. I must say it's not a very heavy "weather helm" feeling on the tiller, although in stiff breeze or better she does want to round up. Based on what I understand (still acquiring the experience) some weather helm is a good thing, as long as your rudder's not braking you too much. Just a slight pressure on the tiller.
My mast base is just a 2-pin aluminum arrangement, sounds like yours (how come you only put one pin in?).
Good point about the topping lift. It was holding the weight of the mast at the time.
I'll see if I can find someone in the area. Any recommendations for the Camden/Rockport/Rockland area?
Re: tuning the rigging and mast rake
Try Loric Weymouth, He lives in Rockland. Phone 975-1405; Check out his web site. He's a professional and a nice guy.
Re: tuning the rigging and mast rake
Hi Megunticook,
When I purchased "Puffin" the previous owner had his finger in my chest, when he said, "You can pin the foreward hole, or you can pin the aft hole, but, WHATEVER you do, don't pin both holes!" I think his concern was that in the event of loosening or failure of the fore or back stays, if both holes were pinned, it would cause flexing of the cabintop.
You know, rig tuning shouldn't be too complicated. I use a bucket of water on a halyard to plumb the mast from side to side. Clip the bucket to your jib halyard, put it over one side, and put a tape mark where the halyard touches the rail. Bring the bucket to the other side and see if the tape mark is high or low. Adjust uppers until the tape mark is the same on both sides. Our owners manual says get good finger pressure on uppers and fore and aft stays. If you have a hinging two plate mast base, I think all you can do is adjust fore and back stays until the two plates are "closed". I adjust the lowers so that the mast is in column, while sailing. With someone else at the helm, sail a close reach, and lie on the foredeck sighting up the mast. Adjust the lowers, so the mast is in column while sailing. I find that after doing that, with the sails down, and I'm back in my slip, when I stand at the mast facing aft, chest high the lowers will turn about a 4" circle.
Dave
When I purchased "Puffin" the previous owner had his finger in my chest, when he said, "You can pin the foreward hole, or you can pin the aft hole, but, WHATEVER you do, don't pin both holes!" I think his concern was that in the event of loosening or failure of the fore or back stays, if both holes were pinned, it would cause flexing of the cabintop.
You know, rig tuning shouldn't be too complicated. I use a bucket of water on a halyard to plumb the mast from side to side. Clip the bucket to your jib halyard, put it over one side, and put a tape mark where the halyard touches the rail. Bring the bucket to the other side and see if the tape mark is high or low. Adjust uppers until the tape mark is the same on both sides. Our owners manual says get good finger pressure on uppers and fore and aft stays. If you have a hinging two plate mast base, I think all you can do is adjust fore and back stays until the two plates are "closed". I adjust the lowers so that the mast is in column, while sailing. With someone else at the helm, sail a close reach, and lie on the foredeck sighting up the mast. Adjust the lowers, so the mast is in column while sailing. I find that after doing that, with the sails down, and I'm back in my slip, when I stand at the mast facing aft, chest high the lowers will turn about a 4" circle.
Dave