Extending anchor chain

[bamabratsche]

My current "anchoring setup" (if you can call it that on a Typhoon) consists of a Danforth-style anchor (not sure what size since it came with the boat) with 19 feet of chain (I believe 5/16") and 150 feet of 3-strand nylon rode. Since I have begun doing multi-day trips around the middle Chesapeake I have started to pay more attention to this than I did when anchoring only happened for a couple of hours for dinner or beers after a day sail, although I've used this setup without any issues at all so far. I generally try to err on the side of caution and let out as much rode as possible, and since I'm usually way up a creek somewhere where larger boats can't get to this is usually not an issue.

So here's my question: the upper foot or so of the chain seems pretty rusty--not about to fall apart but still a lot of rust--and I am wondering if there is any reason not to just cut off the rusty links, buy a foot or two of new chain, and use an anchor shackle to join it to the existing chain? I can see how this would be an issue if using an anchor locker and bow roller, but my setup lives in a milk crate and I don't have to worry about anything getting snagged up in deck hardware.

I'm also thinking about increasing the overall length of the chain and think this would be a good way to do it without breaking the bank, the theory being that more chain equals more weight and catenary effect. The total amount is somewhat limited though since the entire length plus the anchor has to be manually lifted out of the cabin and carried up to the foredeck every time I anchor somewhere. I'm thinking 30-40 feet of chain total with nylon rode should be a good compromise, but would be interested to hear what others are using.

[Klem]

With anchoring, your end goal is to stay in the same place in a given set of weather and bottom conditions. It is up to you to define what those conditions are but since you are on the Chesapeake, I would suggest that you size for thunderstorms (say 50 knots or ~750lbs) with a softer bottom. You end up with a system of gear that allows you to do this. Because your question is about the rode, it really plays 2 roles in all of this, first to provide a secure connection between the anchor and your bow and second, to provide some shock absorption.

There is no question that the security of all chain is greater than the security of all line. Since you have a relatively small boat, it isn't practical to go with all chain so you will be stuck with a mixed rode. This means that with a properly sized rode, you have 2 likely failure points, chafe on the bottom and chafe at your bow. In the Chesapeake, chafe on the bottom is not too bad and adding some chain isn't really going to help unless you have enough chain so that the line never touches the bottom but I don't think that is practical in your case. If you were going to a place with coral heads, you would need to seriously think about how to handle the bottom. The other area is chafe at your bow and that would require an even more impractical amount of chain. Instead, I would recommend using a snubber in wilder conditions so that it chafes through first and you are still connected by your primary rode with time to add another snubber.

For shock absorption, lightweight chain is good in light weather and terrible in heavy weather. 5/16" is fairly heavy for your boat but even so, I would be willing to be that it has virtually no catenary by the time you start to really test the holding power of your anchor. However, the line that you have in the system is an excellent shock absorber if it is nylon. For the sake of shock absorption, adding chain is not going to help when you really need it. It is worth noting that people anchoring on chain actually add a nylon snubber that essentially creates a mixed rode because of this issue.

There are good reasons to have chain, the question is how much is best in your application. If you completely eliminate your chain, you will likely find your anchor harder to set especially on shorter scope. Also, more chain will keep your swing radius down in light airs which can be helpful in a crowded mooring field. On larger boats, I like all chain with a good snubber but because your boat is weight sensitive, I would recommend a mixed rode with only as long a piece of chain as you need. If it were me, I would cut off the few feet of rusty chain and simply use the rest unless it is less than 10'.

[Jim Walsh]

You have three options. 1) cut off the rusty section and make do with a slightly shorter chain.
2) buy new chain of the length you desire and retire your old chain.
3) cut off the rusty section and buy some additional chain so you'll have the length you now desire. You attach the two sections of chain with a "chain link". Photo attached.
You could always clean the rusty section and spray it with cold galvanizing compound (paint).

[Steve Laume]

The connections in your anchor rode are, literally, the weak link in the system. I do have a shackle at the anchor but have spliced the rode to the chain. Adding another shackle or a breakable link would not make up for the extra chain in my feeling of security.

I would cut the chain back to a sound section if it is really bad. Cold galvanize it if it is just surface rust or better yet swap the whole thing out for a new length of 1/4" chain. 5/6" is overkill for your boat. In mud bottoms, I don't see the need for great lengths of chain. If you really want the centenary effect of the heavier chain you could always add a weight. If it is blowing extremely hard the rode is going to be tight and all chain would not be an advantage.

To feel secure while sleeping or being gone from the boat during a wind shift, the anchor choice has a more significant effect than the amount of chain you might have on a mud bottom, Steve.

[bamabratsche]

Thanks guys. I had wondered about the chain size so it sounds like that may be something to look at. And Steve, I have thought about springing for one of the new-generation anchors like Rocna, and maybe that would be the most significant change I could make. I have never been anchored during a Chesapeake thunderstorm, but there were some in the area this weekend and I found myself thinking hard about what the Danforth would do if the wind swung around 180 degrees at 40-50 mph (according to NOAA radio) during one. Actually I was mostly thinking about all the lightning I could see in the distance, but the anchor did cross my mind as well.

Out of curiosity, what is the rationale for chain being less important for mud bottoms? Better holding in general, less chafe on rocks, etc?

[M. R. Bober]

Know a cruiser who isn't ready to give anchoring advice? Neither do I.

I sailed a CD27, mostly in the middle Chesapeake (Solomons to Worton Creek) for 18 years. During that period, I used a Danforth 20H (High Tensile) as my primary anchor (I did have and use a lunch hook.) During that entire period, I never experienced a dragging situation. I had been the anchor boat for a large raft during a night w/20-25 knot winds. On another cruise I had to anchor quickly in the face of a line squall with no time to prepare. Never dragged. Of course, I always used plenty of scope if there was room to swing , and I set the hook. I like 10:1 in shallow water with light ground tackle if a blow is expected.

I don't know where you will be and what conditions you expect to face, but I think that you will rarely anchor in water depth exceeding 10 feet. The 150' rode that you carry should be more than adequate in those depths. By all means use chain, a boat length or two should be adequate. It will increase the holding power of your anchor. If you expect to be anchored in storm conditions, USE CHAFF PROTECTION ON THE RODE WHERE IT PASSES THROUGH THE CHOCKS. The Typhoon does not--IMHO-- present much load to the anchor. She has a slippery hull and low windage (assuming you have secured your sails) so you shouldn't need a heavy anchor and chain (again IMHO).

It is important to properly set the anchor. Use reasonable power in reverse to engage the flukes. Be certain that the anchor is set by checking your position with either GPS or bearings to landmarks.

Just for the record, when we purchased RESPITE (CD330) she had a 25# CQR. She dragged on the Rhode River near Big Island. A 35# CQR resolved that problem. I now used a 44# Rocna on STARVIEW (CD36) I set the anchor, check position a few time and sleep soundly.

Let us know what you elect to do and give a post to report your results.

Mitchell Bober
Sunny Lancaster, (Which isn't very sunny tonight.) VA

[Steve Laume]

I only went to 90' of chain after I got my rode caught under an abandon mooring anchor. I had one hell of a time lifting the thing up to the point that i could tell what was going on. This was by hand and that thing was really heavy. It chafed my nylon rode a good bit and that scared me. Raven also squats in the stern so the extra weight in the bow was welcome.

I also anchor in areas where there are lots of rocks near by. for rocks and coral, you want a good bit of chain. If you are anchoring in areas where the bottom is predominately mud or sand, a boat length of chain should be plenty.

Raven has a 35lb CQR which is larger than recommended for her size and weight but I sleep well. If I was going out to buy a new anchor it would probably be one of the new generation. I do have a Danforth and a really big Fortress on board. The Danforth I would use as a kedge and the Fortress would act as a storm anchor or a spare.

This is always a hot topic but I don't think anyone would argue with a boat length of 1/4" chain for your boat in your situation, Steve.

[Klem]

Since you brought up the dangerous topic of anchors, here are my thoughts.

If I were going to write a specification for a new anchor design specifically for your boat, it would include these (and several other) attributes:
Easy setting in most bottoms
Reliable resetting in most bottoms
Stays buried in wind shifts
Holding power of 1000 lbs or greater 95%+ of the time in sand, mud and soft mud
As light as possible (ideally 15 lbs or less)
Compatible with whatever stowage you have
Strong enough that it doesn't bend or break in normal usage
Galvanizing that lasts at least 10 years
Cost <$250

It is up to each person to decide how important each attribute is. Since you have mentioned thunderstorms, the importance of setting, resetting and holding power should be quite high. Your current Danforth anchor will set well in some bottoms but certainly not all. Danforths are notoriously bad at resetting and when veering, they almost always pull out and need to reset. Their major strength is really high holding power for their weight. To me, this means that they are great secondary anchors but not great primary ones. If you decide to continue to use yours, you may well have no problems but your security during violent thunderstorms would be less than optimal in my opinion.

The new generation anchors provide a set of attributes which many people find to be superior for their use. Since you mentioned the Rocna, it, the Manson Supreme and the Mantus as well as a few others are fairly similar. They set incredibly easily in almost all bottoms and stay set when veering. Bottoms that give them trouble seem to either be bottoms like clay that can load up on the roll bar and really soft mud where they don't have the surface area of a Danforth and have a rollbar which keeps them from diving as deep. Anchors like the Spade, Ultra and Manson Boss don't use a rollbar and don't suffer from the issues of loading up with material and not diving deep.

If I were in the market for an anchor right now, I would probably buy the Mantus. Most importantly, the user reports have been excellent. Watching one be pulled through the sand, it is clear that the shape of the roll bar lets material pass through it much more easily than the Rocna or Supreme and I feel that this would eliminate many of the problems with having a roll bar. Maine Sail has done some nice tests of the different anchors and discussed his findings on various forums.

We have several hundred nights on our Rocna which I feel was the best option available for us when we bought it.

[Skeep]

This was a delightful thread on anchoring and brought some sweat to my brow as I relived a few exciting moments aboard my 47' Beneteau years ago and learned the hard way on scope and setting the damn anchor. It also caused me to read further. And this article by a Kiwi impressed me:

http://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/catenary.php

I personally see my danforth aboard as safety gear. I do not intend to anchor my Typhoon unless we are very near the Club, and then, if that I will wade to shore and tie the boat to a large tree.

[Bob Ohler]

2 Good Rules to live by:

Never bring up politics or religion with family at Thanksgiving .

Never bring up anchoring or varnish with fellow sailors.

Bob Ohler
"The best ground tackle is the one that will allow you to sleep well at night."

[tjr818]

2 Good Rules to live by:
Never bring up politics or religion with family at Thanksgiving .

Never bring up anchoring or varnish with fellow sailors.
B

...unless, of course, they lock their props....

[Sea Hunt Video]

You could always clean the rusty section and spray it with cold galvanizing compound (paint).

Jim and all:

What do you recommend as a cleaning solvent for rusty chain I recently was given about 20' of chain in good condition. It does have some surface rust on 50% of the links but the links appear to be solid. I would like to clean off the rust and then spray with Rustoleum's cold galvanizing spray.

Thanks.

[Steve Laume]

Do you know anyone with a cement mixer?

If you do, you could toss in the chain, a few shovel fulls of sand and some water, turn it on and go get a beer. Once it is cleaned up to your satisfaction, pour it out and rinse it off, then be ready to use a mess of spray to cover everything as soon as it dries.

Leave all the extra beer with your friend, Steve.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Do you know anyone with a cement mixer?

Steve:

Given my Sicilian heritage I can understand why you might ask if I have friends with a cement mixer. Fortunately, we have evolved to less messy methods.

I am actually looking for a cleaning agent to either soak the chain in or to scrub the chain links. But thanks for the brief trip down memory lane.

[tjr818]

There are several things that I can think of that will remove surface rust. but I am not sure what they would do to galvanizing, although if it really hot-dipped galvanize I think you would be okay. As they say, test on an inconspicuous spot first. I have removed surface rust with Coka-Cola, vinegar, Naval Jelly, or Lemon Juice. Lemon Juice and zinc, might make a battery, I don't think I would use that one. I really like the cement mixer idea, it is just a giant version of a tumbler that jewelers use to clean silver chains.