Two tots, a sailboat, and a storm

[Gary H]

The article does not say much about the couple's preparations or provide much details on what went wrong. That doesn't seem to stop folks from having an opinion. I would want to hear the thoughts of the experienced ocean sailors on this board.

http://nyti.ms/1hVu6yd

[tjr818]

The only additional info I have is that he is a licensed Coast Guard Captain (I don't know which rating) and he and his family have been doing this for seven years. Maybe he just emptied his "good luck box"?

[Adamhagan]

I love this quote from the MD at Seattle Childrens: "but I don’t fault them for being out of instant touch with modern medicine,” she said. “It’s our job to be prepared and to have a backup plan. It sounds like they needed their backup plan and executed it.”

Disclosure: We are currently planning a year long trip with our two daughters, so I am biased regarding long trips with kids.

#1: I agree with many of the comments about taking such a young child on the trip, the first year of life is an often precarious time of sick visits and new illnesses.
#2: On my solo trips I never thought about my PLB, but the moment my kids are onboard I am a safety freak. They obviously had the necessary safety gear.

Hopefully they will share they ups and downs so we can all learn from the event.

[Dixon Hemphill]

I think it's stupid to take a baby on an ocean voyage. Regardless of how experienced the skipper is his having to be rescued cost us tax payers thousands and maybe a million or two! And think of the danger to the men who rescued the four of them!

This incident is being played over and over on national news and it appears that others agree with my thoughts.

[Russell]

I was well aware of, and kept tabs on, this happening as it unfolded from the first, far beyond what news media reported. The boat was insanely well equipped, better then most who undertake such trips. The captain did know what he was doing, the wife a bit less of the sailor. A kid got sick, it happens. Still, putting your kid in a car seat and driving to the grocery store or wherever once a week is still probably more dangerous to the child. Thousands and thousands of kids have crossed oceans in sailboats, I have met far more kids then I can count that were not only born on sailboats, but have circumnavigated with their parents. They are not only among the most mannered, well adjusted and cultured kids I have ever met, they tend to breeze into ivy league schools as well. So yeah, something went wrong this time, and the kid and family are safe as a result and a boat was lost. Got a pile of stories of kids dying at sea? Nope. Cause I can give you a pile of stories every single day of kids dying in car accidents, or crazy parents not vaccinating and all sorts of other things.

Nothing wrong with what they undertook, unless you are going to tell a parent to never drive with their kid until they are 10 too, as that is far more likely to get the kid killed. Remember, everyone is alive here, a beautiful hans cristian had to become target practice for the us navy so as to not become a navigation hazard, but that had nothing to do with a kid being aboard.

[Sea Hunt Video]

I was getting ready to post when I read Russell's post. I agree 110% with his entire post except the part about USN using their sailboat for target practice. Is that really what happened to a Hans Christian Wow

[Russell]

I was getting ready to post when I read Russell's post. I agree 110% with his entire post except the part about USN using their sailboat for target practice. Is that really what happened to a Hans Christian Wow

Well, they scuttled the boat, the hows of it are not yet public, but yet, they do sometimes do target practice in such situations, sometimes they will literally just drive the ship over the boat, its not just "cut through a hose on an open seacock" as us sailors might do to scuttle a boat, the US navy does not really want to sit around for hours watching to make sure it sinks, right? But hey, if a boat needs to be scuttled and the USN wants to take the opportunity for target practice? Have at it! At least those who bitch about taxpayer expense can rest assured that the operation probably cost less then typical target practice does .

There was a big effort by a number of people to put forth a "rescue" mission for the boat before it was scuttled, which I never understood myself, its a material object, the family is safe and thats what matters. There is even a fundraising effort going to raise money for the family, again, I don't really buy into that, if I am giving away money its to people living in a shack who can barely eat, not people who can afford a hans cristian (even if uninsured, which I am sure it was, someone who could buy it in the first place is better off then the guy in the shack).

[K Chiswell]

I think it's stupid to take a baby on an ocean voyage. Regardless of how experienced the skipper is his having to be rescued cost us tax payers thousands and maybe a million or two! And think of the danger to the men who rescued the four of them!

This incident is being played over and over on national news and it appears that others agree with my thoughts.

First off I'm glad that the family is OK. Cheers to the men, women and technology that made the rescue possible.

My $.02. Tax payers would pay the same to rescue any number or any age crew, it didn't cost the tax payers more because there were children on board. Statistically the most dangerous thing we can do as parents is put our children in a car and get on the highway. If something goes wrong it is simply viewed as bad luck, the driving and non driving communities don't question our judgement for going on a road trip.

As a father of two young boys who hopes to do some extended cruising with long passages in the near future I have read lots about families who have done this sort of thing. The number of sailing families who have good experiences far out number the few that have problems, just like solo sailors, fully crewed race boats or any one else who goes to sea. However, it seems to be the most news worthy when something goes wrong!

As parents we do what we feel is best for our families. Your feeling of safe and mine might very well be different, that does not make us wrong or irresponsible, just different.

[K Chiswell]

Sorry,
Russell's post came in while I was typing (I'm not a typist) clearly I agree with him a 110% as well

[Russell]

By the way, the word is, it was scuttled because it took on water. Its unclear the manner of how it took on water, official press releases from USN/USCG said it happened when the engine started. Which, of course, for a SAILboat, is not a huge issue, especially one in the trade winds. No way of knowing if it was a packing gland issue, coolant system issue, or what, until the Erik talks publicly about it. But he was knowledgable enough about things that I am sure we will know the whys eventually. My best guess on most likely what happened? He opted to leave with is wife and kids rather then sail the boat the rest of the way to the marquises (less knowledgable people have suggest they sail back to mexico, 900 miles to windward is further then 1400 miles downwind though!). The Navy probably made the decision to scuttle based on the idea that it took on water in X circumstance without much regard to it being a sailboat or anything being repairable. But lets face it, it was an abandoned boat at sea as soon as all parties stepped off of it. There is enough to worry about out there to hit and scuttling it when no one is left aboard is the right thing to do. If it could have been salvaged in a couple days? Sure, okay, you could make the argument, but 900 miles from the closest land (to windward) it would cost more to salvage then it was worth.

[Russell]

The success/failure thing really is the key to how the media portrays things, and then how the public portrays it.

We all remember the Sunderlands. Zac set out on an Islander 36, at 16, to become the youngest person to single hand around the world. He succeeded and the media all sang his praises, very little bad press. His sister not long after, set out to do the same, in an Open 40 (a well proven design even if less conservative then an Island 36, but actually designed for transocean sailing which the Islander was not). She failed, well, no hero then, it became about parents letting their kids do stupid things, bad parenting, etc... Where was the bad parenting comments when Zac went around the world and was hailed as amazing? While I am sure some amout of sexism played into Abbys bad press, ultimately it was about a failure vs a success. But failure is part of life and if anything Abby probably learned more from her failure then Zac did from his success. But it does not sell newspapers to say so.

What you are seeing is a media frenzy on a subject that most typical people can't relate to. Ocean sailing on anything smaller then a cruise ship is downright stupid to most people, while they drive on 6 lane highways every day with their kids. I met a couple on a 26 foot boat with two new borns, that they sailed from europe with. I met a couple with 4 kids born aboard that were on their third circumnavigation. These are two examples of dozens I have personally met. I have absolute confidence that each of these kids and all I have met are far safer and better off then their counterparts riding school busses everyday in our fancy first world country.

If they succeeded, the naysays would be calling them amazing people, but a failure makes for easy target practice. Shame. I hope they set off again, because the kids are better off for it.

[Adamhagan]

The hypocrisy that really bugs me is those that claim they should be billed for the rescue expenses. When I no longer have to pay for the plague of obesity related comorbidities and smoking related cancers I will gladly have them held accountable.

[Sea Hunt Video]

One other small clarification. Several of the early reports on this incident referred to Navy SEALs parachuting into the water to provide EMT assistance to the infant. Actually, it was USAF PJs based out of an Air Nat'l Guard unit who did that. SEALs are more "direct action" - think Maersk Alabama - 3 snipers, from fantail of a bouncing ship, 3 simultaneous kills onto a bouncing lifeboat, at more than 40 yards on Easter Sunday; or OBL ("Geronimo"). I have read/heard that PJs save your a**; SEALs kill you’re a**.

I still feel bad about the Hans Christian. I saw one at a Miami marina. She was beautiful. When I win the lottery I might just ...........................

[rorik]

I think it's stupid to take a baby on an ocean voyage. Regardless of how experienced the skipper is his having to be rescued cost us tax payers thousands and maybe a million or two! And think of the danger to the men who rescued the four of them!

This incident is being played over and over on national news and it appears that others agree with my thoughts.

One of the two owners of Edensaw Woods in Port Townsend, WA took his his wife and two kids ( 7 & 11 when they left) to New Zealand by way of Mexico, Hawaii and Tonga in a traditionally rigged 60' pinky schooner without any major unhappy events. And then they sailed a different boat back home. The whole family was richer for it.


And then there are these two families:

http://anasaziracing.blogspot.com/p/abo ... acing.html

http://www.zartmancruising.com/

Are there a a lot of people - single, married, with or without kids who call for help because of something that they should have handled themselves?
Are there a lot of people who don't properly prepare their boat or themselves?
Are there people who expect others to save them from every little discomfort?
Absolutely.
And those people need to be educated, trained and coached.
And in some cases I think they should also be handed the bill for the cost of "saving" them.
But to call all of the others who do their best to prepare properly and live life to the fullest "stupid" is just plain ignorant.

[Paul D.]

As someone who has sailed across Lake Superior three times with his son before he was six years old, and taken his brood of four on mini extended voyages, I will not criticize the family for choosing to make an extended passage in order to follow their dreams. Our job as fellow sailors is to support people who make decisions to sail in a way that works for them, giving the best advice we can - hell, that's why I rarely get much work done in the yard, cause we're all chinwagging that advice - and its usually good even if it is different. What happened is a real bummer but not a tragedy at least, and I wish them better luck in the future.

I will forever cherish those passages I took. My boys, while they don't say it to me, are proud to to have crewed and I hope sailing together will remain part of our lives. A Cape Dory is safe in harbor, but that is not what Cape Dory's are built for. Same is true for us humans I reckon. If we want to cherish some sort of experience, we got to get out there and earn it.